This is kind of a vague question but any sort of advice or pointers would be greatly appreciated. I'm a hobbyist recording musician and I really enjoy the detail work of mixing and post production on my music. I would love to some day be able to do this kind of work for not only myself but maybe other people but I'm nowhere near skilled enough to actually charge for it yet. Other than start offering to do it for free for practice which I want to start doing and continuing to practice with my own music, what else can I do to really start sharpening that skill? Right now I feel like I have a solid comprehension of how to use software like pro tools, cubase, Logic pro etc...but I still struggle making things sound professional. How do I get from where I am to where I would eventually like to be?

The way to get better is to mix. Everything and anything. To get good, don't just mix your favorite genre.... step out into unfamiliar turf.

Of course, if you rely on just the stuff you write and record, it might take a very long time.

However, there are sites online that have lots of songs in the form of stems. In other words, as individual tracks. You go there, find a project and download the tracks and mix it. Post it up on line for crits and feedback. Also.... of course, unless it includes PG tracks or other elements, it's kind of sketchy about posting it here. If you use a DAW, there's often a forum site for that DAW where you can post songs and projects for feedback. I used the Cakewalk Songs forum for that very purpose. There;s often a small cadre of highly skilled folks with good ears that can review your work and give you positive direction.

Use Google or your favorite search engine to get the names of the sites.

Good advice from Herb above.

I'll add a few ideas.

First, what you have are listed are recording and mixing tools (your DAW software). You didn't mention effects in the DAW, nor did you mention any software you may have to master. To make things "sound professional" you'll need to acquire and learn both. For example, WAVES or Izotope (Ozone) can help to make a final mix sound more polished. CD Architect can help to compare one song's sound to the next.

You should also get a commercial recording you really like of each genre you work in, and use that as the comparison for your mixes. It can be a great learning experience (and humbling) when you do A-B comparisons of your mix to that of a pro.

Learn your particular monitors, and your room, for how they color the sound. And don't forget to test your mixes on every device you can think of: boombox, iPad earbuds, car etc. plus good headphones (for stereo separation and possible phase cancellation).

Take a read through the free guide on the Izotope site about mastering.

IMHO to get good mixing and mastering you must start with good tracks. Your so-so track could mess up your mixing and mastering times as you try to correct the problem at the wrong places. Correct the problem at the source, i.e. the individual track.

Also subscribe to The Recording Revolution

https://www.recordingrevolution.com/

Graham offers great free advice on everything recording from effects, polishing tracks and mixes, etc. This is one free source that is a must have IMHO.

Listen and critically deconstruct some songs you are familiar with. Do that before you mix another song. Try to recreate it. Probably 75 % of mixing is actually arranging. Start simple.

All good advice above.

I would say the 3 most important aspects of mixing are panning, levels and using FX sends. If you can get a good grasp on these you should hear a major improvement in your mixing.

I would add watch/read anything you can find on mixing and mastering. You may find contradicting info in different places but if it seems like it could be useful give it a try. You have to find what works best for you.

I think there are 3 approaches:

1) Sound "like" somebody... by trying to imitate overall feel. Which is standard among many recording musicians.
2) Try to find "your" sound which is fairly hard... to find something original and tasteful. Sort of a "goal" to reach.
3) Experiment. I think this is the most enjoyable one, as you are not "bound" to idea of sounding certain way.

...Listen to the mix on common medium. A car, cheap speakers, headphones, to get different perspectives on same mix. (Car works very well )

P.S. I had a few people on this forum that guided me through some things.
The 2 most valuable lessons for me was: panning some instruments to L/R and avoid frequency clashes. There is a tool by Izotope called Tonal Control, which helped me a lot to get mixes under control. Still have a loooong way to go. Fun part is learning

Matt mentioned using a reference song and IMO that is critical. A reference song of the same genre, instrumentation, volume, etc. of the project you are working on is invaluable and even more so if you are very familiar with the song.

Ozone has a feature that will attempt to master your song to match the reference assuming, of course, that you have a good mix and that the songs are very similar.

I think mixing and mastering are a mashup up of art and science.

There are many conventions but few absolutes.

Bud

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. THIS is absolutely true. No amount of EQ and compression will fix a badly recorded track. AND....Be sure to tune your guitar.

Tune a guitar? How do you do that?

I play banjo. They are always somewhat out of tune. :-)

...Deb

I will try and give the Cliff notes version of what is essentially a 900 page book to answer this question. Some of it is complementary to what has been said.

The "Holy Grail" concept in mixing is to understand and master the EQ nuances and behaviors of every instrument you plan to use. There are shortcuts. For example, you can buy the "CLA" pack from Waves which has plugin-ins and presets for most instruments. And/or you can buy Neutron Elements from Izotope which will analyze your tracks and make EQ suggestions and give you presets. Neutron is good for toning and shaping, but to get the beef, you need plugins like you will find in the CLA collection to amp it up, compress, add echo, reverb, etc. Not selling CLA by Waves but you can google it and see what is in the package and read about all the plugins. That will educate you on what instrument-specific plugins will do, including those for vocals.

The point is you could spend a month on each instrument just figuring out what gear and presets you need and what you need to buy to get a great sound out of:

1. Drums
2. Bass
3. Acoustic Guitars
4. Electrics
5. Brass
6. Strings
7. Wind Instruments


All of these require VERY unique EQ'ing skills that you must master. Think of it this way: you have to master the EQ-ing of these instruments just as well as the musician has mastered playing them or your mix will sound like mud.

This will take years. But here is what I would do. I would start with this forum (if you are using PG Music products) and pick one month to focus on say, acoustic guitars.

Research the art of EQ-ing an acoustic in a mix. See what you have in your pantry. Add what you don't have. You may find that it is easier to spend $69 on a one-stop CLA package than hunt forever and buy 500 VSTs. (Like I am one to talk.)

Anyway, after you think you have a good acoustic sound, put the song out here for a listen and ask for suggestions specific to the the acoustic. Let people be blunt. Take all you have learned and keep working until you are an acoustic Eqing genius.

Then move on to another instrument. Plan to spend a year mastering the art of getting a good sound out of each one.

The rest is easy.

Drums are usually loudest, bass hugs the drum line, other instruments panned and slightly down, vocals about 1 to 1.5 dBs over top of the bed. DO NOT rely on speakers. Learn to trust your RMS and loudness meters. Your ears will be shot after an hour of mixing but meters always know what's going on.

When it is done, however, put on a good set of headphones and trust your EARS for the final tweaks. When it sounds like butter and honey you are done. When you have a great mix you will know it.

Leave yourself plenty of headroom, and polish it off with a mastering plugin like Ozone on the gentler settings.

Again, this takes several hours of study a day for about a year and a LOT of research.

But there are lots of folks here who know what they are doing who can help you out.

I still say most of mixing starts with the arrangement.

Here's an old thread I started 2 years ago on critically listening to a known song, and making extensive notes on arrangement and production (and ultimately mixing).

This underlines my point about 'getting good at mixing' first involves understanding of arrangement. All points about making good track recordings above do still apply, but unless you can arrange the mix, you will likely not end up with professional sounding recordings.


It's Tom Petty's "Free Fallin'"

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=53620&Number=373938#Post373938

Rock Star,

This is a very good spreadsheet, and I saved it when you first sent it out. Really good.

In the 900 page book I was speaking of, this might fall under a chapter on "arrangement."

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments.

Narrowing things down to the "how do we take what we have arranged and make it sound (sonically) better" I think it is important to master the Eq-ing skills required of every instrument, because the skills (and tools) can be so vastly different.

There are so many things involved in mixing it is hard to answer the original question succinctly. It is kind of like asking: how do you build a house.

However, one common denominator of bad sounding mixes I have noticed is that the individual instruments are Eq-ed poorly. Attention may have been paid to the levels and panning and so forth, but not the SOUND of the instruments. Properly Eq-ed individual instruments = professional dynamic range specs for the final mix which makes it possible to master. If you do not take these steps your final mix cannot be mastered. There will be no hope.

A bad acoustic guitar EQ for example, will make me turn off a song in 2 seconds. I can't listen.

YMMV.

For mastering..... Buy Ozone.

Problem solved.

You still need to learn to mix the tracks but that's probably the easier part of answering your question.

I like Ozone for mastering and Neutron for getting tracks ready. Then for a rough guide the Visual Mixer that comes with Neutron Standard or Advanced which I use as the first plugin in the mastering chain. But as David gets to it all starts with the arrangement and recorded tracks. That comes from the writing and overall thought.

I guess to get a really good mastered track every step from the initial thought of a song needs to be as good as you can get it. Then at some point one has to say “yep that’s good, I’ll put it away now” that is the hardest part.

Tony

Speaking of which, I came across this recently. I always liked Joe Walsh's music, but never realized he had such a heart. Here's Joe on setting up the Gibson Les Paul.

Joe Walsh Tutorial on Guitar Setup

A lot of great thoughts here. David, you said to make sure the drums are the loudest thing in the mix. Do you think it has always been that way or do you say that because it's the current style for radio-ready?

For jazz, I sure wouldn't make drums the loudest thing. But I do start mixes with drums, then bass. Get those right then add other instruments.

Correct, for jazz, not.

2B,

Let me correct myself, as Matt pointed out in jazz, drums are not the loudest.

I am using a generality that applies to rock and pop if there ARE drums. Yes it is about radio ready, but it also about sound in general and the phenomenon of perceived loudness which I will get to it just a bit. (Fingers on a chalkboard are a good example of perceived loudness. They may not actually be that loud but boy do they sound loud, and boy are they as annoying as all get out.)

You start with drums and move them to the loudest level you would get to in your head room, let's say that is -9 dB.

The drum track if you have a single one from Real Tracks (though I always triple the Drum Real Tracks and add different EQs to each track) or the DRUM BUS if you have many different drum tracks (kick, snare, etc.) will fluctuate from about -12 to -9 as the drums are hitting. (Or something in that range.)

-9 is considered your "crest". This is more of a level thing than a "loudness thing" but I was using loudness as a relative term. Because guitars are more "cutting" their levels have to be lower by a hair than the drums. This gets into the science of "perceived loudness." Technically they may not "be" louder but they will "sound" louder if you are not careful.

Now you want to to nudge the bass up until it just hugs the drum line at -9 but is not louder than the drums or it will sound wrong. We are talking fractions of a dB here. You have have to use a bass-specific EQ and compressor with bass specific presets or the bass will bleed over on the bottom and make things sound mushy. You have to experiment. The bass and drums are by far the most important elements of any song that has them, except for the vocals. Don't believe me? Go listen to Carolina In My Mind by James Taylor and tell me what the two loudest instruments are. You may be surprised.

You have to experiment with the other instruments, but generally they will be -.3dB to .-.5dB lower than the drums or people will say "all I can is guitar and where did the drums go!"

THEN, on vocals, GENERALLY speaking, you want the vocals to be about 1 dB to 1.5 dB higher than all the instruments (called the "bed), though you have to ride the fader.

When I mix all my other instruments (drums included) I am "in the green" on my master fader meter at about -9 to - 8 dB.

By this I mean that whenever I get to the almost final mix, I adjust the master bus fader until the bed minus vocals is mostly green and somewhere between -9 and - 7 db with just a hint of orange on the right hand meter strip on the master bus that shows actual dB levels.

When the vocals come in, I want to see that they add about 1.5 dB (or as high as 2 dB at times) to the mix which will give me what looks like a little orange "cap" on the mix but I will have plenty of headroom because I am far from 0 dB. (The color scheme I am referring to is in Sonar, but all DAWS have some sort of color scheme for DB level levels on the master.)

Now, I will listen and tweak until it sounds about perfect.

Using meters, I am looking for these numbers:

About 12 LUFS

about 12 RMS

about 10 to 9 Dynamic range.

If I see these number and I know my vocals are on top because I can see them, and I ride that fader to keep them consistently higher than the bed, I know I am ready to mix down.

Once you have the mix, you will have plenty of room to boost it in the mastering process without getting distortion. This is critical. If you have already made it as loud as you can before you master, your song will be ear-splitting and no one will want to listen to it.

If you listen to my latest song Judgment day, I used exactly this process to get that sound which Joe at PG Music called "good timbre."

It is a complex mix because there are three electrics coming out of an amp, and three acoustic parts, plus piano, vocals and strings.

But I used exactly the method I just described and I believe the separation of the instruments is good and the sound is clear.

What I just described is exactly how I did it.

Hope that helps.

https://soundcloud.com/david-snyder-gigs2/judgment-day

How do you do a Steve Vai song?

God that is funny!!!!

Ed,

That Joe Walsh video is GREAT! What a nice tutorial about guitar set up. Entertaining as all get out too.

Thanks for taking time to share the link with us.

Just realized that the original post in this thread was the poster’s only post

Sure thing, Jim. He goes thru it for demonstration purposes.
When lengthening a string, be sure to release the tension first to avoid strain on the adjustment screw. Just sayin'

Thanks, David. This helps a lot and makes sense.

2b

Thanks for saying thanks, 2B.

It takes a lot of time to respond to a poster's original question with specific technical instructions on how to do what the OP was looking to do (to the best of one's knowledge.)

That is really nice etiquette on your part and I appreciate it. It is that type of etiquette that makes people willing to help.

Happy Holidays.