While I have heard good things here about Real Band...it doesn't appear in any of the online reviews for DAW's.

My main question is this:

How does Real BAnd compare to something like Ableton Live?

RealBand is a free program by PG Music bundled with Band-in-a-Box. It reads the song files produced by BIAB. No other DAW to my knowledge does that directly; you have to transfer the audio or MIDI tracks to the DAW. RealBand allows you to regenerate part of a track, something that I believe does not yet exist in BIAB.

The commercial DAWS out there like Ableton Live have more features (and thus are far more complex). Many have their own instrument sound libraries, and differ in the plugins available.

Many of us here use BIAB, RealBand, a different DAW, a stereo sound editor, a CD burning program, a music notation editor, etc. in the production of a song.

Thanks Matt.

Even with the VST adapter for another DAW you can't do that without ReadBand?

Also, if RealBand is a DAW...why do you use another one with it? Or are you just using RealBand to read the song files from BIAB.

Not speaking for Matt, but my own reasoning below

Many musician/recording environments do not have access to BiaB/RB.
If I send a Reaper/Sonar file they can download the app needed to open the file if necessary. That's one reason. Most studios can open a Reaper file.
Also
Sometimes I move a project to another DAW near the end of my workflow simply for a change of pace, other times to try something new. Sometimes just working in a different DAW makes you look at things a little differently (it can help when you feel like a song is 'in a rut' and needs *something*) ..


As for your original question:
Say I have my basic song done in BiaB (chords/tempo and initial style)
I can open it in RB.
My first step is to always 'Make all BB tracks regular tracks'
This way they behave like a track in your DAW, but still can be regenerated if desired, in whole or in part. They will not keep autogenerating; you have to tell RB to specifically generate them from then on. This way there are no surprises and you generate/regenerate each one in whole or sections until you are happy with it and then it 'sticks'. Kind of like being Frozen in BB, but more flexible.

Say I like what I have so far, but I want the guitar to change on a certain section to a different realtrack, so the whole feel of the song changes ..
I can generate that section on one of the unused 40 available tracks and tinker with it without worrying about any existing tracks.
I can also Insert 4 bars and Regenerate just those four bars on any given track(s)
I can also record any of my own Audio tracks or MIDI tracks using other of the 48 available.

I can also use FX,Synths, etc much like other DAWs.

When done, if I want something another DAW offers, I can easily drag the tracks as MIDI or Audio to other DAWs.
I use it because it is much more powerful/flexible than BiaB, though that gap changes every year.
Plus I cut my teeth on Powertracks, so the RB workflow and UI is comfortable for me as a DAW.

I can do most of what I want in RB, so I do so in order to retain the generating capabilities.
When/if I need to go to another DAW, either for me or someone else, it's easy to do.

The only people who use Realband are owners of BIAB. I think it is safe to say no one who wants/needs a DAW would choose Realband. It is much more limited than most modern DAWs. In my opinion it is quite clunky and sluggish with an old GUI.

It does have the unique ability to work with RealTracks BUT if you carefully craft your song in BIAB, using features like bar settings and freezing tracks, you are in for an unpleasant surprise when you open those songs in Realband. Realband will open your BIAB song but all those perfect frozen tracks will be lost and be regenerated in Realband.

To be fair I gave up on Realband long ago. So maybe they have fixed these issues recently. If so I'd give it another chance! But if it still works like it used to I'll pass!

Many DAWs are cross platform between Windows and Mac. Some DAWs also work on Linux. RealBand is a Windows only program so Band-in-a-Box for Mac users can not use the program. So the audience for the program is fairly small.

RealBand was first released after Band-in-a-Box was a mature product and existing users developed a Band-in-a-Box \ DAW workflow they were comfortable with. This reduces the audience for the program even more.

Firstly, DAWs are standalone programs. You can't buy RB as a standalone program so that's why it's never reviewed. Its a partner program to BIAB that's bundled with it. Like rharv i learnt on BIAB and Powertracks so my workflow was established years ago. I do the minimum necessary in BIAB to create a track I like. Then i move over to RB where i have much greater control. JohnJohnJohn's point about RB 'losing' work you've done in BIAB is a good one. That's why i go to RB as fast as possible. i work there not in BIAB. it's easier and i have much more control and changes 'stick'.

so far i've not come up against a limitation in RB that means i can't do what i want to produce a finished song the way i like. i mainly need folk, country and pop songs and most of my stuff is straightforward as i would have played with a small band. i've more years than i care to remember playing in small bands with some success. as an advertising agency producer i've supervised many many recordings in big studios for a national broadcast. but i have no illusions that i'm an expert of the calibre some of our forum members are. i rarely need anything other than major,minor or seventh chords. maybe a slash chord now and then to give me a bass line.

if RB and BIAB were a car, they'd take you to the shops day to day, take you on a long drive comfortably and hold all the family's luggage. DAW's are ferraris in comparison. are you sure you need everything an all singing all dancing DAW will do? i think you are trying to produce backing tracks to play along to which is not a difficult task in BIAB and RB and BIAB often shows it jazz based roots which are harmonically and melodically more complex than the stuff i use it for.

so why not stick to BIAB and RB until you run up against something you can't do? if you decide you need a DAW, Cakewalk is free and there's a free trial of Reaper.

and going back to cars, my wife made me swap my beloved high performance two plus two for a family estate when our daughter was born. i didn't really miss it......................

I very rarely use RB but I have always said if you don't have a favorite DAW then use RB for the exact same reasons as you stated.



I had to give up my '68 Mustang with 4 on the floor, a Holley 4 barrel carb, 411 gears, etc, for a station wagon! I miss my Mustang.

Before you think of buying Ableton Live I would look at Reaper, you can use ReaTrak to integrate Biab or BBPlugin.
You can get Reaper to do just about anything you like as it has scripting.

There would be a lot of support here for integration of BIAB with Reaper (especially by Pipeline). Quite a bit for Cakewalk and some for Stidio One and various others. I don’t happen to recall anyone here who uses Ableton Live, although it’s supposed to be quite capable, as are the others mentioned.

The main thing here is to look at what Ableton ISN"T.

Here's an analogy. When you watch an NHL game, in 5 minutes you forget that you are watching the greatest skaters in the world, because the hitting, passing, shooting and all make the skating subliminal.

What gets lost in Real Band is the song generation. Once the song generation is done, that part of the game (the skating) becomes subliminal.

And that's what Ableton doesn't do. "Skate." Ableton doesn't generate complete backing tracks. The DAW in Real Band is there mainly as a convenience and a value add to the song generation program. It was really never meant to be "Pro Tools Lite" or anything. Remember, you don't pay extra for it. It's just there. Using the drop feature, where you just rag each track to your DAW of choice, you are pretty much done with Real Band when the generating is done.

Thanks everyone. You've given me a lot to think about.

I guess it depends on the definition of "backing tracks". By strict definition that's what I am looking for. But I don't want boring, uninteresting backing tracks. I want something that, along with myself makes more a complete musical experience.

I have been also considering performing live with whatever I end up using. So I don't know if Reaper or Calkwalk can handle that?

When I really think about it...my music may lend itself to looping, layering, etc. I envision longer improvised sections. Something more interesting than the straightahead jazz I've done in the past, yet not as formulaic as smooth jazz. And not as far out sounding as electronic music. Probably more through-composed than typical song form.

I'm sure I'll have a better idea after I really dig in to BIAB.

Re: skating metaphor. It sounds like you are saying that the real art happens in BIAB and everything beyond that is frosting on the cake?

I like the idea of having a Ferarri...if only I knew how to drive it.

You need to first spend time with BIAB. A lot of this will become clearer.

I gave up my 1994 Mustang for a newer VW Golf! Funny enough, it was a good trade - the Golf was equally fast, given the weight difference. Peppy little car, and trunk space!

performing live with any laptop or pc is a risk. i know - i've done it. turn your backing tracks into mp3s. play them from an ipod or a phone direct into the PA. the sound quality will be fine for live performance and you can have a backup in case of mechanical failure by buying a second ipod off ebay.

as Matt says, before you invest in any other software, get to know what BIAB and RB can do.

<< I guess it depends on the definition of "backing tracks". By strict definition that's what I am looking for. But I don't want boring, uninteresting backing tracks. I want something that, along with myself makes more a complete musical experience. >>

If that's the case, BIAB is All you need. BIAB will give you as many:
. Instruments as you will ever want to use in a song.
. As many tracks as you will ever want to use in a song.
. Automatically provide smooth transitions between instruments changing out with each other.
. Automatically create professional grade cross-fades.
. Automatically give professional grade intro's and ending's.
. With 'Song Medley', allow you to quickly and easily create medleys from BIAB song projects.
. Use 'Conductor' to do longer improvised sections. Something more interesting than the straightahead jazz you've done
in the past.
. Use 'soundtrack' to have any BIAB song play to an exact length.
. Use 'Jukebox' to create BIAB song playlists.
. BIAB can record Audio.
. BIAB can record MIDI.
. BIAB can edit Audio.
. BIAB can edit Midi.
. BIAB can notate Audio and Midi.
. BIAB can show tabs.
. BIAB can play loops and samples.
. BIAB can loop sections of songs.
. BIAB can modify Styles and use Part Markers to interchange regular styles or Multi Styles at any bar of a song.
. BIAB can layer instruments for thickening, panning, doubling, harmonies and to play in sequence or simultaneously.
. BIAB has a harmonizer feature.
. BIAB can isolate and import the medley track from a MIDI file.
. BIAB can create and read Karaoke files.
. BIAB in newer versions can create Multi Riffs of a section or a whole track.
. BIAB can detect, identify and import chords from a MIDI file.
. BIAB can detect, identify and import chords from an Audio file.
. BIAB can time stretch and pitch correct audio.
. BIAB has good plug-ins.
. BIAB works with XML and ABC notation.
. BIAB has a feature to accept user made RealTracks. Homemade audio that works like BIAB RealTracks.
. BIAB has a feature to accept user made Performance Tracks. Custom Tracks for a specific song project.
. BIAB has custom melodist and soloist audio and midi creation tools.
. BIAB has a built-in email feature allowing collaboration between users sharing SGU files, RealTracks, Styles and
more.

I think that's a pretty good list of tasks BIAB does before one ever has to think of moving a project to a DAW. The list gets even longer when it's considered BIAB functions as a multi track recorder and using multi track techniques and procedures expands BIAB capabilities enormously.

Users can construct very complex and dense arrangements that replicate what a DAW will produce and have an indistinguishable end product between the two. Just saying, BIAB can provide you as complete a musical experience that you can imagine.

That is an awesome list you made Charlie.
Now I have a lot more homework to do because I don't know how to do all of those things in BIAB.
Something to put on my list for "Getting Better in 2021".
Thank you very much!!!!!

Thanks Charlie. Very helpful.