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Posted By: furry Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/13/18 07:36 PM
Sound has been bloody rubbish since windows update on Wednesday. It's been bitty and biab keeps changing the settings every time I use it. It's become a blasted nightmare. Anyone got any ideas for help ? I've reinstalled the drivers for my Behringer interface, and tried increasing buffer settings. Mkaes no difference.
Posted By: Teunis Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/13/18 07:48 PM
Nasty audio after a Windows update seems to be quite common. I have found that uninstalling the device driver, rebooting you PC with the sound card plugged in will force the driver to be reinstalled. Since doing this my sound has been much better. Albeit BIAB sometimes stops it renders fine. Sonar also has more audio dropouts than it used to but that could be me I have reworked most of my backing files since the update of Windows and BB 2018.

For what it is worth, Tony
For those of us in the USA, could you define the sound of 'bloody rubbish' and 'bitty'? Seriously, it might help.

Did you check your Windows settings for bit and sample rate, to make them 16/44.1 ?
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/13/18 07:50 PM
Yeah Tony, I DID uninstall & re-install my interface drivers. Everything still sucks
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/13/18 07:52 PM
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
For those of us in the USA, could you define the sound of 'bloody rubbish' and 'bitty'? Seriously, it might help.

Did you check your Windows settings for bit and sample rate, to make them 16/44.1 ?




Yep Bitty for sure.......I've increased the sample rates and the buffer rate. Same problem
Posted By: Noel96 Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/13/18 08:08 PM
Graham,

Have you shut down your computer and restarted it? Logging off is not usually enough where drivers are involved.

Regards,
Noel
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/13/18 08:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Noel96
Graham,

Have you shut down your computer and restarted it? Logging off is not usually enough where drivers are involved.

Regards,
Noel




Yep about 4 or five times
Posted By: MarioD Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/13/18 10:13 PM
Graham, have you checked your audio in the device manager. I have a Roland Octa-Capture and if it isn't on during the Window's update Ms turns on my on-board RealTek audio. That can screw up audio. I have to go in and turn them off.

As soon as Win 10 starts to update turn on your printer and external audio interface. This way Win 10 knows what you have. As you know MS wants it done their way and if these aren't turned on Win 10 will set things up for you, regardless if you want them to or not.
I meant, can you tell me what bloody rubbish and bitty sounds like?
Posted By: Teunis Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/13/18 11:08 PM
Hey Mario, you may have hit on something there. I always ensure all devices connected to the PC are on when I do major updates I just checked my audio devices on the PC and sure enough both the Roland Quad capture and the onboard card were on. I just turned off the onboard card. I have never bothered checking that before. I used to always have the onboard card turned of in BIOS but I guess this time I have not. Thanks again.

Tony
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/14/18 11:35 AM
Originally Posted By: MarioD
Graham, have you checked your audio in the device manager. I have a Roland Octa-Capture and if it isn't on during the Window's update Ms turns on my on-board RealTek audio. That can screw up audio. I have to go in and turn them off.

As soon as Win 10 starts to update turn on your printer and external audio interface. This way Win 10 knows what you have. As you know MS wants it done their way and if these aren't turned on Win 10 will set things up for you, regardless if you want them to or not.




Yep divice shows as behringer, and it's on even before I boot the PC
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/14/18 11:38 AM
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I meant, can you tell me what bloody rubbish and bitty sounds like?



Crackly and it stutters it the best way I can describe it.
Biab also changes from ASIO to WAS every time I start it up
Sounds similar to a problem I had a while ago with my focusrite interface.

Is the behringer a USB interface?

If so, try this: After Windows has booted up completely and before you try and play any audio, unplug the USB cable from the behringer and plug it back in again.

That will force a reload of the drivers. Does that help?
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/14/18 01:12 PM
It IS USB ! And will try that thanks
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/14/18 01:18 PM
Seems to be much better after uninstalling that ruddy update. I've gone into windows services and stopped the updates. Really sick of them

I have said this before, but I will say it again, because I think it is relevant and both funny or sad, not sure which.

One of my neighbors is like a surrogate grandpa and built mainframes at IBM way back in the day. I mean, the original day. He is my computer guy and tells me he can build a PC in his sleep blindfolded--and he can. He has all of my stuff backed up too.

He told me that Windows 7 is a vastly superior operating system to Windows 10 and that Windows 10 is the equivalent of a smart phone operating system, side by side.

I have been told by others that the switch was made so that you will gradually no longer own your own computer, or any of your software, and will have control over nothing, except the money you spend on monthly licenses and such, of which they will get a cut of course. And everything will be moving to the cloud, where they will have complete control over it and access to it.

Not sure if this is right or not, but I have heard some very interesting things from my surrogate grandpa and he does seem to know his way around a computer blindfolded pretty good--and he did build those mainframes.

I love old school guys like that.
Posted By: MarioD Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/14/18 05:02 PM
David, Win 10 is causing more people to change to either Linux or Macs. I can't go the Linux route because my music software will not run on it. But I am beginning to think about a Mac.
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/14/18 06:07 PM
You've got it David, trouble is MACs are so bloody expensive over here. No way I could afford one
Posted By: Teunis Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/14/18 06:28 PM
Graham, as nasty as some of the updates have become to stop them is dangerous. There are worse nasties the updates overcome. The issue is some clown working for Windows thinks he understands what the rest of the world wants rather than giving folk the choice.

Like it or not keeping a PC updated with both operating system, other software and virus detection is important.

Tony
Posted By: jazzmammal Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/15/18 01:15 AM
Guys, I really, really hate to be a big ole wet blanket but why don't I EVER get stuff like this happening to me? Seriously I'm feeling like the Lone Stranger here.

It's always just a few guys who post about these so called update problems. I say "so called" with all due respect. Where is everybody else? I mean really, where are they? I don't doubt a few are having these problems, the issue is why? Since it isn't common the only two answers that makes sense is simple user error or someone who messes with their system too much.

Graham, I'm sorry you're having these issues but you've been on these forums long enough. Matt asked you twice to define your terms and to give us details and we got squat from you. Nobody can help without detailed information including posting some screenshots showing your various config screens including the Windows ones. Without that, we're shooting in the dark and it's a waste of time.

MS probably has around 3-400 MILLION Win 10 instals. Where is the outcry? If it was only 1% who have these chronic issues do you guys realize that is 3-4 MILLION users? This would be all over the internet and all over the news. MS would be issuing apologies and press releases. It ain't there folks.

As for someone saying MS and all the tech giants are angling to control everybody's lives, exactly how can that happen anyway? Hack my bank accounts and credit cards? As long as I log in every few days to check those accounts the bank guarantees every penny so I could care less. Hack my personal info? I guarantee you yours and my info have been exposed multiple times already. All my passwords are humoungous monstrosities controlled by a password manager. Again, what are we talking about here? Everything's in the cloud? So what?

Bob
Posted By: Teunis Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/15/18 01:46 AM
Hi Bob, I have two PCs both running Windows 10 with the last update to Win 10 1709 one PC a 32 bit laptop seems fine but I do less with it. The other a 64 bit PC I use setup the music files I use on the laptop. I did have issues with stuttering etc. it improved after reloading drivers. The other day Mario mentioned that Windows may restart the onboard audio driver which was supposedly turned off in my case. I checked and both the onboard and usb devices were turned on. This was not something I expected nor requested and to my knowledge the first time this has happened. Since shutting the extra device driver things in my case have been fine. I do put this down to updates. Updates not just for security but added software that allow me to do stuff I don't want in the first place.

Tony
I wouldn’t be too hard. I understood his sound to be squirrelly and blurred.
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/15/18 10:10 AM
It's really odd, as sometimes I can use my M-Audio Keyrig in biab and other times it's dead. Wonder could the keyboard be on its' way out ? IT IS showing up in the biab set up dialog.
I have the same problem using the reason vst synth as well AND east west play
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/15/18 10:21 AM
The keyboard is at least 6 years old and has had a lot of use. I've re-installed the drivers, no change, so next step is to replace the usb cable. If that fails, time for a new one
Graham, with such a nebulous problem, it is hard to help. Could we drop back a step and have you tell us EVERYTHING about your computer and setup? Hardware and software. Also summarize whatever problems you have recently experienced, as clearly as possible. Then perhaps something will stand out.
Johnny cash wrote a song about the guy who built a car by stealing parts from the plant over the course of his time working there. That's pretty much where we are in the era of home computers.

My intention now is to keep my stuff in the woodshed and not connect to the internet. simply make the best of what I have bought. I did use an android phone tethered to the pc when downloading some notation, and that avoided any windows upgrading quite nicely.

By the time the guarantee runs out on the new PC (2 years) I might have got to grips with biab 2017, propeller head and such and review where I am. But I wish I had kept some of my old kit because I could still be using it far more effectively. I will try to resist that all enticing download, as it often brings a whole lot more than you expect.
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/15/18 01:03 PM
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Graham, with such a nebulous problem, it is hard to help. Could we drop back a step and have you tell us EVERYTHING about your computer and setup? Hardware and software. Also summarize whatever problems you have recently experienced, as clearly as possible. Then perhaps something will stand out.


Will; get back tomorrow re this as I'm out tonight.
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/15/18 01:04 PM
Originally Posted By: duncanwhyte
Johnny cash wrote a song about the guy who built a car by stealing parts from the plant over the course of his time working there. That's pretty much where we are in the era of home computers.

My intention now is to keep my stuff in the woodshed and not connect to the internet. simply make the best of what I have bought. I did use an android phone tethered to the pc when downloading some notation, and that avoided any windows upgrading quite nicely.

By the time the guarantee runs out on the new PC (2 years) I might have got to grips with biab 2017, propeller head and such and review where I am. But I wish I had kept some of my old kit because I could still be using it far more effectively. I will try to resist that all enticing download, as it often brings a whole lot more than you expect.



Aye Duncan, I LOVE reason. Some wonderful sounds even on the old one I have reason 3 !!
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/15/18 01:47 PM
I reckon it must be the keyboard as it was working earlier. Went out for a while and not a peep from it again.
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/16/18 06:55 AM
Not the keyboard, plays perfectly with reason, so it looks like eaither band in a box or windows drivers ?
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/16/18 08:06 PM
Another thing I've noticed, on asio and mme there's a fair latency between hitting the note and the sound. Never had that till recently either
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/16/18 08:33 PM
Some more info, playback seems to be fine even on the east west play. Biggest issue just now is using the keyboard, which is a USB M-Audio Keyrig49. As I pointed out, the weird thing is that it'll play perfectly through reason 3.
Posted By: rharv Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/16/18 09:09 PM
What drivers is Reason using for the keyboard (MIDI)?

Did PGMusic products maybe revert to MIDI Mapper or something?
Can you make them match?
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/17/18 06:13 AM
Behringer U-PHORIA UMC204HD Drivers. Biab DOES revert back to midi mapper every time I restart the programme. I have to go into options each time. I tried uninstalling the latest windows update and stopping the downloads from computer management, but it downloaded itself again straight afterwards. Everything worked well after the uninstall so it IS a windows problem so how in the hell do I sort it ?
Posted By: Noel96 Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/17/18 06:25 AM
Graham,

If BIAB is not remembering your settings, it sounds like you don't run it in Administrator Mode.

To set administrator mode, rightclick on the startup shortcut, select properties, then, under the COMPATIBILITY TAB, activate the "Run as as admin" option.

BIAB and RB need to be run as administrator. (This is completely different from you logging into Windows as the admin of your computer when you start it up.)

Noel
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/17/18 08:09 AM
Thanks Noel will try that tip
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/17/18 09:58 AM
Did all you suggested Noel and it didn't work. No keyboard sound at all in biab, every other programme works fine
Posted By: MarioD Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/17/18 11:31 AM
Graham, have you DLed the latest drivers from Behringer and installed them via their instructions. Be sure to delete the old drivers first. Note that some companies want the unit connected via USB while others do not.

Also has their been a firmware update to it?

I'm grabbing at straws here.
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/17/18 11:39 AM
Yep have the latest drivers and as far as I know the latest frmware. HAVE uninstalled & reinstalled the drivers. IT DOES seem to be a biab issue
Your post said Windows was the problem. Now it’s BIAB. Graham, I’m not spending any more time on this unless we have a sound recording of the problem, lists or screenshots of your BIAB sound settings, and a complete description of your computer.
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/17/18 02:21 PM
Matt I apologise, at first I thought it WAS windows, but I've sinc enarrowed it down to biab.
I can't take any recordings as I can't get sound into the keyboard using biab. Reason 3 and east west play are fine. My system......

Windows 10 Home (x64) Version 1607
3.30 gigahertz Intel Core i5-6600
256 kilobyte primary memory cache
1024 kilobyte secondary memory cache
6144 kilobyte tertiary memory cache
64-bit ready
Multi-core (4 total)
2484.88 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
1584.54 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

TSSTcorp CDDVDW SH-224FB [Optical drive]




Maxtor OneTouch USB Device [Hard drive] (500.11 GB) -- drive 2, s/n 2HA1ZKPD
SanDisk SD8SBAT128G1122 (128.04 GB) -- drive 0, s/n 152755401914, rev Z2201000, SMART Status: Healthy
Seagate M3 Portable SCSI Disk Device (1000.20 GB) -- drive 3, s/n 18707E0307000077
ST1000DM003-1SB10C [Hard drive] (1000.20 GB) -- drive 1, s/n Z9A0M4Z9, rev CC43, SMART Status: Healthy
BEHRINGER usb UMC204HD 192k interface
M-Audio keyrig 49 usb keyboard

Bose pc speakers
This is very helpful. I had no idea you were using SampleTank. Users of SampleTank, can you assist here?

Graham, can you make a recording of the problem?
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/17/18 02:56 PM
Sorry Matt, I can't as I've no sound from biab to the keyboard. I also use reason and east west play. They're both fine as stand alones but not in biab
But did you see in your screenshot that you have SampleTank loaded in BIAB?
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/17/18 03:54 PM
Yeah that's what I normally use as a base
Posted By: MarioD Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/17/18 05:11 PM
Originally Posted By: furry
Sorry Matt, I can't as I've no sound from biab to the keyboard. I also use reason and east west play. They're both fine as stand alones but not in biab


I think the "I've no sound from biab to the keyboard" is a typo. I think you meant to your Behringer as the keyboard has not sounds, i.e. it is a MIDI controller.

Have you checked your channels? Maybe something is messed up there, especially with the thru channel. It sounds like a patching problem, that is if BiaB is OK. Maybe you got a bad BiaB DL, CD, or HD?
Posted By: Noel96 Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/17/18 05:34 PM
Graham,

You won't easily get any sound through your keyboard if you are using Sampletank. It's not a general midi synth.

Each time you load BIAB, you need to load a sound in Sampletank on the same channel as the thru channel so that the keyboard has something to work with (channel 5). Do you do this? Sampletank will not do it by itself. If you don't set this up with each start-up of BIAB, it's not a surprise that you keyboard doesn't work.

For testing purposes this is what you need to do...

1. change your VSTi/DXi synth to Coyote WT

2. set MIDI out to Microsoft GS Wavetable

3. under "Audio | Audio Driver/Settings" set the driver to MME

Once you have BIAB working with the above settings, then you can start changing them one by one so as to work out which step creates the issues you're experiencing.

Regards,
Noel
Regards,
Noel

Attached picture furry setup 1.JPG
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/17/18 06:47 PM
Yep usually ch 1 for the keyboard to get sound from any of the soft synths
Posted By: Scott C Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/17/18 07:02 PM
Originally Posted By: David Snyder

I have said this before, but I will say it again, because I think it is relevant and both funny or sad, not sure which.

One of my neighbors is like a surrogate grandpa and built mainframes at IBM way back in the day. I mean, the original day. He is my computer guy and tells me he can build a PC in his sleep blindfolded--and he can. He has all of my stuff backed up too.

He told me that Windows 7 is a vastly superior operating system to Windows 10 and that Windows 10 is the equivalent of a smart phone operating system, side by side.

I have been told by others that the switch was made so that you will gradually no longer own your own computer, or any of your software, and will have control over nothing, except the money you spend on monthly licenses and such, of which they will get a cut of course. And everything will be moving to the cloud, where they will have complete control over it and access to it.

Not sure if this is right or not, but I have heard some very interesting things from my surrogate grandpa and he does seem to know his way around a computer blindfolded pretty good--and he did build those mainframes.

I love old school guys like that.


David I am a IT Manager for an oil services company here in Edmonton and have been working with computers since 1979. I totally agree with what your neighbour said. Windows is moving to a subscription based "update" process to ensure a steady cash flow. Most software companies are doing this as will be the norm in the future. It is also however not a good idea to stop the patches as there are so many Zero Day viruses coming out each day and these are not script kiddies. This is organized crime behind them.. Our current hardware is going to be left behind fast as far as the drivers go as the hardware manufacturers really want to sell you new equipment as well. It is a good idea to backup your music on an external hardrive or off site.
Posted By: Teunis Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/17/18 09:35 PM
ScottC said "It is also however not a good idea to stop the patches as there are so many Zero Day viruses coming out each day and these are not script kiddies. This is organized crime behind them.."

Well said but sadly I feel this is lost on a lot of people.

Tony
Posted By: jazzmammal Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/18/18 03:36 PM
Oh yeah. I've called them the head in the sand "if it ain't broke, don't fix it crowd". Some old cliché's are still true but not this one when it comes to computers.

There's another thread here in the S.O.S forum talking about computer security, the best AV software to use and other techniques. I'm a tax pro and need to do 24 hours of continuing ed every year for my license. Every year there are courses in this because of client tax data that must be protected. I go to an annual seminar in Vegas and part of it is a talk by an IRS CID person talking about the "dark web" and investigations they've been involved in.

I'm not an expert in this area, I'm just an educated end user but here's what I'm told:

1. USE WIN10 because it's much more secure than older versions. Also, newer CPU's are more secure than older ones. I don't want to hear all the talk about how you can patch 7 or Vista or XP. If the system is online, this is what pro's in the field tell me. If you're happy with an antique 13 year old XP machine that never goes online, fine.

2. DO THE AUTOMATIC UPDATES. If it happens to occasionally mess with something you're doing just deal with it. It's not that hard.

3. NEVER use easy to hack passwords for ANYTHING. I use Avast Premier which includes their password manager. It will analyze all your passwords and give you a weak, good, strong or very strong score. Some of my very clever 10-12 character passwords I was quite proud of scored weak while others were strong. You gotta pay attention to this stuff.

4. DON'T BELIEVE that Mac's are somehow immune. The only reason they've been relatively safer than Windows is market share. The hackers go after volume but Apples market share has been growing so the hackers are paying more attention to Macs now. It's just as easy to hack the Mac OS as it is Windows.

FWIW.

Bob
Posted By: MarioD Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/18/18 04:02 PM
Bob, I agree. On #2 I took a big hit by not updating my Win 10 music computer for over a year, i.e. it was off-line. I now have to go on-line to update a lot of software and updating Win 10 was a nightmare. Everything is now under control.

But as you mentioned "If it happens to occasionally mess with something you're doing just deal with it. It's not that hard" is what a lot of us are complaining about. I am in charge of six Win 10 computer here not counting my music computer, and I have had to fix broken audio drivers, printer drivers, rearranged icons and managed USB ports. None of these computers have been tweaked in any way; they are as MS put them. I lot of people around here are complaining about this also.

About #4 I have a friend who dumped PCs and went to a Mac because he was tired of messing with Win 10. After he transferred all of his data he got attacked and lost everything. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence when in fact it rarely is.

{edit} replaced b*tch*ng with complaining. Note the eyes have it!
The Windows stuff makes an interesting Off-topic discussion, but let’s not clutter up trying to help Graham.
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/19/18 08:47 AM
I don't mind Matt. There was a HUGE 4gb update last night ( windows 10 creator ) PC took ages to boot up this morning too
I’m glad you don’t mind. This is good stuff about Windows, but people won’t see it here. And it makes it harder to wade through the thread and fix your problem. But if you’re happy, that’s fine.
Posted By: MarioD Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/19/18 11:01 AM
I apologize for my part. I'm one of those guys that sees a message and responds to it without even thinking about what forum I am in. I will try to mend my ways but just remember I am old and learning new tricks takes a lot longer then a puppy does when they learn new tricks.
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/19/18 12:34 PM
Mario, sounds like we both have ageditis grin
Posted By: MarioD Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/19/18 02:12 PM
Originally Posted By: furry
Mario, sounds like we both have ageditis grin


No Graham, it is called CRS, i.e Can't Remember Stuff.

PS - that is the politically correct version of the disease wink
Posted By: furry Re: Sound gone wonky since windows update - 01/22/18 07:05 AM
Formatted C drive last night so hopefully all problems now sorted
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