Hi All. I started with BIAB a while back and currently have 2018. My PC is Win 7 Home. My main reason for BIAB is to use it to make some backing tracks as MP3 to which I can strum and sing along with. Then a few family members asked if I would record a few songs for them. I guess they enjoyed my music, why not to me I sound great, But then, heard myself on a recording, oh boy. They must really love me. Anyway, I got ambitious and bought Joanne Coopers first song course. I have never looked at Realband before. So far so good. Then I scraped together a few pennies and bought a mixer. It's an Alto Live802 with USB connectivity. This all seems simple enough. Well after all weekend of trying to get all this setup and try my first vocal I'm pretty worn out and desperate. I think this PC is possessed, what a struggle. Gave up after many hours trying to get it all working together,just before fetching a hammer from my garage and teaching it a good lesson. The wife just looks at me with that slight smile and says, "I'm sure you'll work things out Dear". Right. I'll try again this afternoon. Old Guys and Technology. Regards from Durban RSA. Bryan.

Hi Bryan. I am sorry you are having a struggle. Sometimes I also think of taking a hammer to my computer and turning a software problem into a hardware problem!

In the beginning of this journey I used to use an old Yamaha mixer to record (using the line out of the mixer to the microphone jack on my computer). I haven't experienced setting up a USB mixer. Maybe some who knows about how these things work will help. I would guess that it is a driver issue and usually windows is clever enough to download the driver automatically as soon as you plug in a new USB device. But...I am guessing. Lets hope someone else chimes in.

I also find it useful to go into your windows audio settings (right click on the little speaker on the bottom RHS of the screen) and select 'recording devices" and see what windows thinks it is using to record.

Bryan,

Please correct me if I'm wrong. What I'm interpreting from your post is....

1. You've managed to successfully create backing tracks in BIAB and you've managed to save them as mp3 files.

2. You've also managed to enter chords, generate them and successfully create backings in Realband.

3. You want to record your vocals and guitar in Realband.

4. To help to do this, you bought an Alto Live802 mixer.

5. You'd like to feed the output from this USB mixer into Realband and record from this.

Are all the above correct?

Also...

What are you computer specifications? Is it a desktop or a laptop. Does your soundcard have input sockets? What do you currently use as a soundcard?

Regards,
Noel

• one of my songs: So Beautiful

Hi Joanne, Hi Noel.
I have not used Realband much yet. Mainly I have used BIAB. Sometimes loaded old MIDI files but mostly started off by typing in chords, intro, verse, chorus etc. Found the best fit style, saved it as BIAB file then created the MP3. After watching Joanne's training video to record my vocal, Joanne uses Realband. I don't have a USB mic or USB interface thing so thought to buy the mixer instead, more versatile can be used to jam and practice. I have a condenser mic.
I have managed to open that BIAB file in Realband. I have connected the mixer to the PC with a USB cable but have struggled to set things up so I can sing into my mic through the mixer and record it into Realband. I have set the Win 7 sound to the USB codec input and output, also the same in Realband and BIAB. Need to adjust levels I think somewhere. With my headphones in the mixer I select a new track I record. I can hear the backtrack from Realband and hear my voice on the mic but can't seem to get it to record into Realband. When I try and it says keep the take or something like that the track is blank. After fiddling I got a faint recording very soft. Then lost that too. Then I tried to record my vocal into BIAB but again the VU meter shows no input activity at all. I'm heading home shortly from work and will try again. Thanks a million and take care. Bryan.

BryanDP,

Welcome to the forum!

Is the mixer available for selection in Band-in-a-Box's audio settings? USB devices only show up while a device is connected so you have to first connect the mixer then start Band-in-a-Box for the mixer to show up in Band-in-a-Box's audio settings.

Hi Jim. Yes it was connected and switched on. I could see it in the audio settings as USB Codec or something like that in both BIAB and RB but just could not get it communicate. Got home and disconnected the Alto. Took a test mixer from a friend. Its a Wharfdale Connect 1202 plugged it in and switched on. Set the audio to the USB PnP and wow works perfectly. Go figure. I thought I had the better mixer. It cost dubble the price of the wharfdale. Anyway now I'll do some wheeling and dealing and experiment with the Wharfdale. Thanks and take care. Bryan.

BrianDP, there should be no difference between the Wharfdale mixer and your Alto so I wouldn't give up yet. The Alto is class compliant so the company does not offer a specific driver but rather state if you have connectivity issues to use Asio4all driver.

Bryan,

I wonder if what you are experiencing is a volume-related thing. Have you checked Windows 'Mixer' panel by right-clicking on the speaker icon... this panel has individual application volumes.

Also by right-clicking on the speaker icon, selecting "Recording", and then double-clicking on the default input, it's possible to get into the settings for an application. Check that there are no muted settings and that volume sliders are well up.

Regards,
Noel

• my latest song: He’s An African Rhino (2018)

Thanks for the patience.I won't give up yet. I'm a bit old fashioned and don't enjoy the setup side of the technology too much. In the mean time I'm trying to record a basic vocal. Just very basic. A few old Buddies are pushing me to get going with this. What I did notice is if the USB is set up as Input and Output and my headphones are plugged in the mixer I can hear the music and the mic nicely. But when I record the vocal I'm getting the music also recorded onto the vocal track. Looks like while the music is coming from RB to the mixer it is also being fed back together with the mic and being recorded as well. There are no speakers connected so no audio in the room, only the voice singing, and occasionally the dog next door gets into the mix. Don't want that. Want only clean vocal on that track, not even that dog.
It's great to share my challenges, thanks.
Going to get some of that acoustic foam and build a small portable booth to also try and clean up those unwanted sounds a bit. Not sure about that dog though. Take care, Bryan.

Bryan,

That sounds like a soundcard setting and that you setting is set to record "What you hear" or equivalent. "What you hear" is what it's called for my Audigy by Creative Labs.

Below is how I access this using Windows 7...

1. Right-click on Windows speaker icon in the taskbar.

2. Select "Recording Devices".

3. Set the Mic input as my default recording input (#2 on the image below).

Also, you might want to check the mic volume. To do this, double-click on the Mic input and you will enter into properties as shown below. (Or you can right-click on the Mic input and select "Properties".)

Regards,
Noel

Hi Bryan,


I know it's frowned on around here telling people to R.T.F.M., but in this case I think it appropriate. You are trying to record audio with no idea about a mixer's basic operation, let alone gain staging a signal.

First, read the mixer manual. It will explain how to connect the USB mixer, then you should read this:

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/gain-staging/



This is an amazing hobby, but you will get more out of it knowing some basics.


Regards,


Bob

Oh boy! Now why didn't I think of that. Take care. Bryan.

Suit your self.

BryanDP,

From the way the manual reads. it is likely you have the mixer set up so that incoming and outgoing audio are combined. Whatever you hear is the same signal sent to the computer to be recorded. You need to split incoming and outgoing audio into two signals.

Page 7 details how the mixer usb port handles both audio coming into the mixer from the computer (receiving) and outgoing audio going from the mixer and into the computer (sending). Essentially it says you can send audio from the computer to two places (Ctrl or Main Out) but outgoing audio from the mixer to the computer is automatically sent to Main Out.



You want the received audio to go to the Control Room Outputs (Ctrl Out) because the outgoing audio must go to the Main Mix. You will use the "Phones Source" button (item 29 on page 6) to switch between the audio coming from the computer (Ctrl Out) and going from the mixer to the computer (Main Out) with raised listening to audio from the mixer to the computer (Main Out) and depressed listening to audio coming into the mixer from the computer (Ctrl Out).

Hi Jim. Wonderful. I'm starting to see this now. Assuming that I can get the alto connected and communicating with my PC then I'll let the mic go through channel 1 via main mix straight into PC for recording. Then plug in the headphone into the mixer. Set the USB in to Control and the headphone also to control. Sounds like a plan. So in the headphones i will only hear the RB music and not the singer at the same time if i understand correctly. The next step is to be able to let the singer hear the music and vocal, but first things first. Im humbled that you take the time and interest to help me, Thank you. I'm off to hospital today got some surgery planned hopefully as soon as I'm able I'll get the Alto back onto the table and try again. Take care. Bryan.

Bryan,

I hope the surgery is minor. Please keep us updated with both your health status and how the Alto works.

Hi There, Just a one day procedure so I'm back home. a little sore and shaking but doing ok. Had an old military injury, was in a patrol vehicle, hit a land mine, had my face smashed a bit against hard surface. All front teeth broken, jaw cracked, nose squashed and left cheek bones crushed etc. Seems after years scar tissue extended and closed off all drainage from left side sinuses. Lots of infection and build up in left sinuses causing all kinds of poisons and headaches so I bit the bullet and had it repaired and cleaned. Hope it works out ok. Getting old is not for sissies.

Done some testing again this morning. I'm convinced the Alto is not working on the recording side of the USB. This is my reasoning.
1 Win 7 Sound Playback set to USB Audio Codec, Level 100.
2 Win 7 Sound Recording set to USB Audio Codec, Level 100.
3 Tested the Windows Accessories Sound Recorder it is not getting anything for the mic plugged into the Alto. (Phantom power is on)
Got BIAB and RB Options for Audio both set to MME Drivers on USB Codec.
4 Is it the Cable. I have 2, both do the same on the Alto, both work perfectly on the Wharfdale.
5 Is it the USB Port on the PC. Not the PC because the Wharfdale works so could be the USB Port on the Alto.
6 Got the USB In selector on the Alto set to Control.
7 Got the headphones plugged into the Alto selected Control.
8 Loaded a SEQ file in RB. Hit play and I hear the music.

The VU meter at the bottom shows Output movement.
I try the Mic in the Alto set around 0db. I see activity on the Mixer VU meter, if i switch the headphone to Main I hear the mic and no music. The VU meter on RB shows no activity at all. If I understand the Mic should be going via the Main Mix from the Alto through the USB Driver/Cable into RB and show activity on the VU Meter in RB. Nothing there.

I close RB and open BIAB. All same settings same results.

Switch to the Wharfdale mixer and the same testing again. Now everything works.

Like I said before I'm convinced the Alto is faulty on the Main Out to the PC.
Going to take my meds now and back to bed.
Take Care. Bryan.

Bryan,

With USB devices, something that Kent from PG Music often recommends is to unplug the device, shut the computer down fully, restart the computer and, when things have fully booted up, plug the device in.

Also, when you say that the volume levels are up to 100, have you checked to see that there is no mute icon (a red circle with a diagonal line) indicating that they are inactive?

Regards,
Noel

<<<
1 Win 7 Sound Playback set to USB Audio Codec, Level 100.
2 Win 7 Sound Recording set to USB Audio Codec, Level 100.
3 Tested the Windows Accessories Sound Recorder it is not getting anything for the mic plugged into the Alto. (Phantom power is on)
Got BIAB and RB Options for Audio both set to MME Drivers on USB Codec.
4 Is it the Cable. I have 2, both do the same on the Alto, both work perfectly on the Wharfdale.
5 Is it the USB Port on the PC. Not the PC because the Wharfdale works so could be the USB Port on the Alto.
6 Got the USB In selector on the Alto set to Control.
7 Got the headphones plugged into the Alto selected Control.
8 Loaded a SEQ file in RB. Hit play and I hear the music.
>>>

This appears to be a routing issue at the mixer. The cable appears to be ok with no issues. The reason the Wharfdale is working and the Alto is not is a routing configuration issue and likely not a defect.

Once the mixer routing is correct, the mixer output connectivity into Biab, RB or Sound Recorder will work.

Regarding Main Out/CTRL out and the USB connection, these terms do not mean the physical outputs on the back of the mixer used to send audio to a PA system and monitors but are the Routing Options for the mixer to send audio signals and returns between the mixer and computer via the USB connection.

First set your mixer up so that you have a mic signal that is traveling from the Channel Strip through to the main mix output. The Live 802 User guide states the path from the mixer through the USB cable (SEND) to the computer only sends a signal from the mixer Main Out to the computer. (6) (7) The USB In button and knob determine where the signal from the computer is routed into the mixer. The Main Mix Fader determines the output level to to the computer.

You can determine if you have a proper signal routed through the mixer either with the meters or a headphone set to main out. The mixer does not have to be connected to a PA.

If you plug in your headphones and are hearing the output of the computer, that signal can be routed (mixed and volume controlled in the mixer) so either the Monitor fader or the Main Out fader controls the input signal in the mixer. (8)

Thanks for the guidance, truly appreciated. Yes Noel I have made sure no mutes are ticked. What I have not thought about is the main mix slider on the Alto. I have it down to zero. For some reason whatever I thought that this would only control the XLR/jack levels to the powered speakers and not the USB level. The master level pot on the Wharfdale has also been turned right down.
Going to try the Alto again using the main mix slider. If I cant get that right I'll switch off and reboot again.
Take care.Bryan.

That's exactly where I went wrong. The Alto USB out is affected by the main mixer slider. With that on zero nothing was being sent to the PC. Now I have that working. I would never have got this without your help. Strange the different working with the Wharfdale. That one the USB out is only affected by the channel input where the mic is and even the main mix pot on zero. The USB from the mixer seems to be at a preset and not affected by the main mixer pot. Anyway now I can start experimenting with the Alto and learning more. Apologies for being so convinced it was faulty. Good lesson learned. Thanks and take care. Bryan.

It's working! Yea! Glad you were so persistent. Looking forward to hearing your first masterpiece created with it.

Now, go take your meds and lay down!

A master piece, I think not, small steps. The most amazing thing, all things considered, some folk have actually paid me to perform. But that was a long time ago and no fancy technology back then. Had and old drum machine think it was a Dr Rythym, All hand controls so I build up this stand with levers and two pedals. One to start and stop and one for a fillin. Right foot for that then an old Bass peddle Left foot for that, strum the old Guitar sing along add a little mouth harp here and there. All into the Peavy PA and off I went. Then Those old Bass Pedals went crazy kept changing key during the gig. Couldn't find anyone to repair that so we fiddled and finally bypassed the electronics took the pedals and connected then to the bass keys of and old Yamaha key board. A bit of a hack that was but at least I had some bass that stayed in key.
Then some dark times, divorce, lost most everything, kids in varsity etc. Down on my knees for awhile. Not much further to go down so rather go back up. All good lessons in life now got me a wonderful lady and I'm getting back into a little music. Not planning on gigs again but could maybe record some of the old Buddies (and Baddies) so they could leave a few songs for their grand kids to remember them by. Special thanks to you guys for the support and guidance. Take Care. Bryan