pg please pin this in the beginners forum please cos i
dont want to keep on posting this. OR include as a guide
for new beginners in your docs.
i am posting this as i see the same q's over and over ad
infinitum in these forums.
A NICE STUDIO SET UP FOR BEGINNERS/ANYONE.
AROUND 1.2 K IN COST.
(THIS SET UP I USE AND I HAVE RECORDED IN BIG STUDIOS.)
1. biab and reaper for software.
2. xtra plug ins. pay 20 bucks for an issue of computer music
magazine. great plug ins. see you tube for demos.
YOU DONT NEED TO SPLASH OUT HUGE MONEY FOR PLUG INS.
THE BUILT IN free PLUG INS IN BIAB AND REAPER ARE ALSO
WONDERFULL..
(inside tip check out the free JESUSONIC plug ins in reaper.
and also reaper stash.)
3. BUY A REFURBISHED COMPUTER WITH WARRANTY.
eg. i5//i7 cpu , one or more ssd's, 8/16 gigs ram.
300 bucks. ive found refurbs often better than new !!
AND you save a bunch of dollars.
make sure it boots fast , thats the clue.
4. add a STARTECH external box that accepts ssd's.
they are 40 bucks or so and look like a toaster.
great for fast back ups from pc internal ssd or you can use
as primary.
5. DONT USE ON BOARD SOUND. GET A PROPER INTERFACE.
i use steinberg ur22. works a charm. great drivers.
had it several years now. nice mic preamps.
6. A MIC , DONT USE DYNAMICS cos they need a lot of gain .
USE A CONDENSER.
i use this nice little tascam tm 80. under rated imho.
its 80 buks. now before anyone crits me ive used multi
thousand dollar mics . there are loads of other under 150 buck
condensers. but the tm 80 doesnt need a strict 48v dc.
the advantage of condensers over dynamic mics is you
dont have to crank the usb interface mic preamp like one does
with dynamics or need an in line preamp booster.
i got a load of mics i hardly use lol.
7. dont overpay for fancy monitors/phones.
i learnt that lesson the hard way. one reason being that the people
listening to your song often are useing cheap speakers.
remember often mixes done on 5k soffit monsters sometimes
dont translate well to your bro's 50 buck boombox.

the above set up should yield grrreat results.
irrespective of gear. songs are a ton of dedication and sweat.
i compare the above to when i owned big studio gear , and i will say
this is a golden age for cheap gear.
often its how one uses the gear rather than the gear itself.
i dont profess to have all the answers.
just hoping to help newbies a little.
keep laughing/be happy and make music.
my moniker is "mystery muso".

Good info sir. Unfortunately, they do not generally pin user posts here. Most new folks are far too lazy and impatient to spend the time doing a search. I agree, stuff like this has been posted over and over again. It's a conundrum to say the least.

Perhaps consider posting in the User Tips and Tricks section of the forums.

sslechta.

re. lazy. your right.
i would like a dollar for every time someones posted on a recording forum,,
"i'm playing this midi file and adjusting the fader but the volume dont change".
lol. i would be rich.
people need to take the time to understand midi/embedded commands in the midi data stream. and buy a book on midi.

i'm happy to help people new to this crazy music life;
its just that it gets a tad tiresome answering the same
questions for the thousandth time.
pg need faq's on questions like this cos it would save a ton of time.
regards.
mysterymuso.
ps i like the tm 80 mic because it will run all the way down to 9vdc.
so one isnt dependent on a strict 48 v dc phantom supply.
btw nice rig you got. try reaper daw sometimes.
i love it.

I hate to rain on anyone's parade but, without knowing the type of music one wants to make, any such list is useless. If a newbie blindly spends after reading, then such a list is worse than useless. The acoustic singer/songwriter, aspiring film composer and the fan of industrial have vastly different needs, for example.

The problem with such a pinned post is that many would not agree to your list. Count me among that crowd.

Reaper? Audacity? Cheapware or freeware with no phone support for a beginner? Can't agree to that for a second. No phone support is why I could never recommend a Steinberg ur22. Well, that and the fact that the UR22mkII is a much better interface as are all the new Fast USB 2 interfaces introduced since last October (all use the same DAC).

I had a simple support issue with Steinberg recently—the kind that no user group can help with, BTW. I received the email with the link I needed 10 days later. Yamaha is one of the largest music companies in the world and it took one of their divisions 10 days to email a support link. Ok, I'm a working professional and it wasn't a big deal but if I was a newbie, 10 days would be beyond unacceptable.

The MOTU M2 costs $5 more than the UR22mkII, uses the same DAC, has much better metering, comes with Performer Lite and has telephone support. Logic Pro X may be $199 but again, it has phone support (Apple doesn't advertise this but it does). BIAB has phone support. Beginners should buy interfaces and apps that let them talk to people when they're starting out and in a jam.

Likewise, telling any group blindly that certain items are not required is the biggest mistake. Again, it depends on the goal.

Unless you know the exact price and immediate availability of used gear "with a guaranty", the less said about that, the better.

I'm happy to make gear recommendations for beginners but only after I know the goals.

mike.
i was just trying to help beginners.
have you ever tried reaper? there are avid fans useing it in EVERY music genre all over the world includeing these forums.
big studios down to home set ups.
if you peruse the reaper.fm forums you will see qoutes
along the lines of "the biab and reaper combo is a well kept secret".
perhaps you might like to share your beginners set up
for each music genre. rap/rock/country/jazz/blues etc etc. ?
respectfully.
mysterymuso.

I'm totally with you. This list is totally useless without knowing the requirements and optimistic at best for a solution. I sing and do a lot of background vocals. I couldn't imagine using this list and yielding any good results. I won't even get into the product list. It seems to be based more on personal preference than fact. Also if you really want to prove that this works produce and release some music. Then I would be in a better position to judge.

I would never recommend an app or an interface to a beginner that doesn't have phone support.

Ever.

I've made my reasons clear.


What I might do for myself has nothing to do with anything. With over 50 years experience in the record industry and using DAWs for nearly half that time, I am no beginner.

There's a large community who thinks that all you need is an iPhone, ear buds and GarageBand. They are happy with the music they make and I'm not going to tell them they're wrong. I don't think they are except that I believe an iPad is better

In fact, I'm about to knock out guide tracks for a band I work with using my iPad only. The other tracks will be created on iPhones, an old Boss recorder, an M2 into a Mac Mini and one of those Steinberg interfaces you like into a MacBook Pro. I'll assemble the results in my studio. All were beginners in March except myself.


Again, because you didn't understand me the first time: What a person wants to do with a recording setup makes all the difference in what a person needs. There is no "one size fits all" here.

mike.
this will be my last comment on this subject as i am going through rehab after a major surgery.
people can easily check on reaper by going to the pg biab win forum here at pgmusic and asking if people are happy with it.
or the main reaper.fm forum.

i am not willing to get into a mac vs pc debate as this has been hashed out thousands of times over the years in various recording forums.
eg. gearslutz.com has many threads on the subject.
with pros and cons on both sides.
lots of mac and pc threads. configs etc etc.
also reaper.fm has forums for both mac and pc. lots of info.

frankly i'm not happy with any computer architectures currently.
we are stuck STILL with slow cpu's for example.
I yearn for the day when we have ultra high speed processors and busses etc.
but until that day comes one works with what is offered by the marketplace.
as everyone knows,, new product introductions are rapid these days.and obsolescence is just as rapid. thus i am carefull.

(yes i'm well aware of the M.2 as well as the new SSL interfaces.but i typically wait awhile on new products to see if there are any problems.)

its rather interesting you should mention telephone support as your major criteria because just the other day , an organisation ive trusted for years with their telephone support and instant accessibility was not available when i really really needed them, and didnt get back to me for 2 days.
(note, the occasional time ive called pg phone support. no problem).
even the most well run organisation can be flooded with calls, as they can only afford the overhead of so many people in a call centre.
because call centres are a cost centre.

respectfully.
mysterymuso

Or ----

BIAB $129 PG Music Pro Pak
Dp03 $330 Tascam 8 track Digital Multi Track Recorder
_________
Total $469

No Mac/PC debate necessary.
No external DAW required. The Unit has Proprietary built in DAW capable of completing a project from start to finish.
No Latency.
Hardware and PC VST compatible.
No mic required, two included. XLR's available for external mics.
No interface required.
No electric mains required. Device can be operated on batteries.
No knowledge of the goals or type of music user performs is necessary in order to recommend the unit...
Excellent phone support by both companies.
This combo satisfies all seven of the beginners home studio recommendations from the original poster.
Recordings are indistinguishable from like/kind quality recordings made on expensive DAW/interface/comparable mic system or iPhone, ear buds and GarageBand.
Completely compatible with all BIAB tracks from any version, release year and sound format.
Super easy to set up and operate. Set up and operation can be mastered in less than an hour by a complete novice.
______________________

So:
"What a person wants to do with a recording setup makes all the difference in what a person needs. There is no "one size fits all" here." is an incorrect statement.


A home studio is a recording path from a sound source input to a sound source output that provides the ability to archive audio/data. It can be as simple or complex as one wants or can afford and understands how to use.

This setup is capable of recording anything from a singer/songwriter, Karaoke singer, duo band, trio, 7 piece band, full orchestra or aspiring film composer because it has the necessary inputs and outputs to be configured and adapted to the recording environment.

Charlie:
We Tascam Guys gotta get hot on this Model 12. Introduced this year. I've been holding out, waiting for Tascam to get up to date with respect to computer compatibility. Not ready to write the
DP-03 off, mind you, but not recomending it at this time.

Examples: (1) I build a BIAB backing track, render to six WAVs, want to quickly transfer those six tracks onto the recorder, tweak and reduce them to two or three.
(2) I have a set of 24 songs on a 32G card. I want to go into a song and start doing some serious bouncing and mastering. I'm up against power limitations right away.
(3) I want to isolate one track and run it through the Reaper or Audacity effects bank. In short, I want to be able to do all those things Willie can do in his $1M studio for a couple of grand. Is that asking too much?

Ed, thanks for your ciomment. Yes, the Model12,16 and 24 are exciting new gear and welcome additions to the recording scene. My recommendation of the DP03 was to demonstrate a bare minimum setup as a alternate to the DAW/audio interface system discussed above. The DP03 is a reasonable choice as the anchor of a home recording studio for beginners because it offers all of the basic necessities to compose and complete high quality recordings at both a reasonable cost and quite a manageable learning curve and it interacts wonderfully with any version of BIAB.

There are definite benefits to a hardware and BIAB combination that enhances the potential product, complexity and arrangements of BIAB tracks that elevates BIAB tracks on par with tracks edited in a DAW. These tools, techniques are mostly ignored by users that move their tracks over to their DAW because there's no benefit to do it in BIAB over a DAW. There are however many benefits when using hardware rather than a DAW.

BIAB functions as a digital multi track recorder so it can do a lot of advance edits, bounces, sub-mixes, smooth transitions, fade-in's, fade-out's, intros and outros. BIAB can also serve the function of virtual tracks for a digital recorder with a set number of physical tracks like the DP03.

These digital multi track capabilities overcome all of the limitation you list in your comment above.

I agree there are better choices but that by no means diminishes the DP03's capability to accomplish the task.

Just a reminder, if I read the specs correctly, only the Model 12 functions as a DAW controller. I admit, the unit looks spectacular.

I'm still a little put off by Tascam abandoning the FW-1884 even though it had in its possession updated drivers for Windows 10.

In my opinion, none of these hybrid units are 'best' choices in a studio that does not completely rely on a DAW for all processing. Even mundane tasks of punching in/out, recording additional tracks with the same instrument or mic are more efficiently, easier and quicker completed in the DAW rather than using the hardware device. The unit line from top to bottom continues Tascam's development decisions of compromise equipment.

At the moment, the DP-24/32 units are hands down better choices for a dedicated home recording studio that's not completely dependent on a DAW for everything beyond tracking.

The best choice for an ideal hybrid BIAB/hardware recording combination would be a joint venture between Tascam and PG Music to revive the Tascam 2488neoMarkII (3rd gen 2488 model) and integrate the entire BIAB program and Styles/RealTracks/SuperMidi for built-in access of the full program so the device would be similar in concept to the Digitech Trio but also a full blown 8 input, 24 track digital Multi track stand alone recorder.

While this concept would work with any of the Porta-studio style digital multi track recorders including the DP-24/32 models but the Tascam 2488neoMarkII model is a better choice for several reasons. One, the Tascam 2488neoMarkII had aftermarket VGA video out capability so it would work with large size monitors. Second, it should be easy to adapt the units to larger, modern SSD Hard drives and the latest USB connections which would complete an up to date all in one unit with proprietary OS, DAW and BIAB...

First part of this video good info.

https://youtu.be/MlT5OIxEZXo

I'm with ya Charlie. I do ALL Vocals on a DP32. Especially important for me since a lot of my tracks have 3 and 4 part background harmonies. NO LATENCY, NO PROBLEMS WITH BUSS SPEED. Effects added at Pre-Fade so I can hear them while singing but not recording, etc... and I can easily export over to Cakewalk for mixing. I couldn't do without it.

Songmen:
I still use the same DP 03 I have had for years. Haven't yet found a good reason to change. Maybe the 12 will be it. Notice in the videos he is mastering with the dials...even multi band compression. This could be huge. Also, he demonstates how to import a track directly from a computer. Another bigly. Also. more power and larger SD. Have you had the unit shut down and complain it is being overworked? I have, many times.