Hi all...

It's beginning to feel like I'm spending more time trying to get stuff to work than I am making music. Very frustrating to be sure.

Here's the latest head scratcher:

I've done a song in BIAB made up of 4 MIDI instruments and 1 audio instrument. (realdrums) Everything is sounding great.

My next move is to bring the song into my DAW - Reaper - with the PG plugin. It all goes in where it should.
However, I can't hear any of the MIDI tracks - only the audio track (realdrums) The meters are all moving in the MIDI tracks, I can record in the MIDI tracks but I just can't hear anything.
This problem is the same in Cakewalk and RealBand.
I can bring Sample Tank 4 into Reaper and Cakewalk and it records and sounds as it should, and I can hear and edit the MIDI notes I have created.

Any help would be so appreciated

/Bobby

The plugin can playback MIDI so that is why you see the meters move. However, by default the plugin MIDI soft synth is disabled so the sounds the plugin generates will not conflict with the sounds the DAW MIDI soft synth generates.

Go to File > Preferences > DAW Settings then scroll down. Enable the Embedded Synth.

Hi Jim... thanks so much for your help...

It seems that my BIAB plugin doesn't have the option you show me in your picture... the "enable the Embedded Synth" option isn't showing in my version of the BIAB plugin.

I believe Jim may be showing a recent beta which is still being debugged. Stay tuned.

Yeah... Jim's screenshot doesn't look like mine. Not sure what to do next?

Hi bobbyt9999, what version of the plugin are you running? In the new versions it is written at the bottom left of the plugin. Alternatively you could go to File | About, and the version number will also display there.

Bobby, I'm using version 4 that is part of the 2022 release. I suspect you may have version 3 introduced in 2021.

That would actually be good news since BIAB-VST V3 (most updated version) works better with Reaper than the new BIAB-VST V4.

Bobby, version 4 is part of the 2022 release and is not available separately.

I understand not wanting to upgrade since you have 2021.

Perhaps the 2022 program only upgrade will work for you. I asked Sales early exactly what is in the program only upgrade and was told it is Band-in-a-Box, RealBand and the Plugin. However, I would verify that before agreeing to purchase.

Traditionally the program only upgrade is available only during the release sale.

And so, I just bought the 2022 Program upgrade. And you were right, it was $49... $56CAD.

Again, thanks... I'll let you know how I make out with the new plugin.

/Bobby

I understand what your saying Bobby. However, in PG Music's defense, the plugin relies on Band-in-a-Box running as a background task to perform many of it's functions. RealBand also relies on Band-in-a-Box running as a background task to perform it's functions related to Band-in-a-Box features. That's why Band-in-a-Box, RealBand and the plugin are all released at the same time.

I'm not trying to start a war but other companies do the same thing. When Kontakt upgrades you must buy it to get the VST. Kontakt's free updates include VST's updates, just like PGM does with their free updates.

Hi Mario... No fear, there's not gonna be any wars starting. I'm usually a pretty easy going old fella

If you noticed, I took down the rant that I posted because at the time I was understanding that I was going to need to pay $179USD in order to get the newer plugin. Thankfully Jim pointed out that I could just upgrade the program, plugin included, for $49USD - $56CAD. So, my bad for jumping the gun too quickly.

/Bobby

And now... to get this thread back on topic...

It saddens me to say that the newer plugin hasn't cleared up my problem of not hearing my BIAB midi tracks in Reaper or Cakewalk. The sounds are there but just can't be heard. There's just one audio track in my song (drums) and that can be heard. Obviously I'm still not getting some setting right. I'll post another screen shot in a bit.

/Bobby

Bobby,

I hope you will discover some of the features introduced this year like motifs and micro-chords help make the program upgrade a worthy purchase. I'm glad to see the program upgrade includes RealBand and the plugin.

I'm looking forward to hearing your music!

Hi Jim... yeah, I'm sure there's a lot of stuff in the 2022 version that I'm going to love. To be honest, I really don't mind the $49 charge to upgrade at all. I'm sure that it's well worth it.

/Bobby

BIAB-VST 3.0 was working in Reaper, but has been broken with V4.0. We are waiting on a fix. I pointed that out earlier today in this tread. So you were warned.

Thanks for this, Dan.

I can now see that a fix to version 4 is needed and I take comfort in knowing that it's in the process of being fixed. Now, when I bring my BIAB song into Reaper or Cakewalk, I open the BIAB file in the plugin, and then generate the song within the plugin, it just abruptly shuts down either Reaper or Cakewalk.

And yes, you were very correct when you say that I you forewarned me that version 4 has a few bugs. I can be a very impulsive buyer sometimes. I see something and I just HAVE to have it without doing even any basic researching on it.

/Bobby

Bobby, is it after dragging the MIDI into Reaper that the audio didn't play? If so, that is normal. Reaper doesn't automatically assign an instrument or plugin to a track, so the MIDI has nothing to play through. You mentioned that adding Sampletank caused it to work, right? That's what you'd need to do for each track.

As for version 4.0.0 not working in Reaper, the developers are aware of the issues and are looking into them.

Bobby, if I read you correctly you want to hear your BiaB MIDI while in the VSTi, correct. If I may ask why?

The BiaB GM is at the lower end of the sound rankings. IIRC you have better sounds in both Reaper and Cakewalk and possibly some other softsynths.

My workflow is to bring all of the MIDI tracks into my DAW then assign a MIDI sound source to each track. It is more time consuming but I end up with much better ear candy using this technique. You may want to try this. YMMV

Hi Simon... and all... I don't want folks thinking that I have abandoned my thread. It's just that I have been too busy all day to sit down with the music. I will have more time tomorrow and will get back to you then.

Thanks in advance for all your help... very appreciated.

/Bobby

No worries Bobby! Once you're back at it tomorrow could you clarify for us whether you're trying to play the MIDI straight out of the BB plugin, or whether you've dragged the MIDI into the DAW?

Hi Simon...

What I do is compose my song in BIAB. I then go into Reaper or Cakewalk and insert a "virtual instrument on new track" I choose the PG Music plugin. This creates a track in Reaper called "BIAB DAW VST3." I open the song I composed in BIAB within the plugin. When it loads I then "generate" the song in the plugin, and it does it*. All the tracks are midi in this case - except the "real drums."

I then drag all the tracks into Reaper using the "All" button on the plugin. I have dropped them ON the first track that was created when I first inserted the plugin. It didn't work.

I have dragged all the tracks using the "All" button on the plugin and put them UNDER the track that was created when I first inserted the plugin. Tracks set up nicely and the meters are moving, including the track that was created when I first inserted the plugin, but no sound. I've made sure that all "record monitoring" buttons are set to "on."

I've tried bringing in one track at a time (as if that's going to make any difference) and end up with the same results.

If I bring the tracks into Reaper as wav files, everything works fine. But I do know that a midi track has a different set of rules than an audio track.

I should say that I'm having the same issue in Cakewalk as well. The only difference is that when I drag all the tracks from the plugin into Cakewalk, 30... yes, 30 tracks are created. Dunno what's going on there.

So I know it is something that I'm not seeing, doing, or probably even understanding.

I'm hoping that I've been able to explain myself in a somewhat coherent way. If not, let me know what I missed and I'll get back to you.

Thanks so much!!!

/Bobby

But I assume you don't know what those rules are?
A midi file dragged into reaper will have no sound. You need to assign a VST to the Reaper track in order for the midi to play a virtual instrument. Like midi in any DAW.

But that is the easy stuff. Are you telling us you have not crashed the BIAB-VST- 4.2.8 in Reaper? You must be doing something right.

Hi Mario...

I THINK I understand what you're saying... but probably not lol
I'll give it a try to see if I understand it.

I compose my song in BIAB and then bring it into Reaper or Cakewalk. Mostly, I'm using it for the bass and drum tracks, and the rest I do with plugins like SampleTank 4.

One of the reasons why I like to use midi on some songs is that I'm still not, after all these years, an accomplished keyboard player. Therefore, if there's a part that I need to put into the song, and if the song's tempo is too fast for my keyboard abilities I can slow the whole song down. Doing this gives me more of a chance of getting it right. Once done, I reset the original tempo and voila... I don't think I can do this with RealTracks as they're audio. Of course,I would much rather be always using RealTracks, and I do for a lot of stuff. Their sounds cannot be beat, hands down.

I know that the whole solution to this is for me to learn how to play the keyboard. But at my age, I really don't see that happening.

That is correct. BIAB automatically assigns a plugin and an instrument to MIDI tracks, while most DAWs don't. Without an instrument or plugin, it will play nothing. The BIAB plugin itself doesn't respond to MIDI notes, so it will not play any sound that way either.



So far I have not crashed 4.2.8 or any of the previous 4.x versions in Reaper, so I guess I'm performing some sort of voodoo. The only issue I've personally had was in Performer Lite 13, which refused to validate the VST3 (which it also wouldn't validate some of the 3.x versions for me either) - VST2 was fine though.

Well, I'm thinking that I may be starting to understand what is being explained to me.

When I insert a BIAB plugin track into Reaper, I will see all the midi notes that were played in the original BIAB song. But I won't hear them. I have to assign an instrument to that track in order to hear those notes being played. Am I getting warm?

For sure I'll be playing around with it again tomorrow.

As for crashing the newest version of Reaper... yep... I've been doing it while trying to use the new PG plugin. Many times. I've also crashed Cakewalk with it. Many times. For me, using the plugin is like a box of chocolates... I never know what I'm gonna get.

Thanks for all your patience with me... I'm much obliged to you guys.

/Bobby

Almost forgot to wish you all a very happy new year!!!

It is another very quiet new year's eve around here. The Covid virus is spreading like wildfire in my neck of the woods and so we're under lock down again.

Stay safe!!!

/Bobby

Not warm but spot on. That is exactly what you have to do.

Is it possibly time to mark this in the first post as Resolved? The post title might imply to some that the problem here is caused by BIAB, when it's more of an education issue. Granted, the plug-in contributed, but that is being worked on.

Hi Matt... I haven't tried this yet so I'm thinking that I'll mark it "Resolved" once I see how it works.

Happy New Year!!!

/Bobby