Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
You need to be logged in to post
Options
Index
#626810 - 12/01/20 11:50 AM [Beginners Forum] MIDI Videos
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7679
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Online   happy
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7679
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (842) RB (Build 8) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H1, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top
#626838 - 12/01/20 01:39 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 407
Loc: Sonoran Desert
mrgeeze Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 407
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Most comprehensive. Thank you

Can you suggest some biab specific implementations of midi wrt styles and instrument tracks.

I am interested in moving my backing track work from 100% RealTracks/Real styles to Some percentage midi.
Hopefully that will allow some greater control over the tracks I produce.

Some videos to help jump start that effort would be helpful.
_________________________
biab(Mac) Logic(daw)
Macbookpro(2013)
Purple & Black Express.

Music: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4X2ibP-Fz9evpzHiJpAZig/featured

Top
#626878 - 12/01/20 06:18 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 13519
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 13519
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Extremely detailed, and covers just about everything with great thoroughness. Surprisingly, I didn't note anywhere that the presenter stated what the acronym 'MIDI' actually stood for in the video, but he did use it in the text description below his video.

Certainly a big effort went into the productions. Thanks for sharing.
_________________________
BIAB & RB2021(Audiophile), SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#626955 - 12/02/20 05:55 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 5379
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 5379
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Thanks for posting these, Jim. I just started watching the first one and will save the links for later.

Although I know a lot about MIDI and prefer it to Real Tracks due to the ability to edit it and customize it to my personal desires, I'm sure there are more than a few new things to learn.

Plus sharing the links with some of my newbie customers might help them understand.

Insights and incites by Notes
_________________________
Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Top
#629097 - 12/09/20 07:06 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Notes Norton]
Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 778
bowlesj Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 778
Thanks for the videos Jim. I don't have a lot of time to watch them so I will squeeze watching them in during my 3 way popcorn guitar practice the last hour of the day :-)
1/ eyes and ears on video,
2/ left hand feeding me popcorn,
3/ right hand practicing finger technique.

Amusing but it works :-)

John


Edited by bowlesj (12/09/20 07:07 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

Top
#629687 - 12/12/20 02:00 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7679
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Online   happy
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 7679
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
John,

The first video gives a pretty good overview. The rest of the videos dig deeper into areas skimmed over in the overview. I'd say 75 - 80 percent of what most people want to know about midi is in the first video.
_________________________
Jim Fogle - 2021 BiaB (842) RB (Build 8) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H1, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top
#629702 - 12/12/20 02:54 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 778
bowlesj Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 778
Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle
John,

The first video gives a pretty good overview. The rest of the videos dig deeper into areas skimmed over in the overview. I'd say 75 - 80 percent of what most people want to know about midi is in the first video.


Hi Jim, I have watched 4 of them. I think what I hope to learn is how some of these DAW programs sample instruments and get it into midi so it sounds like the instrument. So lets take an extreme example of a simple single note played with a sax and later a guitar (no attempt to articulate at all and in fact the exact opposite every attempt not to articulate). My understanding is the technology exists to get the midi to copy these two different sounds pretty accurately. How do they do this? What DAWs can do this? How accurate a playback does it produce in the end? Can a human hear the difference? Can a serious of humans do the blindfold test and guess accurately what the two instruments are? Where can I hear examples if exactly what I describe? What does it cost? Even if it costs too much I would love to learn about this and see proof it works from start to finish. I don't ask for much do I...lol. Produce a video like this and it would get attention. Pure marketing.


Edited by bowlesj (12/12/20 02:56 PM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

Top
#630042 - 12/13/20 08:32 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: bowlesj]
Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 778
bowlesj Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 778
To add to this testing even better to record a real sax to .wav (with attempt to have no articulations) and compare that to a midi version. Repeat with several instruments. Create reviews to compare no articulation real against midi. In short create ways for buyers to compare oranges to oranges and apples to apples. If they want articulations in midi they pay extra. I personally don't want these.
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

Top
#630053 - 12/13/20 09:02 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 22339
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 22339
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5 Pro, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & A5X monitors

Top
#630095 - 12/14/20 05:42 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 5379
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 5379
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Emulating another instrument in MIDI is not all about tone. In fact as long as the tone is 'in the ballpark' it's not that important.

What IS important is copping the nuances of the instrument you are trying to emulate.

When a comedian does an impersonation of a famous person, does he/she have the same voice? Of course not.

Then how do we hear the famous person instead of the comedian? He/she studies the famous person's nuances, uses the ones he/she can copy, and ignores the ones he/she can't.

Same with a MIDI instrument. What are the nuances a player uses on his/her particular instrument. They are restricted by what the instrument can or can't do (for example a piano can't bend notes).

So for a sax, there are dozens of ways to articulate the note with variations of tongue placement, breath support, and airstream pressure -- there are ways to change the vowel sound of the tone by changing the oral cavity of the player - pitch variations of the reed are important, often scooping up to notes, or pitch vibrato that also changes the tone - grace notes mordents and other ornaments play a big part - throat growl and/or flutter tongue methods add various amounts of distortion - general tone gets brighter with more volume - and so on.

People new to MIDI often chase tone and forget about the way an instrument expresses itself. If you play that sax or guitar patch like a piano, it isn't going to fool anyone, no matter how good the tone is. If you play that piano patch like a sax or guitar, it won't fool anyone either.

Of course there may be times you want an instrument patch to not emulate what the patch is. Vibrato on piano? Why not if you are trying something new.

Insights and incites by Notes
_________________________
Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Top
#630099 - 12/14/20 05:59 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Notes Norton]
Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 778
bowlesj Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 778
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
Emulating another instrument in MIDI is not all about tone. In fact as long as the tone is 'in the ballpark' it's not that important.

What IS important is copping the nuances of the instrument you are trying to emulate.

When a comedian does an impersonation of a famous person, does he/she have the same voice? Of course not.

Then how do we hear the famous person instead of the comedian? He/she studies the famous person's nuances, uses the ones he/she can copy, and ignores the ones he/she can't.

Same with a MIDI instrument. What are the nuances a player uses on his/her particular instrument. They are restricted by what the instrument can or can't do (for example a piano can't bend notes).

So for a sax, there are dozens of ways to articulate the note with variations of tongue placement, breath support, and airstream pressure -- there are ways to change the vowel sound of the tone by changing the oral cavity of the player - pitch variations of the reed are important, often scooping up to notes, or pitch vibrato that also changes the tone - grace notes mordents and other ornaments play a big part - throat growl and/or flutter tongue methods add various amounts of distortion - general tone gets brighter with more volume - and so on.

People new to MIDI often chase tone and forget about the way an instrument expresses itself. If you play that sax or guitar patch like a piano, it isn't going to fool anyone, no matter how good the tone is. If you play that piano patch like a sax or guitar, it won't fool anyone either.

Of course there may be times you want an instrument patch to not emulate what the patch is. Vibrato on piano? Why not if you are trying something new.

Insights and incites by Notes



My uses for midi are fairly trivial. Eventually the Midi gets dumped and replaced by a real instrument. For example a vocalist needs to hear the melody exact so they can learn the song. The Idea was maybe there was a fairly inexpensive way to make it sound a bit better. I have discovered that dropping it an octave helps. It sounds like for my trivial use it is not worth any effort at all.


Edited by bowlesj (12/14/20 07:12 AM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

Top
#630108 - 12/14/20 06:51 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Notes Norton]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 16003
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 16003
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
Emulating another instrument in MIDI is not all about tone. In fact as long as the tone is 'in the ballpark' it's not that important.

What IS important is copping the nuances of the instrument you are trying to emulate.

When a comedian does an impersonation of a famous person, does he/she have the same voice? Of course not.

Then how do we hear the famous person instead of the comedian? He/she studies the famous person's nuances, uses the ones he/she can copy, and ignores the ones he/she can't.

Same with a MIDI instrument. What are the nuances a player uses on his/her particular instrument. They are restricted by what the instrument can or can't do (for example a piano can't bend notes).

So for a sax, there are dozens of ways to articulate the note with variations of tongue placement, breath support, and airstream pressure -- there are ways to change the vowel sound of the tone by changing the oral cavity of the player - pitch variations of the reed are important, often scooping up to notes, or pitch vibrato that also changes the tone - grace notes mordents and other ornaments play a big part - throat growl and/or flutter tongue methods add various amounts of distortion - general tone gets brighter with more volume - and so on.

People new to MIDI often chase tone and forget about the way an instrument expresses itself. If you play that sax or guitar patch like a piano, it isn't going to fool anyone, no matter how good the tone is. If you play that piano patch like a sax or guitar, it won't fool anyone either.

Of course there may be times you want an instrument patch to not emulate what the patch is. Vibrato on piano? Why not if you are trying something new.

Insights and incites by Notes



I agree with Notes.
_________________________
Laughing at your mistakes lengthens your life. Laughing at your wife's mistakes shortens it!

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware.

Top
#630109 - 12/14/20 06:53 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: bowlesj]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 16003
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 16003
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: bowlesj

My uses for midi are fairly trivial. Eventually the Midi gets dumped and replaced by a real instrument. For example a vocalist needs to hear the melody exact so they can learn the song. The Idea was maybe there was a fairly inexpensive way to make it sound a bit better. I have discovered that dropping it an octave help. It sounds like for my trivial use it is not worth any effort at all.


I have found that using vibes works best for a vocalist. Maybe for your other uses also.
_________________________
Laughing at your mistakes lengthens your life. Laughing at your wife's mistakes shortens it!

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware.

Top
#630112 - 12/14/20 07:10 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 778
bowlesj Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 778
I agree MarioD, Vibes is my normal choice. If BIAB had the option to play in the octave it is written in that would help. It plays ah octave higher which makes it sound tiny.


Edited by bowlesj (12/14/20 07:10 AM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

Top
#630121 - 12/14/20 07:57 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 22339
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 22339
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
John, if you want to change the register a MIDI instrument plays in, without transposing the notation, go to Preferences, Channels. Subtract 1 from the octave for that instrument. I’m not at a computer but I think it’s the second column. Bass, for example, is -1. Do that for Melody or Soloist where your vibes are.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5 Pro, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & A5X monitors

Top
#630151 - 12/14/20 11:02 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 778
bowlesj Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 778
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
John, if you want to change the register a MIDI instrument plays in, without transposing the notation, go to Preferences, Channels. Subtract 1 from the octave for that instrument. I’m not at a computer but I think it’s the second column. Bass, for example, is -1. Do that for Melody or Soloist where your vibes are.


Gee thanks Matt! I tried that and it works.

So this is interesting. As shown in the attached picture I opened a blank file in BIAB and entered middle C on every quarter note for 2 bars and set it to play over and over in a loop then I took a computer tuner (NCH Perfect Pitch) and tested it and at channel 4 octave setting zero it correctly plays C4. However again as the picture shows it displays as C5. A bug?


Attachments
Post attachments only available when logged in


Edited by bowlesj (12/14/20 11:03 AM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

Top
#630152 - 12/14/20 11:08 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 22339
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 22339
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
John, there are possibly two things happening here.

BIAB has several ways to do transposition, and this gives you the option to see the actual pitch being played, or not. If you want more details, write back and tell me what you want to see.

And, there is not universal agreement on what note Middle C is according to manufacturers of MIDI equipment and music software programmers. Some say C4, some say C5. Not smart.

Does that help?
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5 Pro, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & A5X monitors

Top
#630153 - 12/14/20 11:15 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 16003
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 16003
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
.............

And, there is not universal agreement on what note Middle C is according to manufacturers of MIDI equipment and music software programmers. Some say C4, some say C5. Not smart.

Does that help?


Adding to the confusion is that fact that I have some software that uses C3! Plus they all have Middle C at MIDI note 60!
_________________________
Laughing at your mistakes lengthens your life. Laughing at your wife's mistakes shortens it!

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB and RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software and some hardware.

Top
#630154 - 12/14/20 11:20 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 22339
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 22339
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Yeah, I didn't want to scare John too much by bringing up C3.
_________________________
BIAB 2021 Win Audiophile & Mac UltraPak. Software: Studio One 5 Pro, Adobe Audition CC, Notion 6; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & A5X monitors

Top
#630155 - 12/14/20 11:26 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: MIDI Videos [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 778
bowlesj Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 778
I always thought Google was king :-)

I googled "what is middle c in scientific notation" and got.
Middle C (the fourth C key from left on a standard 88-key piano keyboard) is designated C4 in scientific pitch notation, and c′ in Helmholtz pitch notation; it is note number 60 in MIDI notation.

Here is the C Note Wiki

"Wiki SEE Wiki Do" or is that "Wiki C Wiki Do" :-)



Edited by bowlesj (12/14/20 11:37 AM)
_________________________
John Bowles
My playing in my 20s:
https://www.reverbnation.com/johnbowles

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


PG Music News
Band-in-a-Box® - Boxing Clever - Sound on Sound #TBT

Did you know that Band-in-a-Box® is more than 30 years old? I stumbled across this 1990 magazine article explaining the relatively new program, and think it's an enjoyable read for any Band-in-a-Box user - it really shows that we are always listening to user feedback when developing our program!

Read the article: Boxing Clever: Band-In-A-Box Software

A few of my favorite statements:

"The intention of PG Music's Band-In-A-Box package is to couple that speed and convenience with the improved flexibility of the personal computer. Versions are available for the Atari ST, Mac, and PC compatibles. Have the programmers succeeded? And can they rid themselves of the stigma of the auto-accompaniment section? Given the above state of affairs, the first hurdle that the program has to overcome is one of acceptance and, frankly, a name like 'Band-In-A-Box' is a bad start."

(I think our name was a great start!)

"The final results are, to say the least, impressive. Band-In-A-Box achieves something that most hardwired auto-accompaniment sections have never been able to do - inject a degree of feel into the music. It really does sound more human than so many of the computer generated pieces I've heard."

"...I'm quite convinced that PG Music will have a winner on their hands. This is one piece of software that you can get more out of than you put in."

#TipTuesday Convert RealDrums to MIDI!

Did you know that you can convert RealDrums to MIDI?

VintageGibson shared this tip to our Tips & Tricks forum, which is a great place to look for program tips from other Band-in-a-Box users!

Read this handy trick.

Have a program tip or trick of your own? Share it on our Tips & Tricks forum today!

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 Italian for Mac is Here!

Abbiamo lavorato tanto e abbiamo aggiunto 80 nuove funzionalità e una straordinaria collezione di nuovi contenuti, tra cui 202 RealTracks, nuovi RealStyles, SuperTracks MIDI, Studi Strumentali, Performance degli Artisti, Bonus RealDrums "Singoli", trascrizioni RealDrums, MultiStyles PAK 1, Xtra Styles PAKs 10 e 11, e altro ancora!

Pacchetti | Nuove Caratteristiche

Export / Print a List of Selected Styles (Band-in-a-Box®)

Did you know that you can export a list of your Styles from Band-in-a-Box®?

Head to this forum post in our "Tips & Tricks" forum, where VideoTrack shares another handy tip for Band-in-a-Box® users!

Band-in-a-Box® Chord List Resource

Ever wonder which chords are supported in Band-in-a-Box®? Access the information from the Help file in the program, or read through the list with our Online Manual!

Chord List - Mac Online Manual
Chord List - Windows Online Manual

Review the other Reference topcs while you're there - with explanations of the different menus and the Keystroke Commands (Hot Keys), you'll definitely learn something new!

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 French for Mac is Here!

Band-in-a-Box® 2021 contient quelques 80 fonctionnalités inédites!

Nous avons beaucoup travaillé pour offrir à Band-in-a-Box® 2021® cette étonnante panoplie de quelques 80 fonctions inédites et sa collection de contenus originaux à savoir : 202 RealTracks, des RealStyles inédits, des SuperTracks MIDI, des Etudes Instrument, des Performances Artiste, un Bonus RealDrums "Solo", des transcriptions RealDrums, les MultiStyles PAK 1, les Xtra Styles PAKs 10 et 11, et bien plus encore!

Achat | Nouvelles Fonctionnalités

VIDEO: Band-in-a-Box® Works Great in Windows®11!

Here's an introductory look at Band-in-a-Box® running on the preview version of Windows® 11!

Watch the video.

Forum Stats
34882 Members
66 Forums
70867 Topics
613723 Posts

Max Online: 2537 @ 01/19/20 07:09 AM
Newest Members
Baccalaureate, Alex Di Carvalho, Ane Atsuko, tizzacd70, KeithJL

34883 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
VideoTrack 193
Simon - PG Music 150
Jim Fogle 143
Matt Finley 142
MarioD 134
Pipeline 128
David Snyder 128
swingbabymix 126
rayc 120
Torrey Bliss 117
Today's Birthdays
George Leering, Jeeep, knutschke