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#101635 - 01/11/11 10:54 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ?
Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
seeker Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
Everything about the sounds when playing BIAB
is much better than the Realband playback with same song.

Playback from PC to My PSR-3000 for both software.

Was curious...My mistakes, or

Thank you,

Seeker


Edited by seeker (01/11/11 10:56 PM)
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Down The Street vs2015 12-03-2014
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#101636 - 01/11/11 11:14 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ? [Re: seeker]
Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1616
Rachael Offline
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Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1616
BIAB has a lot of built-in effects. That is probably what you are hearing. RB has plenty of effect capabilities. For example, reverb for RealDrums is enabled for BIAB. For RB, they are 'dry'. You would need to add a plug-in to get that effect.

When you say 'much better', what do you mean?

R

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#101637 - 01/12/11 12:59 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ? [Re: Rachael]
Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
seeker Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
Rachael,

Fuller, more complete in sound.
I just went back and tried few things for the third time.
The volume levels from BIAB is little bit above comfortable
listening level for me. The realband was substantially lower
in volume. On the external mixer I kicked up the level about
3 of ten on my mixer level. This did make it sound a lot better.

My hearing in the right ear is very good, left ear, not as good.
Therefore tend to run levels a bit higher when "analyzing" the sounds.

Another item thought was strange. In the BIAB version of same song
no realdrums in the mix. Drums indicate Drum Patch #2, know what a patch
is but not sure of this use.

When it loads into realband a realdrums track is auto-generated on load.

Anyway the fuller more complete sound was not setting levels in the two
different programs to same "sound" levels. Sorry bout that.
Bad thing was twice on different days I tried different things.

Was not aware of the dry difference between the different programs.

Thanks again,

Seeker
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FrankB

Down The Street vs2015 12-03-2014
Win7, AMD QuadA8-5500,16GB,2TeraHD, Komplete 10
PG Ultra Plus 2016,Alesis 12USB, Sonar Platinum

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#101638 - 01/12/11 12:30 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ? [Re: seeker]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7362
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7362
Sorry but absolutely no difference except for the added reverb in BIAB. All else is the same, vol,pan etc.
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#101639 - 01/12/11 12:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ? [Re: silvertones]
Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
seeker Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
John,

Thank you for your response and answer.

Seeker
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FrankB

Down The Street vs2015 12-03-2014
Win7, AMD QuadA8-5500,16GB,2TeraHD, Komplete 10
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#101640 - 01/12/11 05:15 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ? [Re: seeker]
Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4969
Loc: California
Muzic Trax Offline
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Registered: 01/24/03
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Loc: California
Seeker,

In Realband, clicking on round button logo at beginning of (each) track, you can set up a "category." They are pre-set (Audio) DX Plug Ins for Vocal, Drums, Guitar, Sax etc . . .

Use those as a "starting" point for your FX. You can tweak them in the "mixer" area of RB. They will "sweeten" up the sound each instrument and give your mix a much better "sound" overall. They can really add some life to a mix.

Each subsetting usually starts with PG Dynamics etc . . .

In the far right of mixer (Aux , you can set a "Global" DX Plug and it will affect each tracks (Aux 1) send amount 0-128.

Ray Thigpen did a nice video tutorial on how to set up the Plug Ins. I believe he did it for PT, but RB behaves the same way.

Trax

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#101641 - 01/12/11 05:19 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ? [Re: Muzic Trax]
Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4969
Loc: California
Muzic Trax Offline
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Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4969
Loc: California
Also,

You use the 3000 for your midi patches. Make sure you have the patch list for it and have it installed.

The best way to mix down in RB is to convert your midi parts to individual wave files, either mono or stereo tracks. Then "mixdown" those with the RealTracks etc . . .

If you like the 3000's DSP FX, you can record those into the wave file or leave em dry and use PG's "Categories" as mentioned above.

Trax

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#101642 - 01/12/11 06:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ? [Re: Muzic Trax]
Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
seeker Offline
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Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
Trax,

Thanks for the heads up on the finer tuning and mix idea.
It does sound great. Have a little familiarity with DX plugins
used them with PTPro.

Having them available to each track is a big plus.

Now question in this regards.
Does the realdrums always default to track 9 ?

I'd like to have some of these setting created, then saved
so each time up dont have to re-do.

I know how to save an entire DX setup and recall, but would
even like to skip this with an "auto-load".

Later,

Seeker
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FrankB

Down The Street vs2015 12-03-2014
Win7, AMD QuadA8-5500,16GB,2TeraHD, Komplete 10
PG Ultra Plus 2016,Alesis 12USB, Sonar Platinum

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#101643 - 01/12/11 06:50 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ? [Re: seeker]
Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1616
Rachael Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1616
This is a handy guide for RealBand. Click here.

R

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#101644 - 01/12/11 07:47 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ? [Re: Rachael]
Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4969
Loc: California
Muzic Trax Offline
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Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 4969
Loc: California
Seeker,

I'm not sure if we can pre-set which tracks will use RT/RD's as a default? I know you can save your DX Plug In set ups as .tgs files though.

Click track 9 and use track/duplicate to copy the RD to the track of your choice. Then delete track 9.

Maybe Rharv will see this post and let us know about custom set ups. He is the PT/RB Guru and knows his stuff.

I mainly use Biab unless I want to actually record something to post on the net.

One other thing: When dealing with midi channels in RB: Don't forget to either re-channel or set the actual midi channel number in each track. The midi drums should play on track/channel 9 in RB since that is the channel number Yamaha uses for its percussion track on our keyboards.

Some people get track vs channel confused sometimes. You may have channel 3 playing on track 4 etc . . . They will be listed in the first column. If you record a midi track in RB it will set it to channel 0. That is where re-channel comes into affect. If you are working with a www midi file in RB, you may have to set the channel #'s in each track.

A type 0 midi file will usually ask to "send channels to tracks" type of command. You will want to separate the channels to tracks and have them id'd correctly for a proper mixdown situation.

I bet you are having fun with Biab and RB now? They really are some powerful programs when you get into the nuts and bolts of the software. The Real Tracks act like the Tyros 4 SA Voices We saved some greenbacks, thanks to PG & Staff.

Trax

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#101645 - 01/12/11 08:36 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ? [Re: Muzic Trax]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19071
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19071
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
I don't think Realdrums goes to "Track 9", but may be assigned to "Channel 9" (MIDI) if you set it up as such. I get realdrums generated in the first 8 tracks in many instances.

If you look at the graphic I posted in the thread linked below, you'll see Realdrums auto-generated on "Track 5" and another set I generated on Track 6. So The track number isn't assigned unless you are using the 'Extract Channels to Tracks' option Trax mentioned above. But again, that's MIDI, not 'realdrums'.

Thread with graphic-
http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=303970&Main=302536#Post303970


Edited by rharv (01/12/11 08:41 PM)
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#101646 - 01/12/11 10:42 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ? [Re: rharv]
Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
seeker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
Rharv,

I have not changed any of the factory settings for layouts.
I tried your link and for some reason it did not work.

Cropped photo of RB tracks.

Am actually pretty happy with progress so far, just having bit of
blankety-blank problems with my mixer and external stuff.

Folks above pointed out a few things to me, and also took my foot
out of a bad place so making decent progress.

This setting up sounds, balance, mixing internal and external is all
a real art form so more time will help me also.

There are so many subtle entities within all of your software, its very
easy to get stumped.

Thanks again,

Seeker
_________________________
FrankB

Down The Street vs2015 12-03-2014
Win7, AMD QuadA8-5500,16GB,2TeraHD, Komplete 10
PG Ultra Plus 2016,Alesis 12USB, Sonar Platinum

Top
#101647 - 01/13/11 08:37 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ? [Re: seeker]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19071
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19071
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
My link above goes to another thread with a picture posted down the thread a little.
It shows the classic tracks window Ian asked about.

I see now, you have the first 8 tracks as BiaB tracks, and then 9 gets the realdrums.

Yes, there is MUCH to learn along the way, and that makes it fun.
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Make your sound your own!

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#101648 - 01/13/11 02:46 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ? [Re: rharv]
Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
seeker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: 80 Mi North of Sacramento CA
rharv,

First of all, your website, makes me fell like a total infant....
Speaking for myself, and sure many others appreciate the help you and the
other "Pro's" unselfishly give us all.
Of course help is appreciated from all members. Not to exclude anyone sharing.

Fantastic site, layout, and of course your About page.

Anyway I still could not see the graphic in me FireFox....

On an off chance, I pasted the link into I.E. and did display the whole
thread with your graphics.

This is the second time in the last several weeks FF has given me a problem.

Been with it for years.

And yes it is fun(being retired helps).. Worked with Melodist a lot of hours yesterday, finding its
secrets, and trying to squeeze nice music out of it.

Thanks,

Seeker
_________________________
FrankB

Down The Street vs2015 12-03-2014
Win7, AMD QuadA8-5500,16GB,2TeraHD, Komplete 10
PG Ultra Plus 2016,Alesis 12USB, Sonar Platinum

Top
#101649 - 01/13/11 03:07 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: BIAB sound quality Versus Realband ? [Re: seeker]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19071
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19071
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
If you went to the site that is linked in my signature, thanks.

Another site I have that offers help is http://musicmastering.org

I had a few other mastering guys help with that one.
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