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Hi,

I'm a new player (less than a year) learning Rock, Blues, Jazz...

I have budget of about $500 for guitar education for the year....

After looking at the BiaB site... my thought was that that instead of getting any of the many guitar training cds/DVDs online... what if I just go get the Everything PAK or the OmniPak ...

My question is... How much can a relative beginner gain from the tutorials, riff paks, etc... as opposed to another product that is specifically guitar education...?

I'm not going to be recording for a while so I would mainly be using this as a practice / learning tool...

In looking at the site.. it looks like a no brainer that a beginner would be able learn a tremendous amount from this package (biab) even if they weren't going to be recording or writing music but rather using the tutorials and the play along ability...

I guess what I'm looking for is an opinion that this is a good way to go for a serious beginner... with a year under my belt .. its time to start playing with some backing music to time instead of just hacking away..

Thanks..

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I've been playing guitar for 45 years. I have even taught. BIAB helped me take my electric guitar playing to the place I've always wanted to go. I had a lot of head knowledge, but, as you surmise, putting it into action with a rock-solid rhythm section (albeit in a box, lol) will do wonders for you.

I can't think of a better way to use your education budget. IMO I'd get the UltraPlus Pak and an applicable bit of guitar software. (See Other Software on the home page.)

Welcome to a great community. I know others will chime in here, so you'll get a lot of perspective, and there will be plenty of help and advice from the friendliest forum I've found once you get started.

Richard


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For the beginning hack, and budget aside... does the audiophile edition make any sense?

Or will I be just as happy with the compressed files?

Thanks

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My opinions,

1.) audiophile not needed

2.) BIAB is great for creating backing tracks to jam along with

3.) The realtrack charts can show you what is being playing by the pro guitarists and you could learn from that.

4.) I haven't really used the guitar riffs stuff (but I have it), so I can't talk to that.

5.) BIAB is great if you want to start writing songs.

6.) No one can really answer your question -- it all depends on how you apply yourself.

7.) They always seem to have big discounts on BIAB in mid-summer and Christmas time.

Good luck -- it is a great product and one that I always recommend.

Kevin


Now at bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh @ bandcamp or soundcloud: Kevin @ soundcloud
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Yes.

As to 'discounts' at certain times, or the next version, it's relative.

Waiting months to buy something you want now but hey, it's like I'll get on the next bus, someday.

That said pg music has always been very good if like 3 weeks go by and ...well they are just fair in their treatment of the users.

To me, being able to jam along with something like Blowin in the Wind, and changing tempo and key to suit you, is invaluable.

I defy someone in their living room to discern Audiophile from Regular unless you have top pro gear.

At the end of the day, my Caruso 45 rpm records don't make him appear to be standing in my living room, but some of my band in a box stuff sounds like I've got guys in every corner spilling beer.

Someone wishes they'd flat the thirds, but that's just a minor annoyance. (Oh gee John good one...)


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Welcome Bob z,

I teach guitar and BiaB is my partner, both for my students and for myself. I make backing tracks for my students to practice with. I also do the same for myself; I like experimenting with styles I would never have used myself before BiaB. If you use midi backing tracks, note they will not sound as good as RealTracks if you are using an inexpensive GM sound source, you can very easily speed up or down the tempo without changing the pitch.

I agree with Kevin on all of his thoughts.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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So after looking at all the offerings and the responses here it looks like the OmniPak (regular edition) makes the most sense...

Once I get the Ultra Pak or Everything Pak and then add some of the "Other Software" the price gets up to be about the same... as the Omni Pak... and I would rather get it all loaded ... all done... no additional installation issues ... etc...

Just to confirm something... All of these additional Softwares listed under the Omni Pak are ALL included in the OmniPak ...correct?

http://www.pgmusic.com/products.win.htm

Thanks...

Really looking forward to getting this....

One last question... Is there any educational path within Biab... sort of a Roadmap ... not a tutorial on how to use Biab but more of a suggested sequential "to do" list for newbie players ...

... or is it a situation where THATS up to the student and/or the students instructor on what to concentrate on and Biab will provide the tools but not the educational agenda...?

I would think that that is the case.. BiaB can't determine a users needs... I guess thats what an instructor / coach is for... Biab provides the tools and the instructor provides the guidance regarding the path...

For an instructor it seems ... to have a student on Biab would be like the Holy Grail of an educational situation...

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The help files are filled with tutorials that are numbered in a normal sequence. The site is filled with additional video tutorials that are not so sequencial but by the time you get there you should be able to decide what is important to you and what is not.

And yeh, all of that stuff (a lot that you won't use for a long time if ever) is included in the package!

I have tons of software but I keep coming back to BIAB and in fact would say it is the center piece of my studio and my work flow. Go for it and you will be hooked for life.


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Quote:

Hi,

I'm a new player (less than a year) learning Rock, Blues, Jazz...

I have budget of about $500 for guitar education for the year....









We certainly all have to live within our own budgets.
And I am a huge fan of Band in a Box.
All of us learn in different ways.
But I would be amiss if I didn't express that my firm belief is that the best and most effient way to learn to play an instrument is to take private lessons with an excellent local teacher.
Unfortunately that would come to a lot more than $500 in a year.

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This is where I get pompous, arrogant and downright snooty and play devil's advocate.

I have a lot of issues with the extremely young kids these days and music lessons. Nobody learns "music" anymore. Nobody learns the chord wheel, nobody learns how to read, nobody learns theory. They all know where the "Start" button is that plays other people's work. I was in a music store last fall and there was one of those speedburner losers playing hammer-ons all up and down the neck of a Les Paul. When he was finishing impressing himself I sarcastically said "Cool. Now can you show me a B flat major 7th?" I can't post his reply here or I'd be banned.

When I started in April of 1955 at 4 yrs and 10 months of age, I was not permitted to sit at the piano for 6 weeks. I sat at a chalkboard looking at a music staff and a plastic keyboard mock up. He would point to a line or a space and I had to show him the right key on the fake keyboard. I had to know what 1 flat meant, and 2 sharps..... I had to identify where the half steps and whole steps were on a keyboard for the different key signatures. I had to know chord formulas for major, minor, 7th, diminished...

None of that happens anymore. Kids take lessons and learn songs, not music. That is sad.

The band I play the annual reunion shows with now is 10 pieces. 7 of those 10 have music degrees. It is such a joy to play with schooled musicians who understand the theory of why things happen.

Now, obviously, experience is a great teacher as well, and this doesn't take away from the value of playing for many years. My point is that every house has to have a solid foundation, and formal training is that foundation.

So, to the original poster, I would take some of your budget, find a good teacher to teach you theory, and take that framework and develop it. BIAB is a GREAT product and a GREAT tool, but it is a LOT easier to use BIAB when you know from theory what chords relate to each other, time signatures, chord voicing, transposition, etc....

Just my dime and what worked for me.

Last edited by eddie1261; 04/14/11 03:55 PM.

I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Bob Z Offline OP
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Just with my limited experience I couldn't agree more.... As part of my search for my first guitar and amp I made several obligatory visits to the local GC on a Saturday... Bad idea... half a dozen youngins ripping off licks at break neck speeds ... and after a few played chords.. I interjected

..."What chord is that?" answer: "I don't know, but it goes like this"....

From what I see the majority of people that are playing... (not professionals or serious students) either want to play a song because its a "cool" song... or they want to look "cool" mimicking their guitar idol... Somebody told me that without an understanding of theory and a thorough understanding of the fretboard layout.. if one is just learning hand positions they are in effect becoming a "guitar monkey"... "Do this, then that and then this... repeat it twice and that's the song".....

Lather, rinse and repeat. Sort of like a "cut and paste" mentality...

I had a year subscription this year with Trufire (now Next Level Guitar) that both have a fairly good amount of lesson theory...I really enjoyed it... so much so that I spent more time reading that and figuring it out on the fretboard of my guitar... To be fair to the GC youngins ripping their licks... the expectation to the general public isn't "show me what theory you know" .... its more "Oh you are learning guitar, Great! Play me a song"....

That happened to me the other day... my brother comes over and says "play a song"... When I tell him that I'm learning theory and haven't learned or studied individual songs... He says... "You have been doing this for 9 months and can't play a song(?) .. I guess its not working out for you!"

An SOB yes... but my point is that to the huddled masses, the uninitiated .. the clueless... they look at and grade success or failure based on whether you can play "Stairway to Heaven" or "Sweet Home Alabama".... (depends on what side of the Mason Dixon line you were born I suppose)

There is a ton of free videos on theory... For a beginner.. these were great... sort of reminds me of my grade school teachers...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXIEmMDwc7E&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqGKVjPnHlY&feature=related

But I agree... taking theory with a real theorist should / will be part of my plan......

As an aside... now that I have an amp with a great gain channel... I finally understand why alot of people play the heavier styles... an awesome gain channel covers up a lot of my bad technique...!

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Hi Bob
I play a lot of instruments I started on cornet and trumpet, then guitar, then sax and now keyboards. I play all styles including a lot of rock and blues mostly on sax but also guitar.

Lets get one thing out of the way BAIB will be your best ever purchase apart frrom your guitar - get it. Its got its fiobles but its absolutely great for you in so many ways. BIAB will make you want to play with a band and it will help you find out how you can achieve this.

Firstly you should know that there are different ways to learn any instrument.

1] The 'classical' route (and I dont mean just for classical music) if I can call it that, starts with some kind of tutor book a bunch of notation and set exercises. There are many limitations to this method. Its not very good at teaching your ears to hear things, also when the paper is taken away the student tends to fumble and fall over. Many 'classicaly trained' students simply cant play a note unless it is written down by somebody else. I dont think you want that do you? The classical route wont give you what you need for rock

2] The "By ear" route

With this route you simply sit by your record play (or Biab) and plunk away until you get a nice riff, repeatedly until you can make your way through a song. There are many good players that learn this way, but ask them to play a C# diminished and they fall off their stool.

3] I could call this the 'Jazz method'.

A jazz player can read music, but also understands harmony. Therefore when he learns that lick A works with bar 1 he also knows that lick A can work with bar 17, and in a lot of other song settings, he/shje will also know how to alter that lick to make it sound even better. By reading chord symbols and impovising over them,(S)he learns to free his music from the tyranny of the written note.

Obviously, these three distinctions are just stereotypes, and one can use a mixture of all ways, but many beginner rock players need help with theory. My tip is start with the blues and dont be afraid to delve into a bit of Jazz to gain that deeper understanding.

A common mistake beginner guitarist (and classical players) make is that they think they can dispense with harmonic theory - this is a very handicapping mistake, better never play a single note until you understand why its there.

This book will give you as strong theory background

Volume 1 - How To Play Jazz & Improvise Jamey Aebersold Jazz Series

Its a great accompanying volume to BIAB

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Quote:

None of that happens anymore. Kids take lessons and learn songs, not music. That is sad.




As usual, blanket statements are usually inaccurate -- and this one is inaccurate.


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Quote:

Quote:

None of that happens anymore. Kids take lessons and learn songs, not music. That is sad.




As usual, blanket statements are usually inaccurate -- and this one is inaccurate.




Not totally.

I know a few “guitar instructors” around who teach just songs. Also some kid’s parents expect them to learn songs! I’ve had a couple of parents get upset at me because after a couple of months of lessons they were not playing “Stairway to Heaven”, i.e. I teach them to read music followed by theory. They always say “but my friends kid takes lessons from ‘instructor x’ and he’s playing songs already and he’s only been taking a few months.”

Fortunately for me about 95% of the kids I teach have parents who understand the importance of learning to read music. The other 5% don’t stay around long because my teaching philosophy is my way or the highway.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

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Bobby Z,

One caveat, a sort of warning, about BIAB. Get a pad and paper. You'll need it for two reasons.

First, WRITE DOWN A BRIEF STATEMENT OF WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WITH BIAB. Put that piece of paper somewhere that you can see it whenever you're using the program. Here's why.

BIAB is the deepest piece of consumer software I have come across. So far I haven't found bottom. That's a good thing and a bad thing. The bad thing is that you will keep finding new features. In the process of chasing them down you may lose sight of what you were trying to do in the first place. That's what the first piece of paper is for.

The good news is that some of those features will lead you to things you never would have thought of on your own. You want the rest of that pad of paper so you can write down questions as they come up so that you can pursue the answers in an organized fashion. Otherwise you may be continually distracted by the neat new things you will find (and keep finding) on the way to your musical bliss.

I offer my own experience as a somewhat extreme example. I bought BIAB in the early 1990s in order to quickly create song demos. It's a fantastic tool for that and does it very well. In the process of pushing buttons, though--mainly changing Styles--BIAB began to do some unexpected things to my songs. In effect, it started suggesting changes in my music.

Good news and bad news again. I have all abandoned my former pop songwriting attempts. I now use BIAB as I would a hardware sequencer, creating electronic backings for my electric blues playing. I never would have thought of it on my own, and I'll never go back. In effect, BIAB has become a co-composer. (While I primarily work in MIDI, I have fooled around with Real Styles enough to know that the same principle applies.)

So, WATCH OUT! Unless you do this in an organized fashion, you may wonder what hit you. I mean that in a good way.

Again, welcome to the community. I look forward to seeing you grow with us and with BIAB.

Richard


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Funny Ryzard, But I have found it the other way round. I have had BIAB for a long time too and never use any of the detail - because - I am just too busy playing.
At most I bung in a few chords and pick a style. I would like to record though, but thats another story. What BIAB has done for me has focussed me back on actually playing


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Hi Bob,

you have received many good tips what to do. I summarize and include my opinion.

1. Wait until December. Usually pgmusic offers a bargain. It's usually about 200 bucks cheaper than during the year.

If you can wait that long:

2. Take one or two guitar lessons to have a teacher evaluate your technique and your abilities. Ask that teacher what and how to practice until you come back next year.

3. If you have some money left, buy a guitar teaching DVD set of the music genre that you like to play -- but not your major preference. You will practise, and listen to, your major preference anyway, so you may have another influence on your playing.

4. practice, practice, practice. If you have a chance to play a gig, do it. There is no better practice than playing four hours on a stage.

Best regards.
Guido


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Yes. Very important for me to identify the agenda... while I want to play for enjoyment.. I also want to have clear thought out goals and put the regimen together to hit that goal... I can't wait to get started with this..

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I don't want to wait until December... I feel that I need to get started sooner... As far as DVDs I just got a set yesterday... http://www.nextlevelguitar.com/delta/

I am going to look for a local instructor to evaluate where I am at... which I sort of already know... Pentatonic box position level... working on my chord vocabulary and chord progressions... but yes definitely to sitting down with an instructor!

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I can't add much, you're on the right track with a good attitude. One thing: Ask any potential instructor if they use Biab. A lot of them do, it's in music schools all over the world. If you were local to Redondo Beach I would refer you to a great guitar teacher I gig with and he uses Biab with his students. That would be ideal for you for obvious reasons.

Bob


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Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!

If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.

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"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."

"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."

"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."

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Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

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