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I moved over to this new thread.

eddie1261 sent me a file to see if his problem rendering was due to file corruption. Here are the song details:

****** Song Summary *************
Title: lie to myself
File:lie to myself.MGU
Key=C , Tempo 104, Length (m:s)=7:10
No intro. 245 bar chorus, from bar 1 to bar 245. Repeat x1 chorus
No Melody
Soloist track has 33 notes, Soloist harmony is < no harmony >(0)
Song is saved with Volume, Pan, Reverb, Chorus, Bank0,
Soloist is saved with the song : PedalSteel,Background Ev 65 (369)
Style is _CWALZPS.STY (Country Waltz with Pedal Steel)
Style MIDI Instruments are :
RealTracks in style: ~~1122:Bass, Acoustic, CountryWaltz Sw 110
RealTracks in style: 1298:Pedal Steel, Rhythm CountryWaltz Sw 140
RealTracks in style: ~~827:Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming Country Waltz Sw 110
RealTracks in style: ~~826:Guitar, Acoustic, Fingerpicking Country Waltz Sw 110
RealDrums in Style: NashClassicWaltzSw^1-HHSdSt,RdSn
*******************

At 245 bars it is just shy of the 255 max limit - but still within limits.
I loaded the file and immediately showed the yellow bar telling me some RTs were adjusting. Slipped by so quick I'm not sure exactly what it said but something about RTs not being found.. I played it - nice slow country waltz with lots of RTs.

I rendered to wav which resulted in a 36.5 MB wav file which on first pass sounded fine.

I did take several minutes, maybe 4 - 5 minutes on my DAW (system details below).

So whats the answer???


PS I can made a video of the workflow if that would help - it is a little more complex then just pushing a button, the video would show what button and how I push it...


Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper

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Thank you Dan for looking at it, and your reply generated questions. I prefer not to use codas and repeats, so rather than have my songs loop back via coda to play the same melody passage or same chorus passage I just write the measures again. Is THAT an issue?

Now, I never get to the step where it finishes rendering for me to try and load it into my Sonar. It sits for about 90 seconds, and then I get a "not responding" error and the screen whites out. Sometimes I can stop it in task manager, more often I have to restart the laptop.

Did you also try to "drop" it using the drop button? I get the same freeze up problem when I try to go that route.

So, logic... if YOU can render it, logic says it isn't the file. By week's end I will have my new Dell desktop. That means I will install BIAB fresh on a new computer, not install ANY other programs, and that computer will not be on my home network. No chance of the old scapegoat "you must have a virus or spyware" exit strategy.

We'll see.....


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Quote:

Thank you Dan for looking at it, and your reply generated questions. I prefer not to use codas and repeats, so rather than have my songs loop back via coda to play the same melody passage or same chorus passage I just write the measures again. Is THAT an issue?




Not that I am aware of since it is within the 255 limit.

Quote:


Now, I never get to the step where it finishes rendering for me to try and load it into my Sonar. It sits for about 90 seconds, and then I get a "not responding" error and the screen whites out. Sometimes I can stop it in task manager, more often I have to restart the laptop.

Did you also try to "drop" it using the drop button? I get the same freeze up problem when I try to go that route.?




In my mind it is about two things... 1) workflow and 2) horsepower. BIAB has got a half dozen ways to do essentially the same thing. You have to find the way that works for you. And you need a kick ass DAW (not sure this second item is really necessary, but it don't hurt)


Quote:


So, logic... if YOU can render it, logic says it isn't the file. By week's end I will have my new Dell desktop. That means I will install BIAB fresh on a new computer, not install ANY other programs, and that computer will not be on my home network. No chance of the old scapegoat "you must have a virus or spyware" exit strategy.
We'll see.....





Good luck with the new Dell. My work bench which I sit at has three (3) Dells all up and running as I speak.

And I will put together the video of this render so you can see exactly the buttons I push and how I push them. give me a few days for this.


Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper

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Quote:

So, logic... if YOU can render it, logic says it isn't the file. By week's end I will have my new Dell desktop. That means I will install BIAB fresh on a new computer, not install ANY other programs, and that computer will not be on my home network. No chance of the old scapegoat "you must have a virus or spyware" exit strategy.

We'll see.....




Careful Eddie, your logic is now pointing to your computer as the weak link. Does this mean you are a BIAB believer again??


Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper

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DAW has become another buzzword that gets tossed around a lot without a clear definition. I always defined Digital Audio Workstation as the software I use with a minor consideration of the computer it is running on. If you accept that as a workable definition, then let me report that the computer is a Dell 2.2ghz dual core laptop with 4gb of RAM. I likely have more computer there than half the users on this forum.

The software component is Sonar 7.0.2

I really don't want to have to go back to Sonar and playing every note into every measure, tapping in drum parts, etc.... this is why I bought BIAB. However, if I am going to spend most of my time reinstalling BIAB, resetting to factory defaults (the other popular bandwagon reply to every problem posted), and generally fooling around when I am supposed to be writing, then trying to use this software was a waste of my time and my money.

It simply needs to be FAR more user friendly.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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AND, I still don't know why "Drop" doesn't work.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Quote:

DAW has become another buzzword that gets tossed around a lot without a clear definition. I always defined Digital Audio Workstation as the software I use with a minor consideration of the computer it is running on.




Certainly don't want to be argumentative (this forum is way above that and it is certainly not my style), but for sake of discussion, this is definitely not my definition of a DAW. I would include the hardware as an essential element in the design of a DAW.

While I was running BIAB on old 386 and 486 machines when it was all midi, these new audio files are a different world. I also had ProTools v5 through v8.1 up and running and this all audio files. This was my exposure to a system which was highly dependent on the hardware. If you didn't have it right, it would not run. I decided long ago that this type of "electronic music making" was something I needed to incoporate into my music. So I made the hardware a priority.

Just one mans opinion.


Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper

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Quote:

AND, I still don't know why "Drop" doesn't work.




I did do it with your file and it worked as a drag and drop to the desktop. it tookd about 5 minutes adn resulted in a 78Mb wav file.


Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper

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Also, although the software for a DAW is critical, some software only runs on a certain platform. SONAR only runs on a PC. Digital Performer, another fine program, only runs on a MAC. ProTools only runs if you have an 'approved' hardware interface. The hardware you are running limits your software choices.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Oh absolutely not looking to be argumentative. The frustration comes from why only one specific feature doesn't work when everything else does. That would indicate that my hardware is sufficient, would it not?And Sonar is a highly respected and very commonly used software package, which I used for the last 2 years until someone showed me BIAB and convinced me it wasn't cheating. LOL!!

And I DO understand that responders on all of these threads are doing their best to be helpful, as I have tried to be helpful where I could. However, when the answers really have no basis in computer tech-side fact, like the ubiquitous "update the driver" stuff, I know better. Drivers SHOULD be kept up to date, but they do not HAVE to be if the current driver does not cause consistent issues across many apps. Yet go back to the "video smear" thread and see how many people dug their heels in and posted that the video driver just "had" to be the issue. Finally PG released a patch, indicating that the video driver had nothing to do with it.

Point being is that I know my hardware is sufficient. And if it worked for you, apparently I AM doing it wrong and will go print out the help files on how to render to wav and follow it letter by letter. I REALLY want to "drop" it so I have separate tracks in Sonar, but one step at a time.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Hi Eddie,

What DXi synth do you have selected for rendering? (Left-click on the DXi icon and the synth will be listed in the top slot.)

Some other thoughts that occurred to me are ...

1. When a song file is rendered, as you probably already know, it's put in the same directory that the BIAB file is in. If you are using your USB drive as the song's location, this means that the rendered wav will be put on the USB drive. With this in mind, I'd try creating a directory on a hard drive, copying the song file there, opening it from the new directory, generating the tracks (wait 30 secs or so until they are fully generated) and then running render just to see if there is different behavior for this new location. (If you are not using the USB as your song file location, though, please ignore the above!)

2. Have you tried creating a simple 8-bar song and then running render to see if it works on the smaller file?

3. Have you tried disabling UAC (User Account Control) and then running render to see if it makes a difference?

I sympathize with your Eddie and can completely understand your frustration. The above thoughts are nothing more than things that I'd try out. Doing so might help shed a little more light on your situation.

Kind regards,
Noel


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Eddie,

One of the tasks that has worked almost flawlessly for me is the rendering in BB. Sometimes if I test a song just before rendering, the Realtracks can be shaky, playback is scratchy etc., but not the rendered version. Beats me.

When the rendering process did fail in BB, I opened the project in RB and successfully rendered it.
Maybe this is something you could look at.

Percy

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Thanks for replying. Answering each question separately.

Quote:



What DXi synth do you have selected for rendering? (Left-click on the DXi icon and the synth will be listed in the top slot.)





The default is GS I believe. I left it alone.

Quote:


1. When a song file is rendered, as you probably already know, it's put in the same directory that the BIAB file is in. If you are using your USB drive as the song's location, this means that the rendered wav will be put on the USB drive.





All that would do is make me wait for the port speed of the USB vs the bus speed of the motherboard, butt hat should not make it fail, as I am sure many do it that way. I do not, however. I installed the product and then put the external drive away in a closet.

Quote:


2. Have you tried creating a simple 8-bar song and then running render to see if it works on the smaller file?





I did not for this reason. 8 bars, 32 bars, 64 bars.... should not matter. If the function is freezing me up, it will freeze up as soon as that subroutine launches and never get to the data.

Quote:


3. Have you tried disabling UAC (User Account Control) and then running render to see if it makes a difference?





That is the first thing i do when I get a new computer. That annoying "Do you want to allow this?" crap is yet another example of Micro$oft attempting to take over the world. AND, that would not matter once you make the annoying extra click to allow. Windows Defender is something I find equally offensive and that immediately gets disabled as well.

I will revisit this given your input and see what I find. Since that stream of frustrated posts, what I have found is that while BIAB will indeed ghost out and show to be not responding, if I walk away to the bathroom or the fridge for a diet Pepsi refill, when I come back I find that the file HAS rendered out to a wav. My issue now is making the Sonar program play it back, which takes the onus off BIAB and puts it on to me assigning the right I/O in Sonar.

This user base here is top notch. We appreciate all of you long timers helping us. I have only had this program a few months and do not work up in the studio every day (like I should) so my experience is limited. I am computer strong but not up to speed yet on this particular software. Everyone's input has been so valuable that I can't find words to describe it.


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Quote:

What DXi synth do you have selected for rendering? (Left-click on the DXi icon and the synth will be listed in the top slot.)




Quote:

The default is GS I believe. I left it alone.




Eddie, after all the back and forth in several threads about your problems, you don't know what a DXi synth is?? With respect buddy, if you think "the default is GS" is an answer to that question then you don't have a clue what you're doing. You need to answer that question in detail. And, where are all the details of you're setup? MME or ASIO? Any external hardware interface if so which one? What drivers are selected in your midi and audio input/output windows. All that kind of stuff, man.

Bob


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Quote:


Quote:


2. Have you tried creating a simple 8-bar song and then running render to see if it works on the smaller file?





I did not for this reason. 8 bars, 32 bars, 64 bars.... should not matter. If the function is freezing me up, it will freeze up as soon as that subroutine launches and never get to the data.





Eddie, I know you are computer savvy but in this case maybe a little too savvy (no offense intended here). The fact you haven't tried a suggestion because you are convinced it couldn't be the problem may be hurting your chances of finding the problem.

Trying a short song and finding it works while a long one didn't may have indicated a problem with buffer overrun either in physical or virtual buffers. It was certainly a suggestion worth taking.

From your more recent replies it seems your system is working, albeit slowly. There are a number of OS settings that may speed up the rendering process. DMA access, ASIO buffer size, hardware acceleration etc. You might look into some of those settings. Also look at your HD specs. What RPM, physical buffer size.

Hope some of these ideas help. And remember BiaB is working well on thousands of setups so, while it may have a few glitches and may not work perfectly on all platforms it DOES work.

Paul


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Bob, my in and out are both set to the M-Audio Fast Track Pro. And MME.

And you are right. I don't have a clue about this latest wave of acronyms. DXi? The last I remember about anything similar to DXi was the DX7 I owned in the late 80s. DAW? I know it means Digital Audio Workstation. Can I just call it "the computer I have dedicated to running my studio hardware and software" and have that mean the same thing? I know that VSTs are virtual studio technology. Can I just call them software synths, like the Prophet 5 and B3 software synths I have?

This is like when landscapers want to sound more important than they are and use words like "plant materials". Um, Guido, they are called "flowers". KISS.

So to answer your question more directly, whatever the default Microsoft GS Wavetable synth is that is populated in that field by default, that's what is there now. I did not change it. If it worked to create the sounds, why would I ever need to change it for any reason? Another way to say it, nothing changes from when I create the song to when I try to render it out to wav. And that is where the frustration level rises. Is that process not intuitive enough to read what it has to work with and just "work" with whatever when I click on the command?

When it gets to point that it is less hassle to coordinate 4 other people to just come to my house and play the stuff live to record it, then software is of no use to me. And the trump card? 3 people have told me something different I am doing wrong in 3 separate emailed replies. So what is the "right"answer?

Revisiting the initial issue, writing the songs is no problem once they fixed the video smear bug. That was the only issue I had with creation was the screen not scrolling properly. That is what led to people telling me that the video driver on my (then) 107 day old Dell computer (with Windows 7 64 bit and the HUGE driver pool it comes with) was already out of date and that just HAD to be the problem. I enter the chord progressions, cut, paste, edit, solos.... yada yada yada. Everything is fine. I play it back, add my live instruments as I record to the Tascam 8 track. Everything is fine. The issue here started when rendering to wav, and using the drop feature to move my songs to Sonar 7, which has indeed been kept up to date and has the latest revisions. I don't even know why I care to do that, but if the software does it, I should know how to do it, right? I have gotten by this long with BIAB only because that is all I use it for, making demos to send to the players. Now that I am trying to expand my knowledge and horizons I am running in to issues that help files do not address in clear language and need the human touch.

And I checked with Akron U and they have no degree program in BIAB, so....


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
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Hi Eddie,

1. You need to be using a DXi or VST synth (to render MIDI anyway). Open up the MIDI Drivers dialog, and make sure that "Use VST/DXi Synth" is checked, and also that a synth is selected (e.g. CoyoyeWT - GM Wavetable.

2. If you want to Drag to Sonar, you first Drag to the Drop Station (the button at the top left that says "Drop"). ONce that area turns bright green, the file is ready, and you then drag from there to Sonar. An alternative is to drag directly from the program to WIndows Explorer, and then you can drag from Explorer to Sonar.


Have Fun!
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Eddie, here's a little example of how an application can work on one system and not on another.

I own an agricultural testing lab. I write most of my own data aqusition and managment software. I wrote an app to read data from the RS-232 serial port. It worked flawlessly on two PCs and crashed while closing on five others. It had me going crazy for a while since the code executing was exactly the same.

Anyway, the cause turned out to be the third party serial port drivers. There is a windows callback routine that an app can listen in to to decide when the driver has disconnected. Some manufacturers didn't use this callback as suggested by MS so tha app could close with the driver still in use which caused a system crash on some but not all PCs.

This was clearly not the fault of my app or of the OS. It fell squarely on the hardware manufacturers. Their sloppy programing meant I had to write a five second delay into my app to give all drivers time to close.

I hope this gives you an idea how BiaB might fail under some circumstances through no fault of PGMusic.

In cases like this it's best to try and find some work around or try a different PC if at all possible.


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Quote:

Bob, my in and out are both set to the M-Audio Fast Track Pro. And MME.

And you are right. I don't have a clue about this latest wave of acronyms. DXi? The last I remember about anything similar to DXi was the DX7 I owned in the late 80s. DAW? I know it means Digital Audio Workstation. Can I just call it "the computer I have dedicated to running my studio hardware and software" and have that mean the same thing? I know that VSTs are virtual studio technology. Can I just call them software synths, like the Prophet 5 and B3 software synths I have?




Nope. Digital audio has it's own vocabulary and you must, repeat must know it or none of this will work for you. The default GS Wavetable is not a DXi synth and you need to know the difference and why. It's in the PG manual, the Biab help file and it's been posted countless times here. That's your problem with the render process.

Quote:

And I checked with Akron U and they have no degree program in BIAB, so....




Exactly. How many times have you seen me post we're on our own here? It's up to you to learn this stuff, I won't say there's no courses, there are. They're called professional audio engineering courses and will cost you 50-90K depending on what university you go to. The graduates are then able to scrounge an unpaid intern job in a Hollywood studio for who knows how long before they're allowed to touch anything in the control room. They also learn what a DXi synth is.

This forum and others like it are all you have.

Let me add something else. You mentioned VST. Some synths are only one or the other, DXi or VSTi and some are both. Biab and RB will use both but some synths work better as one version or another. There's posts about that too. Example, load it as a DXi (the "i" stands for instrument, no "i" and it's an effect plug in. Something else you need to know and use as proper vocabulary) and it has glitches but load it as a VSTi and it works flawlessly. This crops up with other DAW's too, not just Real Band.

Don't ask me boss, I just use the stuff.

Bob

Last edited by jazzmammal; 06/08/11 11:54 AM.

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...This forum and others like it are all you have.




Good news is that this is generally enough for us to get by.

Oh, boy just wait till you see the training video I am doing on rendering to wav in BIAB, talk about the blind leading the blind


Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper

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Regular hours resume Monday, April 1st - no joke!

Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

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