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#123728 - 08/01/11 06:51 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Okay, I officially quit
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4404
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4404
After chatting in another forum, I went to try Real Band. Okay first of all, the interface is completely different and I have no idea what I am doing. All I knew was "Play", so I hit.

Now, when playing the song in BIAB, there was an acceptable guitar solo at bar 51. Playing the same file in RB, there was n solo at all. And now the part that made me just power everything off and give up on this program.

I played with that song for 20 minutes. Okay, that is important. 20 minutes. In those 20 minutes I stopped and started that song a good 8-10 times, using the location slider to go to bar 49 and start from there to see where the hell my solo went. Again, remember twenty minutes.

On the next restart, I got an error message and a crash that my ASIO drivers were not correctly installed.

Well, apparently for the previous 20 minutes they WERE correctly installed because I was playing the song over and over and over and over.

Now, this is why I no longer care.

I know WHAT those ASIO drivers are, I just don't understand either the relevance of what driver is pushing my audio out and why BIAB/RB would suddenly decide that they were incorrectly installed AFTER USING THEM FOR TWENTY MINUTES!!!!!

I quit. I am just going to sketch out my rough tracks like I have been doing, send the stuff off to the players and be done with it.

As long as I have been around computers, and at an enterprise level, there is NO WAY a piece of software should dictate that you have to use "Jim's Driver" or it will not work. That is what the whole "net neutrality" fracas was about. And the fact that this happened 20 minutes in.

If my drivers were "incorrectly installed" (and NOTHING on my computer is "incorrectly installed") does logic not say that they would have failed the first time I hit play, not the 10th? My drivers did not go bad after 19:59 and fail at the 20th minute. A piece of software can not "decide" when it will fail.

At any rate, never mind. BIAB for rough skeleton demos and done. It's not like I would release anything created by a computer anyway. I just thought I could make better demos for my guys with RB but it is another 3 months of learning curve that I don't have, and it is apparently buggy.
_________________________
I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will pretty much be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#123729 - 08/01/11 07:57 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: eddie1261]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4166
Loc: California
Robh Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4166
Loc: California
works like a champ here. I can open Biab files directly and play them.

I can hightlight a section and right click and add a solo at any and every pointy i want. i can add one in three, four, whatever tracks i want, and demo them all and pick the one i want.

RB does run on ASIO, but they are not necessary. The MME drivers are actually WDM drivers, and work very nicely for me on RB. I can't tell the difference over ASIO really.

20 minutes? Really?

Seriously Eddie you are missing the big picture here. I will be home in about an hour If you want I could shadow your screen and setup RB. It will really open the door for you.
_________________________
Toshiba dual core Win 7 8 gig ram, BiaB, Realband, Studio one Professional, Melodyne, Gibson S-1, Carvin 980 Cobalt acoustic, Ovation legend 12 string, jazz bass clone, Fender Mustang III amp, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL interface, TC Helicon voiceworks.

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#123730 - 08/01/11 08:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: Robh]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4404
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4404
Thing is Rob, you highlighted a section where? I didn't have a scrolling chart like in BIAB. I had a mixer on my screen and a bunch of cryptic icons that did nothing and then I got that error, muttered an obscenity loud enough to scare my dog, and quit trying.
_________________________
I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will pretty much be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#123731 - 08/01/11 09:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: eddie1261]
Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 300
Loc: Tx. USA winter/ Sask. Canada, ...
johnnyo34 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 300
Loc: Tx. USA winter/ Sask. Canada, ...
Hey Eddie would you mind telling me what Style you used for "Do It All Again",
thanks

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#123732 - 08/02/11 01:11 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: eddie1261]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6618
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Online   content
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6618
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Great minds and all that Eddie. I'm better with RB than you are and your problem is probably something fairly simple but still, I just finished posting my own rant in my RB bug report thread. It's true that sometimes RB does some strange things that don't make sense and it will piss you off but to be fair it mostly works well. You should have heard that solo. One thing to remember is RB is a linear sequencer, Biab allows you to do chorus repeats and 1st/2nd endings. RB ignores those so bar whatever in Biab may not be the same bar number in RB. I can't help you with that ASIO error I never get that, ASIO works fine for me. I know you're not in the mood for it now but let Rob link up with you. That's a very generous offer and you could learn a lot.

You're an active player like me and neither one of us has the time to be wasting a whole afternoon going on a bug hunt when we're trying to get some work done. I feel your pain and like you I've had it with RB for one night so I'm not going to try to help you right now, maybe later.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#123733 - 08/02/11 01:57 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: jazzmammal]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4404
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4404
Rob remoted in and was a HUGE help. What he showed me is all working fine. What we did not do is record real time audio. I checked everything and the interface is set up as BIAB/RB says it should be, yet the VU meters show no input when I have a key on the keyboard taped down playing a note and I can hear it through the mix. Either I have something physical set wrong (which I doubt because I can hear the keyboard) or some setup, though the track is set to audio, it is on the right side of my interface (1-2 rather than 3-4) and Windows is correctly set up to use this as the recording device.

As I said earlier, this kind of thing makes me want to see everything I own and never play music again.

I once said in a ranting post, we need "simple mode".

Click here to do this.
Click here to do that.

I am not at 90 minutes trying to make the VU meters see my input, and my interface is showing me the input from the keyboard just fine.

90 minutes.

The help files are worthless. They say what to check but nothing about when everything checks to be right and it still doesn't work. When you do what the help says and it still doesn't work, it isn't my fault anymore. Watching the little green signal light on my M-Audio Fast Track Pro flashing away and getting madder with every flash.

Oh well, back to the help and GUESS what search string I should use for this. I do know "record" is no good, "audio" is no good, "RealBand" is no good..... let me go try "salami".
_________________________
I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will pretty much be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#123734 - 08/02/11 07:15 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: eddie1261]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7252
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7252
Well I have over 200 songs done in RB and had been playing out with it 3 nights a week.Not your answer but it's not totally the progs fault either.
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ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
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#123735 - 08/02/11 07:44 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: silvertones]
Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 1543
Loc: Ireland
Happy Birthday musiclover Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 1543
Loc: Ireland
Hello Eddie,

Like you I have been very frustrated with realband at times. Overall I find it a buggy program given to freeaing up and crashing. As a well known poster once described it on these forums as rather like "My first DAW"

I usually use cubase to mix and what I do find realband invaluable for is creating multiple tracks of realtracks which I will then import into cubase (I don't bother with that drag and drop thing)

If you want the vocal harmonizer then you will need to use realband for that as well.

I think if you use biab to pick your style demo a few of the realtracks that you want, then create multiple tracks of these realtracks in realband save the project to .wav, then import it itno your regular DAW software and do everything there, you will find your workflow well speeded up.

The mixer in cubase is a joy to work with compared to realband I find though others will swear that realband is a the only DAW software that they require.

Overall I don't know realband that well but I know enough to reach the conclussion that there is no way that I will start and finish a song in it.

Like your songs in the user showcase by the way.

musiclover
_________________________
Musiclover

My music https://www.youtube.com/user/donegalprideofall

Windows 7 (32bit) and 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro,Band in a Box 2018 Cubase 5.0 and Cubase elements 7.0.

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#123736 - 08/02/11 07:56 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: musiclover]
Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Mac Offline
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Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 38502
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Fro the record, I have yet to find a multitrack audio/MIDI software platform that does not A) require you to learn how things are done in that particular program (and ALL of 'em do the same things differently) and B) does not occasionally present a problem to me that stops the creative juices and requires me to change hats. Which can be frustrating to do, as you generally always lose the creative thang you were after at the time.

I've also never encountered any of these programs where, provided it is my first experience with the particular program, anything serious could be accomplished on that first run. I used to always tell people that you've got to be willing to spend the time and "shake it down" before starting any attempt to work on your masterpiece. Try putting together a dumb cover song or something, use that to work out any bugs and also to gain whatever experience is needed to make it work *before* you risk your creative work to the thing.

Or be frustrated.


--Mac
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#123737 - 08/02/11 08:02 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: musiclover]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
OK, the VU's aren't showing the signal but you can hear it; did you actually try to record?

The VU's only show the default in/outs. Those are the ones at the top of the driver list. If you have the second one down highlited the VU's won't work. That's what the 'Move selected device to top' button does. It makes the chosen device move to the top of the list so it is the default and the VUs work. You can record without the VU's, but if you want them you need to make your device the default device in RB.

As for your solo, RB does not support the 'soloist' track in BiaB to my knowledge. It works more like a DAW than an accompaniment program. You would have to highlite the section you want the solo in and generate it by right-clicking the track. Or save the solo from BiaB to its own wav file and use 'Audio - import wave file' in RB.
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Make your sound your own!

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#123738 - 08/02/11 10:26 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: rharv]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4166
Loc: California
Robh Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4166
Loc: California
Rharv we did all that and was partially succesfull

We were able to drag the solo over , but it would not generate that particular solo Brent 1513, and we tried more than one track. We could generate other real tracks

I have had this before, where one track would not generate.

Also i did the setup and listed M-Audio 1/2 as the in and out, and clicked move to top of list.

Does the VUs work if not recording?
_________________________
Toshiba dual core Win 7 8 gig ram, BiaB, Realband, Studio one Professional, Melodyne, Gibson S-1, Carvin 980 Cobalt acoustic, Ovation legend 12 string, jazz bass clone, Fender Mustang III amp, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL interface, TC Helicon voiceworks.

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#123739 - 08/02/11 10:55 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: Robh]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4404
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4404
The output VU meters are fine. When I try to record a little Hammond sound over that song we worked with, the input VUs do not move, it doe snot record, but I can hear the synth as I play it. That tells me it is hitting the interface but not going through it to the software. When I stop the record, it asks if I want to keep the take. I say yes. I play back, nothing. The track does not show any wave activity.

Physical connections are as such. Obviously from the interface to the computer is fine or I would hear nothing. In the Windows control panel (I run 7) the M-Audio IS selected as the default recording device, 16 bit, 44,100 sample rate, which is what the help files say it should be. I plug the synth into input 1 on my M-Audio. The synth activity light flickers. I select the track, set it to AUDIO TRACK (tried both mono and stereo). I hit RECORD (I also tried using the RECORD AUDIO) and play the track. I play over the recorded tracks, and it does not record.

Everything has been tested with every variable offered. I just don't know where else to look because this is the first time I ever used RB. And as I said in the earlier post, 90 minutes later, the help files were no help, largely because I don't know what other keywords to try. RECORD gave me nothing. RECORD AUDIO gave me nothing. I mean they gave me topics but they did not address this issue.

And the issue is NOT my M-Audio box. When I use Sonar I set things up the same way and can record real time with no problems.

People have offered replies to this and many other questions saying things like "Oh just send your track out to ______________ and then you can do this and that." Folks, the idea of buying BIAB/RB was so I did NOT have to be sending files back and forth and import this and export that and then tweak and and and and....... This was supposed to be the "one stop shopping" package. I KNOW how to use the other stuff. I don't WANT to do that any more. Cubase this, Pro Tools that, Sonar the other.... No. I want to do everything in ONE software. BIAB offered the advantage of creating background tracks, but if it doesn't work "all the way" it does me very little good.
_________________________
I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will pretty much be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#123740 - 08/02/11 11:23 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: eddie1261]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Something is not set up right. Some small thing is causing all this frustration. Could even be something in the M-Audio mixer applet. Monitor Mixer or such..
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#123741 - 08/02/11 11:33 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: rharv]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
"Does the VUs work if not recording?" Yes, when using selected device at top of list.
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Make your sound your own!

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#123742 - 08/02/11 11:37 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: rharv]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
"but I can hear the synth as I play it. That tells me it is hitting the interface but not going through it to the software. "

That is the key. Either the M-Audio is routing it elsewhere or the wrong drivers are selected.
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Make your sound your own!

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#123743 - 08/02/11 11:50 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: rharv]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6618
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Online   content
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6618
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Rharv just mentioned the same thing I'm asking you now. Does the M-Audio interface have it's own mixer app? You haven't said anything about how that's set up. It took me some time to figure out my EMU's Patchmix software too. The M-Audio mixer has to be set up properly or it's a showstopper.

I totally agree about the Help files btw. They do squat for me as well when trying to track down a problem. It's been mentioned a few times here that there should be a sort of "beta test" for the help files and owners manual. I think they could use a good rewrite.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#123744 - 08/02/11 12:00 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: jazzmammal]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Is Full Duplex checked in Audio Preferences? It's a long shot, but like I said it'll be some small stupid little thing being overlooked.
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Make your sound your own!

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#123745 - 08/02/11 12:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: rharv]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4404
eddie1261 Offline
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Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4404
I will dispute that ONLY because when I loaded up Sonar to test (and touched nothing physical, just shut down RB and booted Sonar) I recorded just fine, so the M-Audio is set up correctly. The interface doesn't know what software is recording what it sends through it, correct? Sonar, Cubase, Pro Tools, BIAB.....

The M-Audio is configured through Windows control panel sound hardware settings. I can pick 1-2 or 3-4, and I tried every combination. When I was testing with Sonar I changed it from 1-2 to 3-4, made the appropriate cabling changes, and recorded a second time into Sonar. So once again, I eliminated physical. That leaves logical.

Once again, computer nerd boy that I am, I am thorough when I troubleshoot, but I can only troubleshoot what I know to look for. The next step takes me into help files, and the FAQ and help files offered nothing in the area of "How to troubleshoot when your input does not register on the VU meters and does not record." A lot of "How to connect...." Nothing on "When you can not record...."

I can not have BIAB turn into a second full time job. It is supposed to be "user friendly plug it up and go" and it is far from that. I understand learning curves as well as anybody, but this is ridiculous. 90 minutes in the helps and no answer anywhere.

And if one more person tells me about drivers....

One last time... a driver is simply a piece of software that tells your operating system what hardware to use. If it works for one program, or two, or twelve, it HAS to work on the 13th. Drivers are not intuitive to know what program is running. It is on or off, black or white, yes or no, works or doesn't work. No shades of gray. If some piece of software requires a different audio driver (which, by the way is an anomaly - hardware requires drivers, not software) then that software needs to step in line with industry standard and not require a proprietary driver (Are you listening HP with your Laser Printer 5 drivers that don't like Windows 7?). Changing from ASIO to MME (legacy) does make a difference as far as how data is passed, and the ASIO does not work on my computer, probably because I have not looked for updates. (And that switch in BIAB just aligns BIAB to what the computer is running.) Everything works just tip top with BIAB and RB until I get to trying to record external sources. That tells me I do not have a driver issue, or nothing would work. There is also the WDM (Windows Driver Model) option, but once again, propeller head Eddie says that "logic dictates" that you should not have to be changing drivers in mid session to get one function of a program to work.

Drivers has become everybody's cliche answer to every computer problem. And this is not a computer problem. This is a BIAB/RB problem.
_________________________
I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will pretty much be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.

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#123746 - 08/02/11 12:09 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: rharv]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
One way to see if it is the routing -
Open a new seq file
highlite every available device in the drivers input window
click OK and hit record.

Every device will record to its own track so you can see if any of the selections are getting a signal. If one does, count how many tracks down it is and compare it to the list. Yes they will record and not show in the VU.

Maybe RB mislabels the inputs (?)
This test would find out.

How does the M-Audio connect to the computer? USB, PCI, Firewire?


Edited by rharv (08/02/11 12:13 PM)
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#123747 - 08/02/11 12:16 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: Okay, I officially quit [Re: rharv]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 18998
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Did you check Full Duplex box in RB audio preferences? Long shot ...
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PG Music News
With Band-in-a-Box®, Making Music Has Never Been Easier!


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The Download Manager - Band-in-a-Box® for Windows

The "Download Manager" within Band-in-a-Box® for Windows is a great tool to confirm or help with the installation of your Band-in-a-Box® for Windows program!

What does the Download Manager do?
Automatically installs Band-in-a-Box® content (RealTracks, RealDrums, etc.) in the background, so you don't have to sit there the whole time! It can also confirm that you've completely installed your purchase.

How do you use it?
Within the program, go to Help | Utilities | Run Download/Install Manager now. Using your activation code, the program will analyze the installation folders, and list anything that still needs to be downloaded and installed.

Learn more about the Download Manager with this tutorial, or check out the topic within the Online Manual.

Band-in-a-Box® for Windows Online Manual - Chord List & Shortcuts

Visit the Chord List of our Online Manual, and you'll see all the chords that can be used within the program! The list includes a few Tricky Chords and Shortcut Chords that you may find useful too!

Tricky Chords:
C5b This is "C flat 5." It is spelled this way to avoid confusion.
C2, C5, C4, C69, C7alt, Cm7#5
You can type C-7 for Cm7 (i.e. use the minus sign) or C7-9 for C7b9.

Shortcut Chords
If you enter a lot of songs, you will appreciate these shortcut keys.
J = Maj7
H = m7b5 (H stands for Half diminished)
D = dim
S = 7sus

There's even information on how to add your own chord shortcuts - check it out!

Video Request Answered - Creating Intros, Bridges, and Endings in Band-in-a-Box®

Check out the newest support video created by Kent that explains how to create intros, bridges, and endings in Band-in-a-Box®! Click here to view...

The Band-in-a-Box® SongPicker Feature

If you have a folder of songs that you'd always like easy access to within Band-in-a-Box, make sure you familiarize yourself with The SongPicker feature, which access the folder that you choose and lock it to!

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Learn even more about this feature within Chapter 5 of our Online Manual, here.

Just Launched - The FAQ and Knowledge Base Forum!

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Pre-Sales

Technical support & troubleshooting by product:
Band-in-a-Box® for Windows
Band-in-a-Box® for Mac
RealBand® for Windows
PowerTracks Pro® Audio for Windows
Other Products

There's even a Request New FAQs forum, if you didn't see your question answered anywhere!

Over 190 Saxophone RealTracks for Band-in-a-Box®!

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Check our our Saxophonist programs for Windows:
The Jazz Saxophonist
The Rock Saxophonist

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