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This is for both the main and the other screens.

I would like to either have the fonts changed or the ability to change fonts on the various messages and menus. For example the font for category in the style menu is one of them that is almost impossible to read on a high-resolution monitor. As are some of the message windows on the main screen.



They are actually a little smaller than these.


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Fonts: Hmmm, I am guessing that these fonts are not controlled in BIAB(?), but are coming from the windows operating system based on the menu/screen type. Found this at http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Change-Windows-fonts

Quote:

Change Windows fonts

You can change the font in any part of Windows (for example, menus). Changing a Windows font does not change your program fonts.

Open Appearance Settings by clicking the Start button Picture of the Start button, clicking Control Panel, clicking Appearance and Personalization, clicking Personalization, and then clicking Window Color and Appearance. If the Appearance Settings dialog box is not displayed, at the bottom of the page, click Open classic appearance properties.

Click Advanced.

In the Item list, click the part of Windows where you want to change the font. For example, if you want to change the menu font, click Menu in the list.

In the Font list, click the font you want to use.

In the Size list, click the font size that you want.

In the Color list, click the font color you want.

Repeat steps 3 through 6 for each part of Windows where you want to change the font, its size, and its color, and then click OK.




Maybe someone knows which font setting to choose -- there are a lot of choices.


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(1) Whatever you do, please include a "Hertitage" option for those of us who just happen to hate wasting time remembering WTH an icon/tile is supposed to represent---one of the reasons Macs have been shunned by PC people. The 'heritage' mode should absolutely include the standard Windows command bar.
(2) The ability to add buttons where you want them and place them where you want them (floating pallette). A tracking/keypress feature would be nice (automatically build a palette of buttons and commands that you have been using)
(3) Context-sensive button/tool bars (like in every office suite)
(4) Skins and color preferences

Good luck to all of us!

Paj
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Last edited by Paj; 11/04/12 07:32 AM.
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A few from me.. all IMHO only

Represent bars properly when dealing with unusual time signatures - one bar per bar in the chord sheet window

Either.. drop the instrument names in trhe GUI just call them instrument one, two, etc or, give them the names that actually apply.. don't call banjos pianos

Assign most of the MIDI readings to a loadable window, most MIDI assignments/program changes are rarely used, weho uses LSB?

Build the GUI for Real Tracks its the future...

Use more tooltips - color coding things, though useful, is only good if you have read the manual.. did you read the manual for yur mobile

Get away from the windows 95 look it creates a poor impression.

Make it possible to show repeats in two ways - one as in classical notation, secondly in exanded view as if in a sequenccer

Last but certainly not least, a great learning tool would be to provide a learner with explanation of given chord types. E.G. Bb7Alt is exactly.....? Do this directly on the chord sheet window by a hovering action (which may be turned off in prefs. Provide some suggested chord voicings somehow - for learners. Also consider indentifying chord sequences as groups - e.g 2/5/1s chord subs, modulations. In other words try to display the structure beyond roman numerals (which are great).

Loose the windows 95 look its bad for your image - a great engine in a model T chassis


Love the product would love to see the GUI brought up to date


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Quote:

Build the GUI for Real Tracks its the future...




Not sure what that means. I'm all for progress (see my earlier post) but not at the expense of those of us who use BIAB almost exclusively with/for MIDI. A big 10-4 for losing the Win 95 deal, though. I also second the notion of being able to rename or dynamically display the instrument names, too. A banjo isn't a piano, nor is a guitar strings, et cetera, et cetera.


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Did anyone mention yet that it would be very helpful to be able to adjust the number of measures per line on the chordsheet (since it's on the main screen)?


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Way too general Zero. Look again at Peter's original post:

We would appreciate hearing any specific suggestions that you have - the more specific the better.
For example, do you want the ptoolbar, or piano area changed, etc. - if so how.


The more specific the better and you want to make changes, then explain exactly what and how the best you can.

A lot of these posts are like that, not just yours. They're like an average person looking at a portrait in progress. "She looks weird, he has to make her look better".

Gotta get specific, exactly how do you want the GUI to look? What is it you don't like about it? Be specific, is it the icons? How would you change them? The chord grid? How would you change that? The instrument menu's? How would you change those? Etc, etc. What is it that makes it look like Win 95 to you? As opposed to what?

Binars are supposed to be very logical, they make Vulcans look like emotional basket cases. Split that brain of yours and come up with something...

Answers to these types of questions is what Peter is looking for.

Bob


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I like the old girl just the way she is.


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Quote:

Way too general Zero. Look again at Peter's original post:

We would appreciate hearing any specific suggestions that you have - the more specific the better.
For example, do you want the ptoolbar, or piano area changed, etc. - if so how.


The more specific the better and you want to make changes, then explain exactly what and how the best you can.

A lot of these posts are like that, not just yours. They're like an average person looking at a portrait in progress. "She looks weird, he has to make her look better".

Gotta get specific, exactly how do you want the GUI to look? What is it you don't like about it? Be specific, is it the icons? How would you change them? The chord grid? How would you change that? The instrument menu's? How would you change those? Etc, etc. What is it that makes it look like Win 95 to you? As opposed to what?

Binars are supposed to be very logical, they make Vulcans look like emotional basket cases. Split that brain of yours and come up with something...

Answers to these types of questions is what Peter is looking for.

Bob




Your point is a good one...specifics are better. But I think everyone would agree if you compare BIAB GUI to most other modern software (Reaper, Excel, etc.) there are many obvious improvement opportunities that jump out at you. And I don't mean to criticize because BIAB works great and even if it is never improved visually I'll be glad to have it, but it kinda resembles a DOS program that was hastily ported to Windows 3.1! And I know function is more important than looks but the GUI does get considered when someone is thinking about new software. And if they judged BIAB just on its visuals I think it might not get fair consideration.

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Oh yes, looks are vital always has been whether it's Miss America or the latest software. Since none of us are pro graphics designers it is tough to make specific suggestions yet that's what has to be done. Us users are the ones who know the program the best. If they start completely rearranging the windows, how does that affect the basic operation? What about the colors? Can we still see what we need to see easily? These are the sorts of things we have to think about carefully and then make detailed suggestions. Simply saying "it looks old, fix it" is no help.

Every software company such as Reaper posts screen shots on their websites, you don't have to actually own the software to see what it looks like. Go to some and look at them and try to think about what if Biab looked like this? Where would the piano display be? Where would the instruments buttons be, how to access the Real Tracks, the chord grid, the icons or do you think they should get rid of the icons and use something else but if so what else? You have to think about what the program is and how it does what it does. Biab is not a DAW like Sonar or something else. All we're talking about in this thread is the look and feel of the program, not about changing the basic functions, just how to see and access them.

Not easy when you really get down to it.

Bob


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not easy at all Bob. I suggested in another post that they hire an outside GUI expert and pair him/her/them up with someone who knows BIAB inside and out (PG?) in order to design the new GUI. I seriously doubt GUI design can make much progress here in the forums.

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Jazz mammal: I think you make a fair point, I was away from BIAB when I posted. Here are some specific suggestions, Main GUI only:

Everything 64 bit as well as 32.

Support unusual time signatures properly - no two bars equal one bar thing..

Develop a MIDI window and assign the MIDI part info of the display to that. I am talking of the section that is displaying 'electric piano' (when in this piece there is no electric piano), GM2 F + Volume, Pan, Tone, Bank0, LSB, Mreverb. I doubt if most people use this much and the MIDI instrument name misleads or is silent. Who uses LSB?? Very few, and they should find it in a drop down if they really want it.

Clarify the looping: At present we have the loop button, the loop sec button, the tick box for loop then the spinning arrows icon for loopsec in three different places. - maybe a 'transport bar' like cubase - but dockable.

Make the instrument names for the tracks either accurate or simply name them one, two, three etc.

Loose the Windows 95 look. Here I cannot be specific but even behind the main screen in the dialogue boxes everything looks dated.

When something is a MIDI only function, label it so (e.g. reverb).


Have a Zoom function available in the bottom right of the gui so you can see more chords if desired

Make the Roman numerals function visible on the Main GUI - handy for quick analysis

Controversial: Loose RB and integrate it into BIAB - have a sequencer view. (I know many wont like this but cleaving the application into two entities is IMO a bad thing).

Have tool tips that give the notes for the chords. If you hover over Bb Sus 4 it could show the notes.

When I look at the top of the gui for the particular song I am in almost all the information is inaaccurate or irrelevent. Its composed of real tracks, features harmonica and organ, none of which show. There is no electric piano.

Improve the notation screen. For me its unuseable and breaks up into blocks when the creen chagngers - this should never happen. Bars are often cluttered to the degree of unreadable - note heads in black crfowed blocks. I ma jsut looking at the TAB menu for guitar in "The Stars Above" and its a mess of bits of numbers. I never use notation because of these issues - even though I can read. Why a 'leadsheet; window, AND a 'chord sheet' window? Integrate them please.

Consider having lyrics displayed under chord sheet? I know this is not as easy as it sounds.

Song structure window:
Give us more power over the structure of the song in the way it is displayed. Most songs can be divided into structures like IntroAABA, ABABA etc. Give us a window where we can control at this level, giving us the option to repeat a letter - e.g. AABA and have it show with the correct repeats on screen. Have an option for A1' and A2 where the eight bars are essentially the same but tweaked (usually last couple of bars). Include pick up notes.

Concerning roman numerals and song structures. Often in a song, particularly Jazz, songs go slightyl out of the home key form, for example a 2/5/1 might be built on the dominant or a tritone substitution used. Roman numerals takes you so far, but sometimes you might get say a 2/5/1 into a minor or something. If BIAB could have an "Analysis screen" that did more than simply convert to roman numerals this would be a great learning tool. Maybe with suggested scales for unconventional chords too. This could be a strong selling point.

Anyways.. these are my thoughts..


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It would be nice when right-clicking on the Drum Real Track to have an option that actually regenerates the drum track, which is a function available on all the other Real Tracks.

There is a selection for "regenerate this real track," but I believe that only works if an instrument other that drums is assigned to the Drum track.

Maybe there should be an additional line that says "regenerate real drums."
Thanks

John

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When I see us start making specific suggestions like proper time sig support, proper instrument names and the like all I can say is those things have been asked about literally since before I became a member here 7 years ago. Nothing has been done about them.

I mean literally these things have been asked and bitched about over and over and over and over....oh, and over again. To those who are not beta testers I can tell you these things continually come up every beta test too yet no comments from anybody in power and nothing is done. Just like the VST timing issue in Real Band. I can only assume that due to the basic coding of the program, these things simply can't be done and that's it.

This is why I keep trying to point this discussion to the basic question about the GUI. Both of these new threads ask about the GUI. What does that mean? Graphical User Interface. Basically the look and feel of the program, nothing to do with internal specifics like time sigs, notation or the like. Just like your Windows desktop. That is the Windows GUI, nothing to do with what's happening under the hood. Not trying to be the hall monitor at all, just putting out a fair warning these other things have been talked about to death. PG is well aware of them, trust me. Just focus on the title of these threads.

Bob

Last edited by jazzmammal; 11/09/12 10:17 AM.

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I think a couple of folks have already mentioned it, but it would be nice to be able to break down a song into its component parts (Intro, Verse, Chorus, Bridge, Ending), with the option of V1 V2 and C1 C2 etc, and then be able to specify how the song fits together: I-V1-C-V2-C-B-C-E

For the intro indicated above, it would be nice to have real intros (2 to 8 bars), much like arranger keyboards do, and then like StyleMaker, allow the user to create their own Intros library (to supplement those provided by PGMusic). The intro can include instruments on any one of the tracks.

Likewise, there should be 2-8 bar endings (not just the 2 bar now allowed), again with the ability of users to create their ending library (to supplement those provided by PGMusic). The intro can include instruments on any one of the tracks.


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1. The cluttered and chaotic main screen of BiaB can be made to look fairly decent using the customization that's available now. The result is not terribly trendy, but I suspect there'd be fewer complaints mentioning Windows 95 if the layout looked more like this by default:



The keyboards and gimmicks should (at a minimum) be made addable by option, rather than forcing users to hide the goofier stuff by themselves. Little-used features shouldn't have an icon showing.



2. IMO, the worst problem about the GUI is not immediate visual impression but the disorganization of the menus. Correcting this is probably a big job, because the system "jus' growed" over decades without care for consistency. As the program grew more complex, menus got even worse.

Menus should at least execute in a consistent manner (mouse and Enter key). The scroll wheel must be made to work in all menus, including those programmed 15 years ago. Otherwise you give the impression of a carelessly constructed program that doesn't know what it's doing.

Some good, powerful features are actually crippled by deplorable menus. The leadsheet printing feature -- once you study up for a couple of years -- can yield fine results; but some quite smart users don't think that's worthwhile, because print attributes are arbitrarily distributed over 3 wildly complicated menus (one of them quite effectively hidden behind one of the others).

Another example is the endings, codas, and repeats menu, so messy and hard to interpret that it causes never-ending puzzlement on the forums. A thing which confuses MOST people can't be willed into acceptability by claiming user error and failure to read the directions.

Last edited by allis; 11/15/12 09:09 AM.

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Jazz Mammal: "can only assume that due to the basic coding of the program, these things simply can't be done and that's it."

My guess is that to include a 64 bit application and to Integrate with the Metro interface attributes of Win 8, to start designing for IPads, Androids and the like, this version of BIAB needs fundamental change that the ancient code cannot support. I guess (but have no knowledge) that the next version of BIAB is a complete rewrite and will include addressing some of these long standing issues - like 12/8, 7/4 time signatures and the like.
Obviously it is possible to support unusual time signature and other things like this, its just about how... from the coding perspective.

Even though it looks very dated BIAB is an innovative product, but it cant stand still. Cubase 7 has introduced a new 'chord track' due out December, its not BIAB by any means but things move on.2

I have a very positive feeling about BIAB 2013 being a step change product, PG needs to move forward rapidly from here..

All IMO

Zero


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I think that the use of primary and secondary colors is what makes many people refer to the GUI unfavorably. In our culture you are likely to see mainly primary colors in kindergartens and day care facilities. Whether or not we consciously understand our reaction to visual cues we associate with small kids, the association evokes a reaction.

When I hear people make comments like "looks like a toy" I believe this is exactly the reason.

That theory would be easy to test. If THEMES were available, and some of them were monochromatic or even metallic, it would be interesting to see how many people opted for the primary color themes and how many opted for the more sedate schemes.

MY preferred theme would be a brushed aluminum look with a high-end audio system styling, simulated LED status boxes etc.

(I can see an aftermarket for BIAB theme graphic sets.)



My favorite example of an advanced GUI in an audio app is FLStudio. The app's approach to creating music is very different than BIAB's, but the modularity of design is outstanding in my opinion...

The design and programming principles should be transportable.

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I think you make a good point Pat two blended tones add a touch of class IMO. I think its also true that you 'can have too much of a good thing' and end up with a GUI that looks like a space ship or something - like Win Amp for example.

I have been thinking about the main screen, it could look SIbelius like - the creamy manuscript look. The main default font in the chord sheet window is comic sans I believe (I am away from BIAB at the moment) - this gives clarity but not elegance. Obviously this could be changed.
Loose that Windows Grey in all the dialogue boxes and the main screen - its like having grannies wallpaper in your living room. Also the font for the menus is a little old school.
Spin buttons: Like I say, I am not in front of my machine but do they show a slider once clicked? I recall they do not. My eyes are not great (judge by my tyupos) and it would be good if the smaller items on the screen were elegantly to enlarge on use.


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I am just concernd that PG will delay the upgrade to deliver a new GUI and forget about adding the 101 new styles ...

Personally a new look is not high on my agenda as when i use it there is nothing for me to compare it with and thinking about it more and more fear that if a redevelopment starts it could take quite a while ago tomget back to the point they are now.

I hope that the GUI pushers understand that the programming hours cannot be applied to adding the WIBNIFS (Would'nt It Be Nice If) features we want extra if they spend time upgrading the look and feel.


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