Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
Noel96 Offline OP
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
USING "PG DYNAMICS" TO SMOOTH TRACK VOLUME

PG Music's plugin called PG Dynamics is an excellent compressor and expander. If Realtracks, Realdrums or Audio tracks have substantial changes in dynamics, one way to achieve an overall more even volume in the track is through use of this plugin. It can be used within Band In A Box, Realband and external DAWs.

In the below example, I have used the plugin on the "Bass" track of Band In A Box.

1. Click on the VSTi button on the shortcut menu bar. (If you cannot see this button, click on the >> immediately to right of the yellow cross in the below image. This will show any buttons not on display.)



2. First, left-click on "Bass" on the window that pops up. Second, left-click on the top drop-down box in the column labeled "Plugin". Third, scroll down and select "PG Dynamics"



3. Adjust the "PG Dynamics" settings to those shown below. First, deactivate "Expander/Gate"; second, double-check that "Compressor" is active; third, deactivate "Auto Gain"; fourth, click on the black box under the 'Output Gain' knob, delete the number that's there (probably 6) and enter 12.



4. Left click on the title bar at the top of the plugin box (#1), hold the mouse button down, and drag the dialogue box down the screen so that the "Generate Play" button (#2) becomes visible.



5. Leaving the VST plugin box open, generate the song and start it playing. As the song plays, you'll see audio activity on the VU meters. If the bass is still quiet (i.e. the VU meters don't register much volume), try changing the "12", in the 'Output Volume' box, to a higher value (the max. is 24). These adjustments can be made while the song is playing and the changes heard in real-time.

If the sound is still not as uniform in volume as you'd like:

(a) Try changing the "Threshold" value to increasingly larger negative numbers (say -15, -18, -20, etc.);

(b) Try changing the "Ratio" value to increasingly larger positive values (say, 6, 7, 8, etc.).

Regards,
Noel

Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457
Hi Noel:

Your "How to" series of posts should be given a permanent sticky folder of its own. They're invaluable. Thanks,

Bob

Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,988
R
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
R
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,988
The new wondah from down undah.

Thanks for the information Noel. Learning to properly use these and all plugins is the ptoblem. No matter how many times i read up on plugins i still get tangled up on ratio, threshold, and such.


Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Another great tip - thanks Noel.


Bob-


"Balmer, Merlan"

Love that. My wife is from "Balmer". Looking forward to our next trip to Phillips.


Regards,

Bob

Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
Noel96 Offline OP
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
I'm glad the information is useful.


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,520
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,520
Noel, I want to follow your step-thru, but, in BIAB when I pull down the Plugin list, I don't have PG Dynamics...I use it all the time in RB, but it doesn't appear in the BIAB list...where do I go to add it?

Thanks.

Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
Noel96 Offline OP
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
Hi Tano,

I don't have an answer for you. If you can see all the other PG plugins and it's only the Dynamics one that's missing, that strikes me as very unusual.

If this were me, I'd drop PG Music's Support an email and ask them what's the best way to get it back.

Regards,
Noel


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,705
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,705
Quote:

Hi Noel:

Your "How to" series of posts should be given a permanent sticky folder of its own. They're invaluable. Thanks,

Bob




+1

Thanks Noel!

Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,520
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,520
Noel, from PG tech support...it's not the TOP Plugin box on the right, it's the one just below that which reveals the PG plugins..

Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
Noel96 Offline OP
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
Hi Tano,

Thank you. When I captured the original screen shot, the top box worked if the track had a Realtrack on it. To be honest, I think to try if the track had a midi file on it. Also, I clicked on the relevant track (in the above image "Bass"). I just noticed that if the "Default Synth" selection is active, that also requires the second box down.

Once again, thank you for the information.
Noel


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
Noel96 Offline OP
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
Thanks, Danny. It's good to read that some of what I've posted is useful.


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 177
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 177
Another grateful reader and user of this technique, Noel. Thanks.


DrDuBose
"Gettin' a life."

music at
http://www.bandmix.com/drdubose
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
Noel96 Offline OP
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
Hi DrDUBose,

I'm glad to read that the information was useful.

Regards,
Noel


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,607
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,607
Hi Noel. Is your process global or song specific? Later, Ray


Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
Noel96 Offline OP
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
Hi Ray,

This method is song specific.

Regards,
Noel


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 201
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 201
Noel96, et. al., I would love to see these 'broken' jpegs and more explanation of this compressor. There is nothing on the web or the forum that's substantive enough for me to use it with confidence. I get the concept but don't know how to evaluate gain vs. clipping as indicated by the meters. Thanks!


Best, Warren

Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer
Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion
Tune 9 Music- SESAC
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
Noel96 Offline OP
Veteran
OP Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,013
Hi Warren,

Many of my older threads now have broken links to graphics. This came about when Dropbox changed their public folder a little while back. (I used Dropbox to host my images.)

It didn't occur to me at the time but I should have included a downloadable pdf in the original post.

I'll recreate this thread with the original information.

Check back in a couple of days and I will have something for you.

Regards,
Noel


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 201
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 201
Boy, that's kind Noel! This is a nice generic resource https://blog.landr.com/use-compression-solve-5-common-mixing-mistakes/ I need to understand the clipping as shown in the middle meter as opposed to the L and R boxes up top. I got things to work pretty nicely tonight, but would like more confidence really knowing what I'm doing. Thanks again!


Best, Warren

Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer
Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion
Tune 9 Music- SESAC
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,673
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,673
Our old friend Mac gave his explanation of compression for beginners many years ago here -
http://audiominds.com/compression.html

This explanation broke it down enough for me to grasp things and run with it.
It explains the basic concept very well IMO

Another good example is his explanation of Gain Staging
http://audiominds.com/gain.html

I'd almost forgot about audiominds, thanks for jarring my memory; lots of good basic stuff archived there.

Last edited by rharv; 06/09/18 02:22 PM.

Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 201
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 201
I would really, truly like to understand this plugin. I understand compression basics. I know what ratio, attack, and release are, as well as output gain makeup. I also know what the threshold setting is. What I don't get, and no other plugin I see uses, is the clipping indicators. There's a central red bar, and there are also the small L and R boxes up top. This is where I'm especially hung up. Is this clipping in the true sense of data loss, or is the term clipping used here to mean the level of peaks being attenuated? Is it OK to have the central bar light red at all, but not the L/R boxes?

I'd love to have one of the experts say " turn the Threshold counter-clockwise until... Turn the Gain clockwise until..." I manage to get PGD doing essentially what I want it to, but I'm shooting in the dark with guesswork.

Here from the RealBand User's Guide PDF is a good general explanation, but again I need some coaching with the Threshold setting and Clipping indicators:

Compressor checkbox enables PG Dynamics’ compressor module.
Threshold sets the level where compression begins. Below Threshold, the level is unchanged. Above Threshold, as
the input gets louder, the gain is gradually reduced.
Ratio adjusts how drastically the compressor behaves.
At a 2:1 ratio, an over-threshold input change of 6 dB would yield an output change of 3 dB. An input change of 12 dB
would yield an output change of 6 dB. Modest ratios are appropriate for smoothing a vocal or drum performance.
At a 10:1 ratio, the difference between loud and soft signals is changed more drastically. An input change of 6 dB
would yield an output change of only 0.6 dB. A 12 dB input change would yield an output change of 1.2 dB. At high
ratios, loud and soft input signals arrive at the output at nearly the same level. High ratios are useful for special
effects— add long sustain to clean guitar, or make spoken dialog loud and intelligible on small computer speakers.
Attack is the time required for the compressor to respond to an increase in amplitude.
As a general rule, use fast Attack values to compress individual notes, but use slow Attack values to compress the
overall level of a track.
With fast Attack, each note will be modified, which can keep the notes within a phrase more consistent. This can
tighten up an inconsistent performance, but also could remove the expressiveness from an expert expressive
performance.
With slow Attack, individual notes are not affected very much, but the compressor controls long-term level. Individual
notes can retain their expressive emphasis, but the long-term audio level is controlled.
Release is the time required for the compressor to respond to reductions in amplitude.
Fast Release lets the compressor “spring back” quickly after a loud passage.
Slow Release makes the compressor wait awhile before raising gain after a loud passage.
Use fast Release to compress individual notes. Use slow Release to compress the overall level of a track.
Very fast Attack and Release settings can sometimes cause intermodulation distortion on multi-instrument tracks (or
wide-frequency-range single instruments such as Grand Piano). For instance, on a track containing both kick drum and
hi-hat, the kick drum might audibly pump the hi-hat level.
Rule of thumb: Use moderate Attack and moderate-to-long Release on mixes, but use shorter Attack and Release on
individual instruments.
With Auto Gain enabled, makeup gain is automatically adjusted to match the compressor settings.
As the compressor Ratio and Threshold knobs are adjusted, Auto Gain adjusts the Output Gain knob to set the output
level to an “approximately good level.”
With slow Attack settings, the Auto Gain may be too high, causing the output to exceed 0 dB on fast note attacks. In
this case, disable Auto Gain, and manually adjust the Output Gain knob for the desired output level.
Output Gain applies make-up gain to the audio output, in case the compressor settings make the signal too quiet.

Last edited by Warren Keller; 07/16/18 08:50 AM.

Best, Warren

Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer
Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion
Tune 9 Music- SESAC
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,673
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,673
Not sure I qualify as one of the experts, but yes Warren, it is OK to see the signal getting limited (by the clip part of the meter).
This lets you know the signal crossed the threshold and is getting compressed.

Classic Compressor and some others use a simple light that turns on when the signal crosses the threshold and starts to get compressed .. PGDynamics does this in the meter display, which is pretty cool because you get a better visual representation of the compressors affect.

If you play the track and turn the Threshold down you will see it happen much more (the signal getting compressed), if you turn the Threshold all the way up it will do this much less.

In hindsight they should have used a different label than 'Clip' but I think you understand it's intent; it shows how much compression is taking place. I'm not sure what a better label would be, but Clip is misleading; it's simply showing the signal crossed the compressor threshold and is now being compressed and how much it is being compressed.
Yes it's different than most, but except for the label is a nice feature. You have to get used to the downward meter movement showing the compression, but at least it is there to see.

The amount of change that happens once it DOES cross the threshold is in the Ratio control.
Again, tinkering with this in combination with the threshold will make that clip meter behave differently (compress it more or less once it does cross that threshold).
Of course the attack and release are simply how fast it reacts initially and then how fast it lets go of any signal that did cross the threshold.

I still think, to this day, that a facelift of many of these PGPlugins would go a long way, even though the core performance hasn't changed in years. They do what they do, but they could look a lot better with minimal effort.

My bigger complaint is that the Parametric EQ never got converted to a DX (realtime) plugin and is only available as a hard write effect. Not sure why that one got abandoned .. there are plenty of other free options, but it was weird to me that they left this one plugin behind when they made the rest realtime.


Last edited by rharv; 07/16/18 02:43 PM.

Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 201
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 201
rharv, you are an expert in my book. That's super helpful just knowing that clipping doesn't mean signal is being clipped but rather compressed. Any comment as to what the left and right boxes are saying when they light, and especially stay lit, in addition to the downward meter?

I'd say as a general guide, turn Threshold down until the loudest part of the track lights up the meter. I think it's OK to have Auto Gain enabled but then dial it back only as needed to make up for volume loss. Start with 2:1 or 3:1 ratios. Attack and Release are much trickier to determine but both can be slower when used for levellng out a tracks overall volume. Thanks rharv!


Best, Warren

Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer
Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion
Tune 9 Music- SESAC
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,673
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,673
Quote:
Any comment as to what the left and right boxes are saying when they light, and especially stay lit, in addition to the downward meter?


L/R are the true output of the effect back into the mix(er) I think. If your AutoGain is driving these into the red at the Track level, I'd probably want to over ride the AutoGain setting and turn down.

This means that even after compressing (squishing) the signal the signal is still leaving that plugin too loud.
Make up that volume difference further down the chain if needed; you don't want to risk distortion at this point. Boost that same track further down the line instead; like Track Volume ..

I try to get the out signal on the L/R of this plugin peaking about -6 to -3. If the light above the L/R meters are lighting up (clipping) you are assuming certain risks (distortion or thwack), some of which may not show up until later in the process (like mastering). Keep those signals under strict control.

Working on a mix, always leave headroom and don't push signals too hard at this stage.
Gain Staging and Headroom are key ingredients at this point.


Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 201
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 201
That's brilliant rharv, with that explanation I get the whole picture! I've noticed that although the Auto Gain is linked to Threshold, you can turn the gain down even when the automatic box is checked. Nothing important, obviously one can get best control working the two dials independently.

So in a nutshell, the downward directed, central red meter is a good thing as it indicates that the threshold has been exceeded and the compressor is working. When the L & R boxes up top light red, that's a bad thing as they show the output is too hot. From that point you can simply push the levels slider in the channel strip if necessary.

Your post should have a way to be highlighted as there's virtually no good information prior to this on the plugin's usage. Congratulations! Believe it or not, my intuition led me down this same path, but now I know why with confidence!


Best, Warren

Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer
Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion
Tune 9 Music- SESAC
Post your own Tips and Tricks here
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,673
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,673
Glad it helped.


Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
User Video: Band-in-a-Box® + ChatGPT = Impressed the BOSS!

Since AI is now readily available online as a resource for many things, we recently put together and shared a video where we demonstrated how to create a song using Band-in-a-Box®, ChatGPT, and Synth V; we've also shared a Bob Doyle Media video, Convert MIDI Chords into AI Vocal Harmonies with ACE Studio and Band in A Box, showing how they utilize AI for their song projects. Now it's time to share Henry's video, Band-in-a-Box + ChatGPT = Impressed the BOSS!, where he demonstrates how to use ChatGPT and Band-in-a-Box to whip a song project together in only 3-4 hours.

Watch the video.

Visit Henry Clarke's YouTube Channel, Henry Clarke - Senior Musicians Unite, to find a large collection of tutorials showing the viewer how to achieve amazing results using Band-in-a-Box®!

Band-in-a-Box User Video Tutorials!

If you've reviewed our Support page, you've probably noticed the Videos page, which separates our Band-in-a-Box® tutorial videos by category: Overview, VST DAW Plugin, Setup, Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, and there's even an Archive category to go down memory lane... (You'll also find these videos on our YouTube Channel.)

It's always great to hear how other Band-in-a-Box® users create their songs, especially when they explain in detail what they're doing. Like Henry Clarke's YouTube Channel, Henry Clarke - Senior Musicians Unite! There you'll find his ALL Band-in-a-Box Tutorials playlist with over 50 videos! His top-three most watched videos include "How to Get Started with Band-in-a-Box," "How I use the Audio Chord Wizard in Band-in-a-Box," and "How to Create An Effective Solo Using Band-in-a-Box" - however he touches on many other topics and also demonstrates his own Band-in-a-Box® songs in the Band-in-a-Box Created Songs playlist!

You're guaranteed to find some helpful videos when you visit Henry Clarke's channel!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Italian for Windows is Here!

Ci siamo dati da fare e abbiamo aggiunto oltre 50 nuove funzionalità e una straordinaria raccolta di nuovi contenuti, tra cui 222 RealTracks, nuovi RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 3, Playable RealDrums Set 2, due nuovi set di "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 e altro ancora!

Tutti Pacchetti | Nuove Caratteristiche

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 French for Windows is Here!


Band-in-a-Box® 2024 apporte plus de 50 fonctions nouvelles ainsi qu'une importante de contenus nouveaux à savoir : 222 RealTracks, des RealStyles nouveaux, des SuperTracks MIDI, des Etudes d'Instruments, des Prestations d'Artistes, des "Morceaux avec Choeurs", un Set 3 de Tracks Jouables, un Set 2 de RealDrums Jouables, deux nouveaux Sets de "RealDrums Stems", des Styles XPro PAK 6, des Xtra Styles PAK 17 et bien plus encore!

Tous Packages | Nouvelles Fonctionnalités

Video: Making a Song with Band-in-a-Box®, ChatGPT, and Synth V

Take your Band-in-a-Box® project to a whole new level when you incorporate ChatGPT and Synth V to add lyrics and vocals to your song!

We wanted to demonstrate how this is done with our video, where we show you how to go from nothing to a finished "radio ready" modern pop song by combining the features of Band-in-a-Box®, ChatGPT, and Synth V!

Listen to the finished song, so you get a listen to the finished product: https://demos.pgmusic.com/misc/behindthefame.m4a

If you like it, watch the video. Either way, let's hear your comments!

Henry Clarke: Revolutionize Your Band-in-Box® Tracks with Regenerating Function

One of the new features added with Band-in-Box® 2024 is the Tracks Window, which will look familiar if you've worked with other DAWs.

Henry Clarke explains why he loves the Re-generation function within the Tracks Window in their video Revolutionize Your Band-in-Box® Tracks with Regenerating Function.

Watch video.

Learn even more about what the Tracks Window can do with our video Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Tracks Window.

User Video: Convert MIDI Chords into AI Vocal Harmonies with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box®

The Bob Doyle Media YouTube channel is known for demonstrating how you can creatively incorporate AI into your projects - from your song projects to avatar building to face swapping, and more!

His latest video, Convert MIDI Chords into AI Vocal Harmonies with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box, he explains in detail how you can use the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box with ACE Studio. Follow along as he goes from "nothing" to "something" with his Band-in-a-Box MIDI Melodist track, using ACE Studio to turn it into a vocal track (or tracks, you'll see) by adding lyrics for those notes that will trigger some amazing AI vocals!

Watch: Next-Level AI Music Editing with ACE Studio and Band-in-a-Box


Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics82,137
Posts741,228
Members38,675
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
Fenderwp, BXLNT, instagramstory0786, GJE52, bd525
38,674 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 163
Rob Helms 157
zedd 153
DC Ron 93
rsdean 88
BIABman 87
Today's Birthdays
adaguerre@live.c, Guitarzan, ovation99, rmreport
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5