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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21
Enthusiast
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21 |
I seem to be one of those guys who just doesn't really "get it" when it comes to BIAB. I usually upgrade to the newest version every 3 or 4 years, but I never seem to be able to crack the code and use it to its fullest advantage.
I usually try a few new songs, and simply can't find just the right style for it.. something always seems to be totally off, whether drums, bass, both, or another combination. I know there are probably ways to borrow a bass style, for example, from another style and import it in, but I really can't figure out how. I find the interface to be fairly confusing and complex.
Another challenge might be the fact that I only have the Megapak, and the UlraPlus might have a lot more styles to choose from.
I've also had much trouble even finding suitable styles in past years, but it looks like PG is trying to make it easier.
I'm not blaming the software, but rather my seeming inability to fully grasp it. Maybe it's such a jack-of-all-trades that its difficult for me to fully comprehend the uses for it.
So, having said all that, my question is, are there any quality, professionally produced, step-by-step tutorials out there that can start me from the ground up and help me gain a deeper understanding of the software? I know there are user tutorials out there which are very useful, but I'm thinking I need a more structured learning environment, taking me from the basics up through using the more advanced features.
Thanks for any advice.
p.s. I'll be glad to upgrade to the UltraPlus Pack if it will be helpful in finding more appropriate styles.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,815
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,815 |
I hear you loud and clear. The hardest thing to do, as a songwriter, is to find the "exact" style and mix of instruments from BIAB so that your vision of the song is brought to life without BIAB changing it in too many ways.
You just have to do it. If you have a guitar/vocal of a new song, post it here and maybe some folks can find styles and instruments that will work great (or point out some things to try). Real tracks do play a big role in my songs, so unless you have all the realtracks, then my kind of help will be minimal. However, lots of folks here are still mostly midi.
Having said all that, sometimes I let BIAB take a compositional/arrangement role and, yes, the songs will morph quite a bit from my original guitar/vocal worktape. Sometimes that is good (ha, ha).
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,800
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,800 |
As with all tools of any trade, you need to appreciate what they do, and what they don't. I use BiaB as a starting point.
I might work in BiaB to get a chord sequence down and then pick through the styles to find the most interesting one.
Then move it over to RB, and there i choose to add more tracks, maybe midi, RTs, Rd, Personally played tracks, loops, and whatever i feel makes the song better.
Sometime I use mostly RTs, sometimes BiaB nails it, sometimes it needs a lot of help.
No matter what they are all tools, and I don't expect anyone of them to give me the complete song. To me that is not the fun part, creating the song is.
Each of us will have a different process, and no ones is better than the others, just different. I do think that just picking a style, and generating and expecting BiaB to nail it every time could be a bit disappointing.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21
Enthusiast
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21 |
Thanks guys. I'm probably having trouble imagining a good workflow, and I am a bit confused about the difference between BIAB and RB, although I'm starting to get an idea from your explanations.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,567
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,567 |
well, I have only scratched the surface of BIAB and I discover something new and delightful almost every time I use it. Here are some of the ways I use it,
1) as a songwriting aid - experiment with a verity of chord progressions in a variety of styles and see if anything strikes me. I often come up with a basic structure for my song and render it to an mp3 to listen to in the car and I begin to sing along and find lyrics that way.
2) as the most advanced metronome/click track ever - In order to have my tracks all line up I tried using a click track and a metronome and was always put off by both. Hard to feel inspired by a clicking sound. But now I go into BIAB and pick a style roughly similar to where I want the final song to be and render that to use as my "click track". Amazing how much easier it is to lay down my vocals and other tracks with a full band in my ear!
3) as a backup band for practice - I'll pick a groove I want and drop some chords in there and render that to use as a backing track for practice. As I speed up I can increase the speed of the track. If I wanna change keys BIAB does that easily too.
4) as studio musicians for some of my demos - sometimes I find a complete style that needs nothing else from me other than my vocals. It isso delightful to have a bluegrass song in mind, go to BIAB and find exactly the "band" you need, record your vocals, mix it up and bang...you have a song! Or, maybe all your need is drums and bass...you'll find them in BIAB. I know there are guys here who always roll their own and don't use styles and I expect to be doing that some day as well.
Basically the tool is unlimited! Now, with that said I did purchase the package that has all the RealTracks. I am not into midi at all so I do not think I would be satisfied with BIAB without the RealTracks.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392 |
I think you need to do what I haven't done...that is access the User's Guide and just dive in...page for page.
Personally, I think that doing so with a PDF version on the computer is cumbersome. I need to print out the manual so I can use Post-It Notes to point me to specific topics of interest to me.
I just have a "love" relationship with BIAB...not "love/hate" because any inabilities I have to fully utilize the software stems from my own lack of initiative to DIG IN to the documentation.
The problems I face, are that I'm not a "power user" and have something less than a great memory so I learn things....don't use them for a month or two...and forget what I had previously learned...therefore, the Post-It Notes.
There is also a library to video tutorials...very few of which I've viewed. But I think that they are "required viewing" for anyone who wants to do a deep dive into this software.
(-:
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,811
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,811 |
Steambc, PG Music has a ton of free instructional videos here: http://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htmI would also suggest that you take time and listen to some of the songs over on the User Showcase forum. Over there you can hear what some of the styles sound like, some all RealTracks, some all MIDI and some with both, in a song environment. Although people use BiaB differently a lot of users like myself start in BiaB then finish the song in the DAW of their choice. If you are not familiar with a DAW I strongly suggest that you look into RealBand. But I would learn BiaB first before going to a DAW if you have never used a DAW before.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,800
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,800 |
Steamy, just keep diggin' there is so much to learn. Maybe one day I'll have learnt it all!
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,259
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,259 |
I've learned a lot but don't even consider myself half way there yet. I don't have a love-hate relationship with the program overall, but sometimes I do with some of the features such as ties in notation. However, that's not the fault of BIAB but rather my own lack of understanding of how things work. As Mario pointed out there are lots of videos to watch. You might want to visit the Support Forum just to see how much stuff is available there to help you.
I don't know how you go about learning stuff. I have to cut things up into slices or I get overwhelmed. For example, I might have to just concentrate on hybrid styles and shut everything else out for awhile. YMMV
Stan
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,121
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,121 |
BIAB is great at filling out a song idea. It is also great at backing tracks for practicing. And a bazillion other things. What it's not good at is filling in the accompaniment behind, for example, a killer bass line you just composed. You CAN get there at times, but the truth is the BIAB musicians aren't listening to you, and can't riff off of you. They are marching to a different beat, per se. Still a killer program, and great to interact with. It's just not able to interact with you. Wouldn't surprise me if the gurus at PGMusic are already working this. (See Jamstix for a drumming program that "listens" to performances to determine how it responds.) But for now, enjoy what we have! 
Last edited by DC Ron; 02/20/13 07:57 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 9
Newbie
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Newbie
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 9 |
steambc,
You frustration / confusion is totally understandable. BIAB is a complex piece of software and a lot of complexity really comes from the difficult goal that the program is trying to achieve: help you create good-sounding music (and doing it at home, with no other professional musicians or producers around).
Thus, the main advice is - unfortunately - patience!
You really should follow MarioD's advice and watch the video tutorials. BTW, listen to some of his music on the Showcase - it is great (and it was made with a lot of help from BIAB)!
As a bit of a more practical advice on how to create your own workflow, think about this (assuming you are writing your own song or creating your own arrangement of a piece of music). I also assume that you have already created the basic melodic and harmonic structure for your song:
1. Decide which musical genre will best showcase the ideas you want your song to convey.
2. Decide what tempo best matches the musical and lyrical contents of your song.
3. Only then, use BIAB to help you try your song in several styles from your chosen genre.
4. Not all parts will be perfect (matching your vision), so you can then substitute individual tracks (this where reading the manual and watching the videos will pay off) for one, several or all parts of your arrangement until you have the basic elements of the song in place.
5. Then (and this is only my approach, other folks do things differently) transfer your work into a DAW (RB or one of your choice) and edit / change /add / delete, etc. different parts of your song until you have all the recorded parts done to your heart's desire.
6. Now you're off to mixing and then mastering your masterpiece, but this is a completely separate story...
Hope that this helps.
Best Regards,
Oleg.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687 |
Quote:
I usually try a few new songs, and simply can't find just the right style for it.. something always seems to be totally off, whether drums, bass, both, or another combination. I know there are probably ways to borrow a bass style, for example, from another style and import it in, but I really can't figure out how. I find the interface to be fairly confusing and complex.
Many times when a person complains about the styles they're referring to trying to create an exact or close to it cover of a classic song. Biab is not designed for that "out of the box" but it can be done by you creating a custom style for your song plus working with tracks from a midi file and/or working with a loop. Midi file tracks and loops can give you certain song specific hooks that when combined with a few Biab style tracks can sound very good. For creating covers Biab is not a one mouse click solution, it's all in the styles and for copyright reasons PG cannot give you classic song styles with all that stuff in them, you have to do that yourself or buy the styles from a 3rd party like Norton Music.
As for the complexity, yeah Biab is complex and that's a good thing. If it were simple it wouldn't be such an amazing program. Just keep plugging away and learn the good stuff.
You mentioned Real Band. RB is a great companion to Biab and I recommend to new people all the time that when you're learning Biab you should learn RB at the same time. One hour with Biab, one hour with RB. There's a lot there I won't go into here, check out the RB forum.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196 |
Quote:
BIAB is great at filling out a song idea. It is also great at backing tracks for practicing. And a bazillion other things. What it's not good at is filling in the accompaniment behind, for example, a killer bass line you just composed. You CAN get there at times, but the truth is the BIAB musicians aren't listening to you, and can't riff off of you. They are marching to a different beat, per se. Still a killer program, and great to interact with. It's just not able to interact with you. Wouldn't surprise me if the gurus at PGMusic are already working this. (See Jamstix for a drumming program that "listens" to performances to determine how it responds.) But for now, enjoy what we have!
Thanks for the tip about Jamstix 3. I use BIAB extensively as a skeleton backing that I transfer to Sonar and add my software libraries. BIAB produces some great drum backings but often it not quite right with no “up-to-date” variation (i.e. non-static) for the tune being developed because there is just a constant beat with predetermined fills. So I often have to program Ezdrummer to do the part. Jamstix 3 looks like just the thing to “drive” Ezdrummer VST or by itself that would seem to make development much easier. What is impressive is the ability to import a ‘midi groove’ from Ezdrummer for example or alternative package that is then “spiced up” by Jamstix or extracting from the ‘other styles’ option. The videos at the site are very interesting indeed.
http://www.rayzoon.com/jamstix3_vid.html
And yes for those who run BIAB exclusively a similar drumming driver would seem perhaps to be a possibility for the PGMusic magicians to research and include.
Regards F
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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