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#204923 - 05/31/13 02:26 PM [User Showcase] Can I Keep Her
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9549
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9549
Loc: Florida
A "dog song"! Who doesn't like a song about a dog!?!?
Well.. it's a love song, too. So that gives you something else to like... or not..
Okay, a friend does insist it's a bit corny. But, hey, sometimes I like corny... Hope you do, too...



CAN I KEEP HER



Here are the RealTracks -

RealTracks in style: ~~519:Bass, Electric, Pop HalfNotes Ev 120
RealTracks in style: ~~522:Guitar, Acoustic, Fingerpicking Ev 120
RealTracks in style: ~~405:Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming Ev 120
RealTracks in song: 378:Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming DoubleTime Ev 088 - halftime
RealTracks in song: 1945:Guitar, Acoustic, Rhythm GroovinFolk Ev 085
RealTracks in song: ~685:Harmonica, Background Pop Ev 120
RealTracks in song: 1264:Piano, Acoustic, Rhythm PopShiningA-B Ev 120
RealDrums in style: NashvilleEven8^5-a:Snare, HiHat , b:Snare, Ride

The harmonies are a mix of me and the BIABettes.

Have at it. Comments encouraged...

floyd

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#204935 - 05/31/13 04:26 PM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7989
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7989
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Here are a few observations:

1) I love the ol' switcheroo where you start singing about the dog and end up singing the same refrain to the girl in room 210. I bet you struggled to find words that would fit in both instances (they did! Good job!)

2) however, some of your audience may think like me, and wonder if the neighbor girl was a real dog. But you did head that off at the pass by saying she was a perfect angel (which I presume was a tie-in to "the heavens above" which is a tie-in to the parents that had to be asked if the boy could keep her...?)

3) regarding the corniness factor: we had a discussion before you were on the forum about songs that so blatantly tug on the heart strings that instead of having the desired effect they become corny instead. The 60's song HONEY (about a man's deceased wife) was thought by many to be emotionally manipulative. But an equal number of comments revealed that with some people it had the desired effect.

My conclusion about the "corn factor" is that all emotional appeal seeks a niche audience, and will be rejected by anyone outside that niche. I say "go for it" and let the chips fall where they may. Second guessing song ideas has only one effect, and that is to undermine confidence

4) a real interesting and unexpected turn might have been to team up with Boehm, and make the girl in room 210 a bionic female, and you have to ask a reluctant group of scientists if you can marry her. wink


As usual, I envy your talent. You should post something that sucks once in a while so the rest of us mortals take courage and venture into the arena without the pressure of hitting a home run every time.


Edited by Pat Marr (05/31/13 04:29 PM)

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#204937 - 05/31/13 04:37 PM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 4366
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 4366
Loc: Sacramento, California
Your songs always bring a smile to my face, and how can I not like a song that rhymes "keep her" with "deeper." The barking at the end is a nice touch - I like how it comes in with the beat, instead of waiting for the song to end.

You write these great songs that telegraph where they're going miles before you get there, but they're so well done (and sung with so much feeling) that they don't feel cliche. (Oooh. I see Pat's commented on that already).

And I like the changes over the chorus - I'm a sucker for maj7 chords. You do fun things with the rhythms, which makes the song interesting.

OK, minor nits. I understand the line "is that enough", but it somehow doesn't work for me. Maybe because when my kids tell me that, I know they've done the absolute minimum amount of work, no matter what they say.

The lyric "no one could ever love her any deeper" might make more sense the first time around as "no one will ever lover her any deeper". Then again, a certain forum member has suggested that changing lyrics to song choruses is a cardinal sin. smirk


Edited by dcuny (05/31/13 04:39 PM)
Edit Reason: Because I can.
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#204954 - 05/31/13 05:45 PM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 17412
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 17412
Loc: Australia
Hi Floyd,

When I hear a song like "Can I Keep Her", it makes me realize just how far I still have to travel along the road of learning how to be a songwriter. This is such a good song! The story flows seamlessly and the chorus develops the emotional contour of the lyrics incredibly well. Added to that are a very professional arrangement, sterling vocals and a top-shelf production.

I was going to say that "this is my new favourite song of yours", but then I stopped and thought a bit more and realised that I like all your work and I honestly don't know which one I like the best!

"Can I Keep Her" was a pleasure to listen to this wet Saturday morning here in Melbourne.

All the best,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#204959 - 05/31/13 06:06 PM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 12/13/12
Posts: 958
aleck rand Offline
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Registered: 12/13/12
Posts: 958
Originally Posted By: Pat Marr
You should post something that sucks once in a while

Pat, we're gonna be waiting a loooong time. Floyd: tremendous lyricist and story teller, authentic voice with intonation I wish I had, always straight ahead and-in-the-pocket. He seems biologically incapable of producing a bad song.

Aleck

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#204961 - 05/31/13 06:10 PM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: dcuny]
Registered: 12/13/12
Posts: 958
aleck rand Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/13/12
Posts: 958
Originally Posted By: dcuny
how can I not like a song that rhymes "keep her" with "deeper." smirk

My reaction exactly, when that lyric jumped out at me. Floyd just keep coming up with these lyrical gems over and over.

Aleck.

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#204990 - 05/31/13 09:27 PM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 2873
Loc: Karlsruhe, Germany
boehm Offline
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Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 2873
Loc: Karlsruhe, Germany
Hi Floyd,

if this is cliche then I like cliche.
I like the lyrics. (The dog's barking at the end
is my ringtone).
Great voice and wonderful Biabettes.
I'm still a fan.
Keep going on like this.
Nobody talks about the mix. It seems self-evident that
it is perfect.

Guenter
_________________________
http://www.21d.de/
Latest Song: What You Desire

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#205000 - 06/01/13 12:34 AM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4791
Sundance Offline
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Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4791
Hey it's corntry - LOL! Just kidding - I couldn't resist that one Floyd. grin The "corny" concern reminded me of the old Hee-Haw set in that corn field. There's a great tradition of down home corniness in country that continues to this day. The trick is pulling it off which you do quite well with this story song.

Sweet little ditty. Well written. Well sung. Well mixed. Created nice images in my mind that made me smile.

Enjoyed it.

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#205021 - 06/01/13 05:03 AM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 3278
Loc: York, England
ROG Offline
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Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 3278
Loc: York, England
Hi Floyd.

Everything is just as professional as ever, but it really is the lyrics which make this song work.

A very clever piece of writing and OK, some might say it's a trifle corny, but I think it's the perfect country song.

It did, however put me in mind of the saying -

"A dog is for life, not just for Friday night".

Ouch!

ROG.

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#205082 - 06/01/13 07:48 PM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9549
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9549
Loc: Florida
Thanks to everyone who has listened and commented. I think was good that I admitted to the "corn factor" up front...

Pat - You're song discussions are as entertaining as the songs themselves. Sometimes more so. When writing a song like this, you have to pretty much have it mapped out before you start writing. If you do that - and do it right, you can write that chorus aimed at both scenarios. It's actually harder to write the verses - and keep them interesting enough that the "obvious pay-off" doesn't become so much so that you lose the listener's interest.

David - I enjoy your song analysis as well... I think the "enough" line was previously qualified enough to not be "Dad, why do we have to rake the leaves..."
The difference of "will" verses "could" is a personal thing I think... either would work (for both choruses)... thanks for the thoughts and the comments.

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#205088 - 06/01/13 09:41 PM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9549
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9549
Loc: Florida
Noel - thank you for such kind words. You always say the nicest things...

Aleck - You impress me with what you can do. I am pleased that I can return the favor...

Guenter - Thanks for that. The barking is actually taken from a YouTube video that goes on for several minutes. I search through it to find just the "dog speak" that I was looking for....

Josie - you gave me a chuckle... don't you miss that corn field.. I do... thanks for your comments..

ROG - Thank you - appreciate the things you say....

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#205095 - 06/02/13 04:40 AM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 4117
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
dani48 Offline
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Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 4117
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
Hi, Floyd !:)

I really hope
you gotta keep her !:) (lol) !
In my case it was about cats rather than dogs (lol) !
I still have two cats, a black and a white one (Naomi and Lady)
But back to your wonderful tune: It is just
very enjoyable and so well made, just don´t leave
anything more to ask for !:)

Cheers
Dani

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#205100 - 06/02/13 05:19 AM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 5029
Loc: Florida
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 5029
Loc: Florida
Another good one Floyd. Ditto what's been said.


Regards,


Bob

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#205103 - 06/02/13 07:48 AM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 1815
Kemmrich Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 1815
Excellent story development and fine production and performance, as usual. You should try and do 50/90 this summer along with the rest of us crazies! Doing 50 is not a requirement, though. I have done 50/90 five or six times -- but I only hit 50 once (and over half of those were just lyrics). I am more of a 15-20/90 type of guy. A lot of my favorite songs have come from the 50/90 experiences.
_________________________
Now at bandcamp: Crows Say Vee-Eh @ bandcamp or soundcloud: Kevin @ soundcloud

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#205123 - 06/02/13 10:11 AM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 7809
Guitarhacker Offline
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Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 7809
nice work on the tune.

The mix sounds good.

I read all the comments and well..... I often write tunes just to write them. It's about writing somethings just for the sake of writing something. No commercial aspirations in mind.... just write a song.

I did a challenge to myself one year.... not unlike the 50/90 mentioned...it was 26/52 or basically one song in 2 weeks. Having a family and not being a songwriter who can devote much time to this, I thought that was a reasonable goal. I did exceed the goal.

I will struggle and fret over a line or two and even words... looking for the best, most natural way to say something. The last tune I wrote (soon to be posted) gave me fits over 2 lines....and that was after all the rewrites I did on the entire tune.

all in all a good song....corney, IDK.. but still a good exercise in writing. Having a look at the lyrics a bit closer and doing a lyrical re-write might solve that issue. The trick is to grab the heart strings and engage the listener in the emotion without being to obvious that that is your intention. Some of the co-writes I have done in the past have been quite extensive.... bouncing the lyric back and forth 7 or more times, deleting lines, words, entire verses and choruses and reworking things until we were satisfied that we had done all that we could to "get it right".....

I feel it's better to write something...anything... than to write nothing at all.

One more side bar note: Jeffry Steele..... hit country writer with well over 24 #1 hits... says he writes at least one song a day, every day and out of a full years worth of songs, about 1 in 100 are actually worthy to be pitched to artists. You gotta write alot of songs, and by doing so, you get better as you learn the skills..... it is obvious that you are working on that aspect ..... keep writing my friend.
_________________________
You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com

Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.


As the sword chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer.

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#205173 - 06/02/13 05:45 PM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9549
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9549
Loc: Florida
Dani - thanks so much for listening and commenting.

Bob - What DO I say to you? Ditto on all forthcoming sageness...!

Kevin - thanks for the listen. I thought about something like that when you guys were doing the February thing. There was a time when I wrote every day. For years. I like just doing it when it presents itself. Don't think I'm ready to try that pace again (yet). But I do look forward to hearing what you come up with (some of the last ones were awesome!)

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#205175 - 06/02/13 05:49 PM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9549
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 9549
Loc: Florida
Guitarhacker (Herb),

I appreciate the advice. Although, I did think that this song was a pretty solid write. I'd be interested in what you think needs to be re-written and how you would go about it....

Here is the lyric:

walking home from school down by the railroad tracks
i found a treasure in a burlap sack
a half-starved, half-drowned, mixed-breed mutt
she licked my face when i picked her up
i named her "hobo".... she stole my heart
i took her home, cleaned her up, and went to mom and dad
for the hardest part

can i keep her
i'll do whatever i'm asked
i won't make the same mistakes
i may have in the past
she'll have tender care
when she needs me...i'll be there
no one could ever love her any deeper
is that enough
can i keep her

me and hobo... we're both now grown
found a place in town to call our own
hobo wandered off when we first moved in
she was rescued by the girl down the hall in 210
a perfect angel... we fell in love
it's so hard to believe.... every night ask
the heavens above....

can i keep her
i'll do whatever i'm asked
i won't make the same mistakes
i may have in the past
she'll have tender care
when she needs me....i'll be there
no one could ever love her any deeper
is that enough
can i keep her

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#205212 - 06/03/13 08:23 AM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 7809
Guitarhacker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 7809
Floyd.... I don't have any suggestions right off the top of my head for a rewrite of the lyric on this. To rewrite a song can be a major project, since it may alter the song in other ways....at least it does on many of my rewrites.

One thing that I struggle with in my writing is the rhymes. as in, making them good, unique, and not predictable or boring. To me, the perfect rhyme is one that fits like a natural BUT, you didn't see it coming until you're right on it.

We all know that there needs to be rhymes in certain places.... although more and more I'm seeing exceptions to this "hard and fast rule" rise to the top of the country charts. So when I'm looking for rhymes I am seeking more often, to use unpredictable rhymes.

It's when the rhymes are too predictable that the song ventures into the corny or sappy side of things. I did not mean to infer that your writing was not good, heck that's a great country song idea and you wrote about it well.

When I do a rewrite of things in my songs I tend to use the rhyme points as the basis for the changes. This often means rewriting at least 2 complete lines especially if I change the rhyme completely. Often I find that to be the only way to "break the pattern".

There are times when I can find a new and unique rhyme for the first or second half of a given rhyme pair, that fits perfectly and completes the idea as well without sounding like it was the proverbial square peg hammered into the round hole.

Some writers use rhyming dictionaries to find words, and while I have several, I use a program called MasterWriter which I purchased many years ago. It allows me to type the word I think I want to use and rhyme, and it shows in some cases over 40 pages of words that rhyme, as well as many pages of phrases that rhyme. (the path of least resistance) Many of the phrases are cliche's and of course, you want to avoid those like the plague as well, but often something there will spark an idea that takes me to a new direction for the line I'm looking.

I often "print" a rough version of a song to MP3 and listen to it repeatedly. By doing this, the corny, boring, trite, poorly written parts will stick out to me and I let my subconscious work on that problem for a few days. When I set down to write or rewrite, sometimes the new, better part comes easy and sometimes I have to dig it out with my bare fingernails.... each time is different in some aspect. If I'm writing with someone else, I will send a note telling them I don't like such and such line(s) and lets write something new in that place. Another person's POV, when focused on one trouble spot will get a totally new thought process happening.

So... without actually digging in to do a rewrite, this is as close as I can come at this point, by telling you what I look for and to some extent, how I write and then do rewrites.

It's a zen thing.... in the moment....one of those things as you know that you often just have to be there to experience.... just one of the joys of being a songwriter.
_________________________
You can find my music at:
www.herbhartley.com

Add nothing that adds nothing to the music.


As the sword chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer.

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#205214 - 06/03/13 08:36 AM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 5029
Loc: Florida
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 5029
Loc: Florida
Priceless. Absolutely priceless. grin

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#205216 - 06/03/13 08:49 AM [User Showcase] Re: Can I Keep Her [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 2873
Loc: Karlsruhe, Germany
boehm Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 2873
Loc: Karlsruhe, Germany
Hi Floyd,

don't rewrite or change anything.
It's great as it is.

Guenter
_________________________
http://www.21d.de/
Latest Song: What You Desire

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