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Well, being a black man who has dealt with the racism inherent in this country literally every day, I think I may know something about the subject.
Not my fault that the Truth bothers you, look within.
--Mac
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Whether someone picked their equipment or had it picked for them, does it matter?
As a sort of interesting sidebar to this conversation, there's a BBC documentary called "Produced by George Martin" which is a very interesting look at his strange rise to fame at his record company largely due to what the Beatles brought to Abbey Road - which had been doing what seemed like mainly comedy albums up to that point in time. Martin and some of those artists go into depth on that discussion and how it helped him produce rock records.
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Martin was a jazz pianist.
The 2-5 change in I Wanna Hold Your Hand simply wasn't something the average rock 'n roller kid would do, while at the same time being something that a jazz pianist would do and know well, inserting the Rhythm Changes into a rock song like that, and, of course the Intro 4-6-5 and Ending changes to me are but some of many evidences of Martin's handson work with the group.
Then came the London Symphony.
I don't think that any of four kids from Liverpool would speak up one day and say, "You know what would make this? - A Baroque Concert Piccolo Trumpet Descant!"
And who WROTE that part in Penny Lane that the London Symphony trumpet player played?
Great Arrangements don't just happen by themselves.
--Mac
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Good points Mac. I have been reading up on Lennon a fascinating character warts and all. Seems he even had a go at Martin, http://music.yahoo.com/blogs/stop-the-pr...-192300104.htmlA great songwriter no doubt, but I think him and Ono two of a kind, loved the publicity and attention "hiar in, bed in baggism"etc. I like how the journalist and cartoonist, was is Al Capp cornered him at bedin, for once Lennon met his match, you can view it on youtube. Musiclover
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Well, being a black man who has dealt with the racism inherent in this country literally every day, I think I may know something about the subject.
Not my fault that the Truth bothers you, look within.
--Mac I see. You make a blatantly racist remark, and when called on it, you choose to impugn my character. Your race does not immunize you from bigotry, any more than mine does. Look within, indeed.
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Again, all I have done is point out a fact concerning record sales in the United States during the 60's.
This is a matter of record and easily researched.
Guys like 90dB who are absolutely fascinated by the ancient news concerning that George Harrison lawsuit and the judgement concerning same surely must realize the race of the winning party.
In actuality, that one event represents only the tip of the iceberg.
You would do yourself some good by researching total record sales comparing Chubby Checker's Twist dance records as versus The Beatles' one Twist offering...
It is just fact approximately 14% of the population could not in any way compete with the buying power of the remaining ~86% - even though it is easily evident that the minority invented much of the genre to begin with.
--Mac
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“Again, all I have done is point out a fact concerning record sales in the United States during the 60's.”
Actually, no – you didn't. You made a overtly racist remark, then in a cowardly manner impugned my character to deflect your own bigotry.
“You would do yourself some good by researching total record sales comparing Chubby Checker's Twist dance records as versus The Beatles' one Twist offering...”
I knew Chubby Checker. He used to work plucking chickens down in Camden before he got a record out. Used to shoot craps with him, as well as several of the Motown folks. Funny, none of them thought I was a racist.
“ Guys like 90dB...” who are absolutely fascinated by the ancient news concerning that George Harrison lawsuit and the judgement concerning same surely must realize the race of the winning party”
Yet another accusation. “Guys like” me? You don't know me at all, but then, that is the core of racism, isn't it? Hating people you don't even know because of their skin color?
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Yup, guys like you.
I see that you are the only one resorting to the name calling here, the ad honminem.
All I've done is use one word, as a description of a fact, the word was, "white".
And it is indeed a fact that the white population was the dominant majority population during the 60s, so what is racist about mentioning an easily proven fact?
How many Monkees concerts was Jimi allowed to play before complaints from outraged white parents forced the parent company to pull the plug on him?
--Mac
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I knew Chubby Checker. He used to work plucking chickens down in Camden before he got a record out. Used to shoot craps with him, as well as several of the Motown folks. Funny, none of them thought I was a racist.
Um, right. The old, "some of my best friends are..." But you know, I have never called you a racist. I wrote two words together in one sentence. "white kids" - and in description of the history of it, no less. You have supplied everything else. Methinks you doth protesteth too much. --Mac
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Man, you are something else.
“I see that you are the only one resorting to the name calling here, the ad honminem.”
A veiled ad hominem is no less odious.
“Yup, guys like you.”
“Um, right. The old, "some of my best friends are..."
“Methinks you doth protesteth too much.”
It's a wonder you can even stand up with that huge chip on your shoulder. You don't even have the backbone to stand behind your veiled accusations. Instead, you feign innocence as you imply that someone you don't even know is a racist. Pathetic.
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Martin was a jazz pianist.
...
Then came the London Symphony.
I don't think that any of four kids from Liverpool would speak up one day and say, "You know what would make this? - A Baroque Concert Piccolo Trumpet Descant!"
And who WROTE that part in Penny Lane that the London Symphony trumpet player played?
Great Arrangements don't just happen by themselves.
--Mac
I believe I can answer this definitively, at least to my satisfaction. Within the last year, I saw this very subject (the creation of the piccolo trumpet part in "Penny Lane") addressed in a documentary. I can't remember the exact subject of the documentary (George Martin, Paul McCartney, or the Beatles), nor the source of the documentary (it was likely British and shown on PBS). But I remember the revelation very clearly. I consider the source in this instance impeccable. Paul McCartney, in the recording studio, told Martin he wanted the piccolo trumpet. To my recollection, Paul did not know the official name. He called it something like "a high trumpet" or a "high horn". George knew what he was referring to. According to the source, Paul told George Martin the exact notes he wanted for the horn break. I cannot remember if the source said Paul whistled or sang "da da da" to convey the notes and the rhythm. George wrote the part down. He told Paul there was a problem. A couple of notes were above the range of the piccolo trumpet. Paul was crushed, as those were the notes. George said maybe all was not lost, that the best symphony players could sometimes exceed the standard range of an instrument by a bit, and said that they would just have to try it. It was played beautifully, without a problem. The notes played were the exact notes conveyed to George Martin by Paul McCartney. (No improvisation.) So George Martin was 1. not the composer of the piccolo trumpet part 2. not the arranger of the piccolo trumpet part according to this source, who told this story directly to the camera. I said previously that I considered the source impeccable in this instance. 2 reasons: 1. The source was there when this transpired. 2. The source had nothing to gain by lying (and something to lose). The source was George Martin. So in the instance of this "Great Arrangement", the composer and the arranger of the "Penny Lane" recording was indeed one of the "four kids from Liverpool", Paul McCartney. I do not believe that the documentary was fabricated by the British Empire using CGI or that George Martin was paid off in the interest of revisionist history. The whole assertion of the British Empire driving the Beatles is INANE! EVERYBODY who knows, KNOWS that the Beatles were a cold war creation of the KGB! P.S. Not that well known: One must be very wealthy to be Knighted. It is very expensive, and those titles provide quite a revenue stream. (As in "You can be in our club! It's a great honor! But you must pay your dues." ((The "dues" here are NOT the toil made to be worthy of club inclusion.))
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To 90dB:
I'm not the one typing the veiled threats here either.
You should give it up, please.
--Mac
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I'm not the one typing the veiled threats here either.
You should give it up, please.
--Mac Now I'm making 'veiled threats'? Incredible. You were the one who introduced race into a fun thread about the Beatles' gear. Probably because you see everything through the lens of race, and I truly pity you for that.
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Look, The Beatles were a seriously backed bidness endeavor to bring US dollars into Britain in a successful effort to create a good export industry at the time the country sorely needed same.
The book might just be more of same, actually.
The effect of the Marshall Plan was far reaching and also imitated by nations other than the ones that lost WWII.
Stating that something was a business endeavor by private individuals looking for success, and that those private individuals were surely aware of the effects of the Marshall Plan and very likely to have paid heed now has been turned into "Mac said it was the Gummint!" ... As for whoever said or wrote whatever after the fact of the arrangement, I would point out some of the claims John Lennon made as to his input and some of his rash communications in writing to Paul, Linda and Sir Martin as evidence that nobody today can even get to what obviously was the case. As for Martin, seems to me that his responses have tended towards the gentlemanly side of things, such is the case of the true gentleman. But I won't just say that "I read it once" here's a link to it: http://music.yahoo.com/blogs/stop-the-pr...-192300104.html --Mac
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I guess Frank Zappa must have been as racist as you accuse me of being as well. In his own words, from an article penned by Frank himself for Guitar Player magazine in the 80's we find the following:
Then we get to the '60s. We get there partly because R&B was being produced to death (strings on Ray Charles and Fats Domino records, etc.) and because England was starting to ship back some recycled '50s music, played by people who were younger and cuter than the original performers, to be consumed by people who were younger and cuter than the original consumers (and who, especially in the case of Rolling Stones fans, had never heard the original recordings of their revamped Slim Harpo / Muddy Waters repertoire ... and not only that, folks; if they had heard the originals, they probably wouldn't have liked them at all, since neither of the original artists named above were as prance-worthy as Mick Jagger).
Obviously, part of the recycling process included the imitation of Chuck Berry guitar solos, B.B. King guitar solos, and even some abstractions of John Lee Hooker guitar solos. The guitar was becoming more prevalent in backing arrangements on singles, especially as a rhythm instrument. Solos on most white-person records of that day and age tended to be rhythmic also, especially in surf music. Almost everything that survives in popular memory (the greatest hits, in other words) was designed for the purpose of dancing – but mainly just to sell. The '60s saw the beginnings of record production as a science in the service of commerce, with heavy emphasis on the repetition of successful formulas. The best that can be said about this period is that it brought us Jeff Beck at his feedback apex, Jimi Hendrix at this overkill-volume best, and Cream, which sort of legitimized jamming a lot onstage (so long as you could prove British descent, usually by reeling off musical quotations from blues records which most Americans had never heard. [Radio programming nerds made sure you never heard any of that stuff because Negroes were playing it, and they did their best to protect the young audiences of the '50s and early '60s from such a horrible culture shock, while over in England the better musicians were lusting after vintage blues records, actually obtaining them, and having these records form the basis of their playing traditions]).
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Mac, Zappa was spot on. If it weren’t for the British invasion and the fact that those in the invasion praised the black blues artists then most of America would have never known about them at that period of time.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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