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Hi all,
Going through some house cleaning - looking to exchange some old music toys (esp. guitars) for new ones - and by new I mean 'new to me' - I usually prefer craigslist and ebay for deals.
With regard to evaluating used guitars - it's been apparent to me that some of the more expensive name brand models feel really good to my hands; I like low action and 'ease of pushing the strings down'. Certainly I can often feel difference - and sometimes I wonder if 'ease of pushing the strings down' is simply of function of ONLY height of action and string diameter, or if there's more to it than that.
But when deciding how much to pay for that 'good' feel - I realize there are other things like intonation, 'trueness' or straightness of the neck, fret buzz, ability to stay in tune, reaction to humidity (tendency to warp or change shape) that I really don't know how to evaluate - or even if they can be evaluated during a short visit to someone's house or a neutral spot where I would be testing out the instrument.
In a store - you have the option for 'side by side' comparisons - and often, at least SOME of things like the above are easier for me to evaluate. But in isolation - like through a Craigslist meetup, it's really hard.
So - for all of you out there that often shop 'used' as I do - do you do any physical measurements or tests that give you a good feeling about the quality of an instrument - especially when buying the pricier name brand instruments ? How do you decide how much an instrument is worth paying for ?
Thanks in advance,
Joe V.
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Use an electronic tuner and tune the strings to pitch. Then fret something like a D chord trio.... now fret it one octave up past the 12th fret playing the other open strings as well. Is it still in PERFECT tune up there? Try the A chord, barres and they should all be in tune as you move around the neck low to high. If not, there are intonation issues with the guitar.
Eyeball the neck. there should be no visible twists or warps. A handy tool to use is a quality steel carpenter's square. Lay it on the neck across the frets and see that it touches all the frets equally. Examine the frets for excessive wear.
The volume, tone and switches should move smoothly and when connected to an amp, should be totally silent. There should be little to no hum, depending greatly on the kind of pickups the guitar has. The jack should be solidly mounted and there should be no static or noise when you try to wiggle the cord while it's plugged in and turned on.
Action height is more of a personal taste issue but the guitar should be easy to play in regard to the current action. If it's too high, I'd certainly ask if I could lower it and then re-tune the guitar and repeat the tests. Same deal if it's too low. Ask to raise it a bit. Low action will make the strings buzz the frets.
Play the guitar note by note while connected to an amp and also not connected to the amp. Turn the distortion off, you want a clean tone for this test regardless of how you play otherwise. Listen carefully to the notes. The note should ring clean and clear like a bell. You are listening for any fuzziness to the initial note or the fade. Fuzziness indicates a possible fret issue since that is caused by the string buzzing on a fret above where it was fretted. You must play each string, at each fret position, and press the string cleanly at the indicated fret. You will sometimes find that one string, at one fret buzzes and the rest all ring clean.
I carried my SG to a luthier to have it examined and get a quote for some possible work to be done and the above was a few of the things he did to check the condition of the guitar.
Side bar notes on my guitar:
As it turned out, the SG needed, according to him, quite a bit of work to get it back close to factory condition. Estimate was between $400 to over $600 depending on all that I wanted repaired. That didn't even factor the finish which would be needed to get it back to factory looks. That was mainly playability issues with the frets, neck, nut and bridge related things. The 40 years it was used on stages and in studios have taken their toll on the guitar. Due to a number of things, it was cheaper at that time to simply buy a new guitar (which I did) and continue to deal with the nuances of playing the SG until as such time as I get the money and trust the luthier to do a good job on all the work needed. The SG is totally playable so it's not a situation where I can't play it at all. I've raised the action a bit and plan on resetting the bridge in epoxy and solving the intonation problem this summer. Since the frets are worn a bit, they were the #1 thing it needs BUT....refretting a side bound neck was the trickiest part of the job since the binding is hard to work with due to it's age....he offered no guarantees on the binding....which I understood why.... still, that issue made me decide to wait on the work until perhaps I could send it back to Gibson's factory and let them make the repairs when I can afford that kind of misc expense.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/27/14 05:10 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Along with Herb’s excellent advice I would do the following:
- Pick a note and turn the volume and tone control for the pickup. There should be no scratching sound and the volume and tone should be a smooth transition from a 0 to a 10 setting.
- Move the pickup selector a couple of times. Again there should be no scratching sounds.
- Make sure each pickup is working
- Check where the neck attaches to the body. If it is a bold on neck check to make sure there are no shims. If it is not a bold on neck check for extra glue and/or a sloppy glue job. In either case this would indicate that the neck has been worked on.
Lastly remember that if you change string gauges on a guitar you will have to have the neck adjusted. I say this because if you use heavier or lighter gauge strings than what is currently on the guitar then it the neck has to be adjusted for that gauge string.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Eyeball the neck. there should be no visible twists or warps. A handy tool to use is a quality steel carpenter's square. Lay it on the neck across the frets and see that it touches all the frets equally. [Emphasis mine] I respectfully disagree. To the best of my knowledge, there should be a slight concave bow to the fingerboard. Think about it: If the frets were level along the length of the neck, any fingering would cause the strings to touch all of the frets, yielding unacceptable buzzing. I have, in fact, experienced this myself. While it is simple to correct, I wouldn't suggest attempting this adjustment yourself. Leave it to an experienced luthier. If this is the only thing that needs doing, it would take only a moment and be quite inexpensive (or free, depending on your relationship with the tech). R.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Eyeball the neck. there should be no visible twists or warps. A handy tool to use is a quality steel carpenter's square. Lay it on the neck across the frets and see that it touches all the frets equally. [Emphasis mine] I respectfully disagree. To the best of my knowledge, there should be a slight concave bow to the fingerboard. Think about it: If the frets were level along the length of the neck, any fingering would cause the strings to touch all of the frets, yielding unacceptable buzzing. I have, in fact, experienced this myself. While it is simple to correct, I wouldn't suggest attempting this adjustment yourself. Leave it to an experienced luthier. If this is the only thing that needs doing, it would take only a moment and be quite inexpensive (or free, depending on your relationship with the tech). R. I have to comment about the neck. I did misspeak on this. From a website regarding guitars: The square should nearly be touching the frets. The square rests on the furthest 2 frets it can reach and the ones in between should have a "hair's breadth" of clearance. A luthier has a gauge set to read the proper clearance. Probably not even enough clearance in the center to slide a business card under the square. Someone who builds or repairs guitars could provide a more accurate answer. Myth Number One: You adjust playing action with the truss rod. Fact: The truss rod found in most guitar necks is designed to offset the pull of the strings and is for keeping the neck and fretboard flat… it is not for adjusting the hight of the strings (action). Although making changes to the truss rod may affect action, the rod should be adjusted so that the neck is flat with little or no relief. Relief is the amount of bow in the neck due to the tension of the strings. On a correctly set up guitar, the neck should be nearly dead flat with no string buzz. (See the next myth for more on this.) The correct way to adjust the action is to change the height of the saddle. Lowering the saddle will lower the action for the entire neck. (Action at the first fret only is affected by changing the depth of the slots in the nut.) If your neck is flat and the action is correctly set at the 12th fret and your are experiencing string buzzing on fretted notes, the frets need leveled. Open string buzzing is usually due to incorrect nut slot width or break angle, or backbow in the neck. GUITAR MYTH Take the time to read the first 3 myths. So essentially, looking at some other luthier based sites on guitars, a "flat neck" with a very small amount of relief is acceptable. The amount will vary but should not be very much.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/28/14 04:52 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Even if the neck is not slightly concave, if the bridge is set higher than the frets, it should never be the case that pressing the string to one fret causes it to hit all the frets.
This is because if you start out with the strings parallel to the neck, as soon as you press one down it creates an angle with the low point at the fret and the high point at the bridge.
Every point between the fret and the bridge should be higher than all the other frets. If this is not true, then the bridge is set too low.
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Even if the neck is not slightly concave, if the bridge is set higher than the frets, it should never be the case that pressing the string to one fret causes it to hit all the frets.
This is because if you start out with the strings parallel to the neck, as soon as you press one down it creates an angle with the low point at the fret and the high point at the bridge.
Every point between the fret and the bridge should be higher than all the other frets. If this is not true, then the bridge is set too low. Excessive fret wear can cause the same problem can it not?
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Short version: For guitars, basses, and other stringed instruments, do everything that has been mentioned above. Test every switch, knob, tuning key, etc. Then play every note on every string at every fret.* If it is an electric or electric-acoustic axe, do this both unamplified and amplified. You heard me. Some things can show up in one mode and not the other.
This will take time and likely aggravate the sales weasel, but it could save you enormous amounts of time and grief in the long run. If they try to rush you through the process, there is probably something they don't want you to find.
R.
*Case in point: I recently paid $700 for a used MIJ fretless Fender Jazz bass. It sounded great in the store in first and second position, which was as high as I went. But once I got it home, as I played all the way up the neck on the fourth (E) string, I noticed a very unpleasant dissonance that grew more pronounced the higher I went. Fortunately, it turned out that all it needed was a $45 setup. But I should have caught it in the store, and I might have been able to get the shop to fix it or reduce the price.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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