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#252082 - 05/30/14 08:18 PM [User Showcase] Those days are gone
Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: The Netherlands
RnAM Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: The Netherlands
Hello everyone,

We thought it would be a nice idea to make a rock song (for a change). Uh....Bubblegum Rock to be more precise, ha ha.
We hope you like our new track:

Those days are gone

It's a song about the well-known "writers block". Rob wrote the song together with the drummer of the band he played in, back in 1995.
At that time the song had a totally different arrangement and rhythm.
The lyrics back then weren't exactly coherent (they sounded okay, but were actually about nothing).
Anne-Marie decided to write some additional lyrics which made more sense, added a background vocal, and suddenly we knew what this song was really about: writers block.
She also created the video.

Style:
UKBIGRK HardRock w Crisp&FuzzGuit 120RS

Used Realtracks:
683: Bass, Electric, PopHalfNotesPush Ev 120
495: Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming Ev 120
Real Drums=NashvilleEven8^8HiHatO, Ride
1000: Guitar, Electric, RythmHardRockLA FuzzyHeld Ev120
998: Guitar, Electric, RythmHardRockLACrispSync Ev 120
Soloist: 1260 Guitar Electric, SoloistPopShining Ev120, Dave Cleveland

Regards,
R & AM
_________________________
We are Rob Meulman and Anne-Marie Bovenkamp from The Netherlands.

RnAM Homepage (completely restyled)
YouTube Channel

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#252098 - 05/30/14 10:03 PM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: RnAM]
Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4414
Sundance Offline
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Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4414
R & Am,

Great work on the video. Cool Lennon vibe in the vocal. I thought the harmonies were a wee bit muddy in the mix for a rock tune but that's just my taste. Cool song - like the double entendre of the lyrics.

Good stuff. I really enjoy listening to you two.


Josie

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#252102 - 05/30/14 10:23 PM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: RnAM]
Registered: 12/21/13
Posts: 4687
Loc: Davis, CA
Greg Johnson Offline
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Registered: 12/21/13
Posts: 4687
Loc: Davis, CA
The "boys in the box" fit perfectly into this one! Very natural! I really love the sound, and the irony (writing about writer's block). Since you were in a band called "Who's next" I assume you are a Who fan. Pete Townshend is my musical idol. I believe Quadrophenia is the greatest rock album ever made. It was more than music, but became part of your DNA when you got into it. Really great work guys. Take care. Greg

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#252154 - 05/31/14 10:42 AM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: RnAM]
Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 2868
Loc: Karlsruhe, Germany
boehm Offline
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Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 2868
Loc: Karlsruhe, Germany
Hi Rob and Anne-Marie,

that rock feeling suits you well.
Enjoyable listen.

Guenter
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Latest Song: What You Desire

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#252215 - 05/31/14 10:20 PM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: RnAM]
Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1626
gruverider Offline
Expert

Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 1626
nice work and another vivid and creative video!

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#252272 - 06/01/14 04:18 PM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: Sundance]
Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: The Netherlands
RnAM Offline
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Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: The Netherlands
Hi Sundance,

Thanks for the reply. And yes you are right about the somewhat "muddy" sound of the vocals. I already stated in another post, that I tend to have some sharp s's in my vocals. Putting too many high frequencies in the vocal will enhance those.
We use a de-esser, but that doesn't completely solve the problem.

Any additional tips on this are very welcome.

Regards,
Rob
_________________________
We are Rob Meulman and Anne-Marie Bovenkamp from The Netherlands.

RnAM Homepage (completely restyled)
YouTube Channel

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#252273 - 06/01/14 04:24 PM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: Greg Johnson]
Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: The Netherlands
RnAM Offline
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Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: The Netherlands
Hello Greg,

Actually the name "Who's next" didn't have anything to do with the Who.
The guitarist of the band came up with this name (as in "Who's the next girl I'm gonna score", wink

I really love Roger Daltrey's voice though.
Thanks for the nice comment.

Regards,
Rob
_________________________
We are Rob Meulman and Anne-Marie Bovenkamp from The Netherlands.

RnAM Homepage (completely restyled)
YouTube Channel

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#252292 - 06/01/14 08:09 PM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: RnAM]
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 6258
Guitarhacker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 6258
Originally Posted By: R & AM
Hi Sundance,
And yes you are right about the somewhat "muddy" sound of the vocals. I already stated in another post, that I tend to have some sharp s's in my vocals. Putting too many high frequencies in the vocal will enhance those.
We use a de-esser, but that doesn't completely solve the problem.

Any additional tips on this are very welcome.


I like the song. It has an old country rock feel to it. I love that LA Hard Rock style....I use it on quite a few of my country songs....

OK... the way I handle sibilants on the "S" sounds if they are a problem.

You want to have the track sufficiently bright so that the listener can hear the words clearly, but at the same time avoid the distortion in the high end that comes from very hot "S" sounds.

My solution is accomplished in a DAW. Real Band is a DAW so if that's all you have , find out and learn how to do this in Real Band....I have Sonar so I'm referencing the functionality of it.

After recording the track, and pitch fixing the track with melodyne, I then write down the "other" problems I hear such as doubles that don't line up or end out of sync or SIBILANCE. I write down where they are located so I can find them easily.

OK...I go to the location and set my NOW marker right before the event. I then zoom in to a comfortable point where I can see where the sibilant part of the wave is located. I select or highlight the track and move it to the top of the track view. I drag the mouse over the sibilant part on the time line and that section of the track darkens to indicate it's highlighted. Now, I double check to see that ONLY the sibilant part is highlighted. I choose Process Audio Gain -2db and APPLY it. I click play and listen. If it's still too sibilant, I simply APPLY the gain reduction again since the part is still selected. I will repeat this as many times as I determine to be needed to reduce the sibilance to where it sounds like a normal "S" in the phrase.

All a sibilant is, is an "S" that was recorded too hot. Unless the mic was overloaded, and often, it wasn't, gain reduction on that tiny section will work wonders and save the track. That allows you to apply a normal EQ that keeps the brightness and "air" in the track and doesn't fry the tweeters.

NOTE: to add, this can also be accomplished very often using volume envelopes. I use the process audio with gain reduction because to insert the envelope to control that, you need 4 nodes inserted manually in a very limited and tiny area, it's just easier for me to drag and highlight the tiny section.

hope that helps you solve the sibilant problem.

BTW: this same method also works to reduce or eliminate breath noises, clicks and pops, and string squeaks on acoustic guitars. If you listen carefully on the last song by me, in the acoustic guitar solo, you can barely hear the squeaks. those started life pretty loud....


Edited by Guitarhacker (06/01/14 08:14 PM)
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#252312 - 06/02/14 01:44 AM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: RnAM]
Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 3665
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
dani48 Offline
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Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 3665
Loc: Helsinki, Finland
Hi, R % AM !

Very nice rocker !
Enjoyed it truly much !:))

Cheers
Dani

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#252341 - 06/02/14 07:49 AM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: RnAM]
Registered: 12/13/13
Posts: 702
olemon Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/13/13
Posts: 702
Writer's block. Yep, have one about that myself:)

Big full sound on this. Enjoyable melody. Keep 'em coming.
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and here:
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#252401 - 06/02/14 03:43 PM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: Guitarhacker]
Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: The Netherlands
RnAM Offline
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Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: The Netherlands
Hi Guitarhacker,
Thanks for the info.
We use Cubase for editing and we have used "gain" control for this before. It's a good idea to use this as much as possible instead of a de-esser. We'll try to keep the sound of the vocals as crisp as possible.
About Melodyne, it's a great tool, but very expensive......
Luckily the demo can be used freely for thirty days or so.

Regards,
R & AM
_________________________
We are Rob Meulman and Anne-Marie Bovenkamp from The Netherlands.

RnAM Homepage (completely restyled)
YouTube Channel

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#252402 - 06/02/14 03:47 PM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: olemon]
Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: The Netherlands
RnAM Offline
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Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: The Netherlands
Yes, as easy as it is to create musical arrangements with BiaB......
the harder it's getting to create interesting singing lines and lyrics.
Unfortunately there aren't any good auto lyric's creators on line whistle
_________________________
We are Rob Meulman and Anne-Marie Bovenkamp from The Netherlands.

RnAM Homepage (completely restyled)
YouTube Channel

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#252411 - 06/02/14 05:52 PM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: RnAM]
Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 3838
Loc: Alabama, USA
Al-David Offline
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Registered: 12/29/12
Posts: 3838
Loc: Alabama, USA
Very, very nice! We really enjoyed this one! It reminds us of late 60's rock with a touch of moire modern country. Regardless, it sounds great and we really enjoyed the listen! Nice work!

Alan & Di
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#252420 - 06/02/14 06:43 PM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: RnAM]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 6871
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 6871
Loc: Florida
Anne-Marie and Rob,

I like the sound and feel of this. The production is full, yet never gets in the way of the vocal. Thought the harmonies could have been up some - you guys do such a nice job on them. The hard panning of the vocal was a little distracting at first, but I became accustom to it - might have been because I was listening with headphones..

floyd
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#252544 - 06/03/14 05:29 PM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: floyd jane]
Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: The Netherlands
RnAM Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: The Netherlands
Hello Floyd,
Thanks.
You're right about the harmonies being kind of low. We experimented with the Doubler VST on Rob's vocal. It surely creates a "thicker" vocal, but it also tends to dominate the song a little too much.
This weekend however we'll be posting another true ballad (defenitely without Doubler). laugh
_________________________
We are Rob Meulman and Anne-Marie Bovenkamp from The Netherlands.

RnAM Homepage (completely restyled)
YouTube Channel

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#252597 - 06/04/14 07:32 AM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: RnAM]
Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 6258
Guitarhacker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 6258
Originally Posted By: R & AM
We experimented with the Doubler VST on Rob's vocal. It surely creates a "thicker" vocal, but it also tends to dominate the song a little too much.


Use doubling.... but do it manually, not with fx.
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www.herbhartley.com

Add nothing that adds nothing to the music

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#252604 - 06/04/14 08:01 AM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: RnAM]
Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 1815
Kemmrich Offline
Expert

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 1815
Nice tune. The lead vox is a slightly too loud, I think. I would drop the panned doubled vocal and just have the vocal (or doubled vocal) right up the middle. After that you can decide if the harmonies are too low.

"ssss" sounds (and t's, d's, etc.): I fade out or cut any additional voices on the "s" endings (if it is needed). That way you reduce that effect and don't have to worry about the timing also.

Keep going, sounds good.
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#252782 - 06/05/14 06:23 PM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: RnAM]
Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4840
Loc: Florida
90 dB Offline
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Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4840
Loc: Florida
I really like what you guys are doing. If I had to categorize it, I'd call it Folk-Rock. As for de-essing, you might want to try a parametric EQ, narrow Q and sweep to find the offending frequency.



Regards,

Bob

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#252802 - 06/05/14 07:37 PM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: 90 dB]
Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: The Netherlands
RnAM Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 3180
Loc: The Netherlands
Thanks guys for all of these tips.
And yes, doubling the voice will probably work better when done 'naturally'.
We will definitely keep it in mind next time we're recording something.

Regards,
R & AM
_________________________
We are Rob Meulman and Anne-Marie Bovenkamp from The Netherlands.

RnAM Homepage (completely restyled)
YouTube Channel

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#252811 - 06/05/14 09:00 PM [User Showcase] Re: Those days are gone [Re: RnAM]
Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 1654
Loc: New Zealand
RichMac Offline
Expert

Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 1654
Loc: New Zealand
Hi Rob and Anne Marie. Enjoyed this song. Particularly liked the guitar and the video. I find it difficult to follow the lyrics unless they are posted somewhere. Cheers. Richard.
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