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#250689 05/21/14 05:47 PM
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HI BIABoxers,

This is my first post and unfortunately it is not a very happy one.
I am really frustrated trying to use this program with the Coyote DXI
software I brought. I know it can be alot of fun but I am just frustrated right now.

Just paid for and downloaded the latest version of BIAB. I am very disappointed in its
complexity. I used it a few years ago (2008 version) and remember enjoying it but this
is like taking a class in calculus and getting a D. I have spent alot of time
looking for answers to my issues below and am not finding any. If anyone has
a suggestion more specific than 'look at the BIAB support site' I would be very, very
happy to hear it.

First, and biggest issue is that I cannot use the Coyote DXI stuff that I bought
and paid for. If I have "Use VST/DXI Synth" checked I get absolutely no sound.
Also, how can I tell if I have registered Coyote? I am specifying "Coyote WaveTable DXi" and "Coyote ForteDXI"
at the top right of the "MIDI/Audio Drivers Setup". Absolute silence though i can see the sound levels
bouncing around and doing what should be doing.

Second issue. Every time I hit the 'play' icon I get the error message
"Error: The waveform device can't play this format"
Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim Lee

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Alright Jim,
Let's see if I can't help somewhat here.

Fist, let's get your synth loaded.

Go to the Opt. menu and select MIDI/Audio driver Setup. I don't know if you have a MIDI keyboard or such, or if you have an External MIDI synth, but if you do, set your MIDI Input out Output drivers for your MIDI Interface.

Next, at the top right of the box, under the Synthesizer/Sound Card drop down, select General MIDI instrument Misc.

Below that, verify that the Checkbox for Use VST/DXi Synth is checked.

IF you are playing from some sort of MIDI controller, i.e., a MIDI keyboard with no sounds, verify that the Route MIDI Thru to MIDI Driver box is checked.

Below that, there is the VST/DXi Synth Settings button. Please press that.

The VST/DXi Synth/Plugins box will open. At the top right, there are four drop downs, and at the top left, there are buttons for each of the parts. Please select 'Default Synth' button at the bottom of the column.

The Top Drop Down on the right side is the only drop down used for Synths, the rest of them are plug ins. The Top drop down CAN be used for plug ins, also, if you have an audio track only.
From the Drop Down menu, select the <DXi> Coyote WT. Below that, make sure the second drop down says Forced MIDI Channel = NONE.

Click the X to close out of this window. This will now bring you back to the MIDI/Audio Driver Setup Window.

At the bottom right hand side, please press the Audio Settings button.

This opens the Audio Drivers panel.

At the Top right, I recommend that you have ASIO as your driver type, but it may not work, so you may have to go to MME.
Below that is the Audio Drivers button. Please press that.
This will give you a list of available sound devices on your computer. Select the output that is connected to your speakers or headphones. Click OK to exit back to your song.

Press Play.

If it does NOT work, I will need to know what kind of sound card you have, what your settings are, and as much detail as possible about your set up to help troubleshoot it.

Gary


I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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sasjzl,

Welcome back, Ya major changes.

BUT really excellent new videos for experienced and other levels.

http://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htm

Does take bit of time, but time well spent.


Last edited by seeker; 05/21/14 08:40 PM.

FrankB

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sasjzl Offline OP
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Thank you very much for taking the time Gary. My responses are in parentheses
==========================================================================================

Go to the Opt. menu and select MIDI/Audio driver Setup. I don't know if you have a MIDI keyboard
(Yes.......Alesis QX49)


or such, or if you have an External MIDI synth, but if you do, set your MIDI Input out Output drivers for your MIDI Interface.
(IN=QX49 Out=GS wavetable)

Next, at the top right of the box, under the Synthesizer/Sound Card drop down, select General MIDI instrument Misc.
(Check)

Below that, verify that the Checkbox for Use VST/DXi Synth is checked
(Check.

IF you are playing from some sort of MIDI controller, i.e., a MIDI keyboard with no sounds, verify that the Route MIDI Thru to MIDI Driver box is checked.
(Check)

Below that, there is the VST/DXi Synth Settings button. Please press that.

The VST/DXi Synth/Plugins box will open.
(Nothing opens. Tried switching all the Midi out= options. THe color of the box changes briefly when I click on it but that is all that happens)


At the top right, there are four drop downs, and at the top left, there are buttons for each of the parts. Please select 'Default Synth' button at the bottom of the column.

The Top Drop Down on the right side is the only drop down used for Synths, the rest of them are plug ins. The Top drop down CAN be used for plug ins, also, if you have an audio track only.
From the Drop Down menu, select the <DXi> Coyote WT. Below that, make sure the second drop down says Forced MIDI Channel = NONE.

Click the X to close out of this window. This will now bring you back to the MIDI/Audio Driver Setup Window.

At the bottom right hand side, please press the Audio Settings button.

This opens the Audio Drivers panel.

At the Top right, I recommend that you have ASIO as your driver type, but it may not work, so you may have to go to MME.
Below that is the Audio Drivers button. Please press that.
This will give you a list of available sound devices on your computer. Select the output that is connected to your speakers or headphones. Click OK to exit back to your song.

Press Play.

If it does NOT work, I will need to know what kind of sound card you have
(RealTek High Definition Audio, I think. How do I find out? It is a Lenovo V5700 laptop, windows 7 64bit with 6GB memory)

, what your settings are, and as much detail as possible about your set up to help troubleshoot it.

(Alesis QX49 keyboard with usb connection powered by a seperate power supply.
Lenovo V570 with RealTek High Definition Audio Speakers)


(Question. Since I don't even know what kind of sound card I have it probably is not such a good one I suspect.
Is there a way that I can add an external sound card using either hdmi or usb connection? THough I thought
that was what Coyote WaveTable was about?
Tell me any other information you might need.
Thanks very much)

Gary
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Jim,
You have a RealTexk soiund chip.

Here's what bothers me. The VST/DXi drop down box doesn't open. It SHOULD open. If the Use VT/DXI box is UNCHECKED, it will be greyed out, but as soon as you cick it, it will open.

I recommend uninstalling Band In A Box and reinstalling it. From where I set, I don't see an option.

IF after you've done the reinstall, it doees't work we can explore other available options, like allowing me acces to your computer via an Interet program to look at the install, and see what's going on.

Gary


I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
sasjzl #250833 05/23/14 07:48 AM
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sasjzl Offline OP
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Will do Gary.
You rock.

sasjzl #250847 05/23/14 09:22 AM
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Once Gary gets you up and running (don’t need me trying to give additional back seat directions) your first post alluded that not only had you bought BIAB but that you ALSO bought (for an additional $40) the add-on called "Coyote Forte DXI" synth?


If you paid for this synth plug-in, and installed it, it WILL eventually, after Gary gets you going, show up as the DXi called "ForteDXi Plugin." The DXi listed as "Coyote WT" is the freebie that comes with BIAB - and it is pretty "weak" to say the least - the $40 Forte is pretty good.


Good luck
Larry


Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Ok. I have gotten alot farther thanks to you all.
I am pretty sure that I have the "Forte DXI" sounds working.

Questions:
If I do have the above mentioned Forte sounds setup correctly should the instrument colors be yellow signifying MIDI?

Why do the instrument names not match what I have assigned (and hear) in the Forte DXI window?

Two serious problems with Styles and one chronic one
with the application.
1 -
I cannot pick a style directly in style picker. I don't get any error messages and it does not stop BIAB but it is as if I did not do anything. The only way I can change the style is if I do "Next Selection" or "previous selection". So I am stuck paddling through the sytles sequestially starting from whereever BIAB set me down.

2 -
Very often though not always BIAB will shut down when I change styles. When it starts to happen that is the end of the session in the sense that I can no longer change the style. I can use the current style until I quit bIAB but cannot change it.

3 -
BIAB shuts down with a very generic error reading
"Band In a Box has stopped working"
"A problem caused the program to stop working..."
The only option is to "Close Program".
This happens in so many different situations it would take me most of the rest of the day to document them all. It comes right up after I close it but it closes much more often than any working application that I have used. It is as if everytime it hits a 'bump in the road' it simply shuts down.

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Addendum whining:

- I don't know how to change instruments in Forte DXI.
I go to the track and click on a new instrument and it shows up for a moment and then goes away.
WHen I click on one of the buttons on the left side, for example "Thru", it takes me to sampletank
which I am not using.

- I have been able to my generic ASIO drive once but normally it shuts down all the sound and I have
to switch to MIME. Unforutnately "MIME" provides incredibly long latency. Hit the key on my keyboard
and then sometime in the near future I hear the sound.

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If you're willing and he is available let Gary access your computer and he'll get you going. He's one of the true "pro's" here.

I'll just say don't change patches in the Forte DXi window, that is for power users. Any softsynth will allow you to change patches in the synth itself but that is for when you're not using the default GM (General Midi) setup. Biab uses GM as a default and so does the Forte DXi. You may not know what GM is, for now don't worry about it just change the instruments in Biab's main window and the Forte will play the correct sound.

Next, don't blow off Sampletank it's a very good softsynth for you to use. You need it to access the HI-Q midi sounds. Plus IKMultimedia have sales all the time. The last one you could have bought their Omnisynth GM soundbank for ten bucks. That sounds better than the Forte IMHO but is not as simple to use.

IKM have non GM sound libraries that are world class and will really up your sound quality but using them requires more work for you because if you're not using GM then you have to set up each instrument manually. You can usually buy them on sale for maybe $29.95 or so.

I don't want to go too far here because you may not have any interest in this, many don't. Lots of folks are perfectly happy to just use a decent GM soundset and leave it at that. Forte is good for that and it does make things much easier.

Bob


Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Questions:
If I do have the above mentioned Forte sounds setup correctly should the instrument colors be yellow signifying MIDI?

All synth tracks will be shown in Yellow, Real Tracks are shown in Green, and Red indicates that the track is Muted. Cyan, or light blue, indicates a Super MIDI track.
Why do the instrument names not match what I have assigned (and hear) in the Forte DXI window?
I don’t know how you would change something in the Forte DXi window, it only displays what’s being chosen by settings elsewhere. Of course, I may also have an older version of it, and not have that ability.


Two serious problems with Styles and one chronic one
with the application.
1 -
I cannot pick a style directly in style picker. I don't get any error messages and it does not stop BIAB but it is as if I did not do anything. The only way I can change the style is if I do "Next Selection" or "previous selection". So I am stuck paddling through the sytles sequestially starting from whereever BIAB set me down.

There are two parts to the Style Picker button. Above the line shows a keyboard, drum and guitar, and below the line in the word ‘Style’ and a down arrow. Click on the lower part of the button, and select the first line from the menu that comes up; StylePicker. This opens the the Style Picker window.

2 -
Very often though not always BIAB will shut down when I change styles. When it starts to happen that is the end of the session in the sense that I can no longer change the style. I can use the current style until I quit bIAB but cannot change it.

3 -
BIAB shuts down with a very generic error reading
"Band In a Box has stopped working"
"A problem caused the program to stop working..."
The only option is to "Close Program".
This happens in so many different situations it would take me most of the rest of the day to document them all. It comes right up after I close it but it closes much more often than any working application that I have used. It is as if everytime it hits a 'bump in the road' it simply shuts down.

For the last two problems, I’m wondering about your computer. The specs on it would be nice, as well as
1. Do you have antivirus and anti malware software installed, and if so, which ones
2. How many hard drives do you have, and how much available space on each of them. Please indicate ‘Drive C: is 500GB and has 373GB free space.” Please do this for each drive.
3. When was the last time you defragmented your hard drives?
4. Tell me about your computer. What kind of processor, how much RAM and what OS. Okay, nevermind, I have that information, but I still need to know about the hard drive. If you’re going to do audio recording, I also recommend the purchase of an external hard drive where you can store all the audio for your tracks. It makes it so much easier on the computer if your audio is on one physical hard drive and the drivers and software and OS are on a completely different drive.


Addendum whining:

- I don't know how to change instruments in Forte DXI.
I go to the track and click on a new instrument and it shows up for a moment and then goes away.
WHen I click on one of the buttons on the left side, for example "Thru", it takes me to sampletank
which I am not using.


In your Audio/MIDI Preferences windows, is the Forte DXi selected in the VSTi/DXi drop down menu? It should be. At the top right of the screen, there is the Mixer panel, which also has Plugins, Piano and Patches tabs. Select the Plugins Tab, please.

On any YELLOW instrument, there will be four instances of [None] on the top line, and an Instrument: XX Name. Click the left most [None].
The VST/DXI Synths/Plugins window opens. At the very bottom on the left side, there is a button that says ‘Default Synth.’

Please press that.

At the top right, the first plugin should say <DXi> ForteDXi Plug-In. Below that, you should see a list of the instruments for each channel. It will have the instrument number, or ‘Program Change’ value, and the name of the instrument.
Starting at the top, on the left hand side, click each instrument part button, EXCEPT the Default Synth, and if there are ANY plug ins at all, remove them. Each of the four drop downs for each part button should say ‘None.’

Close the window.

Look at your plug in tab. Which instruments are yellow, and which are green? On any that are yellow, i.e., your Melody, click the ‘Instrument: XX Name line.

The Menu flyout appears, and you need to select “Select MIDI Patch.”

An additional flyout appears asking you to select NO MIDI Patch, General MIDI Patch, or GM2 Patch, and finally Higher Bank Patch. There are also a list of favorite patches below that you can select from. I recommend using the General MIDI patch for now, until we get this all worked out.

Select the sound you wish to hear for this particular part, and click on it. You can do this for any instrument part that is in Yellow. If you attempt to select an instrument part for a RealTrack, it won’t do anything.


- I have been able to my generic ASIO drive once but normally it shuts down all the sound and I have to switch to MIME. Unforutnately "MIME" provides incredibly long latency. Hit the key on my keyboard and then sometime in the near future I hear the sound.

The RealTek drivers are not ASIO drivers. I recommend installing ASIO4ALL. http://www.asio4all.com/

Gary


I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
seeker #253737 06/14/14 10:21 AM
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Ok. Still at it. I think that I have the Forte DXi thing down. Now I need to find out more about the MIME versus ASIO driver deal. When I initially used MIME I had a latency that was too much to use at all seriously. I downloaded ASIO4ALL driver and if memory serves me the latency went away and I was happy. Now, somehow or way, the same kind of crazy latency that I experienced with MIME is happening when using teh ASIO driver. I do not know of anything that I have changed since the latency seemed to be tamed but I have been doing alot of changing in the course of testing and learning. Alot of 'ings'.

So my current question is; is there another ASIO4ALL driver that I might want to try using with Forte DXI ? Is it possible that either PG Music of the Forte folks have either a recommmended ASIO driver for a nominal cost or that comes with the Forte DXI $40 package that I am not aware of? Any ideas on how I had thought I had dealt with the latency earlier with the switch from MIME to ASIO and now it is back?

Also, is it possible that with the latest version of BIAB on Windows 7 there is a bug where you cannot directly choose a new style but must do 'next' or 'previous' or 'previously used' style to get a new style? I suppose that at some point I will get every possible style in my 'previously used' styles pool but it is kind of tiresome paddling through every style sequentially using 'next style'.

Thanks very much,
Jim Lee

sasjzl #253739 06/14/14 10:43 AM
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Hi Jim. Sorry you've been having so much trouble. You are fortunate to have Gary on the case; he's the best.

1. Always better to change one thing at a time, then test. Hard to resist, I know...

2. There is only one ASIO4ALL driver available, and it has no relation to Coyote Forte or any other synth you might consider. ASIO4ALL is not ASIO, but a wrapper for MME, and I'm not surprised you are getting latency. You have a RealTek sound card, and I suggest you consider upgrading that.

3. No. I have Windows 7 and do not have to choose like you describe.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Matt Finley #253759 06/14/14 05:31 PM
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How would I upgrade the sound card? It is a Lenovo laptop V570. Are there sound cards that you can add on using USB or HDMI? If I can get rid of the latency I am eager to do it I just don't know anything about sound cards.

Thanks,
Jim Lee

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Yes, there are many choices that use USB.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Okay Jim,
Latency is set by the buffer size in the ASIO4All Offline setting panel. The smaller the buffer size, the harder the computer works, but the lower your latency is. Try 256 samples, but you'll probably end up with 512. Of course, you have to have ASIO set and ASIO Always On set in the Audio Devices windows.

You need to check and make sure that you have ASIO selected in the Audio Driver panel, AND you also need to make sure that you have ASIO4ALL selected as your ASIO driver. Finally, you need to make sure your Sound Card is selected as the default device in ASIO4ALL, and that it’s ‘illuminated.’

As Matt said, ASIO4ALL is simply a wrapper, but it does do the job. There will be no other driver from PG Music or Coyote for the software, it’s all involved in the hardware.

Style Picker.
On the Style button, there is an upper 2/3rds and a lower 1/3rd of the button. Press the lower third, where it stays “Style” and the down arrow. A submenu drops down, pick Style Picker, which is the first selection, from the menu, and it’ll open the normal Style Picker Window.
There is also a menu item for setting the default setting of the upper half of the button, and one of those is the Style Picker window, so if you set that, the Style Picker will open every time you press the top of the button.

USB Sound card.

Sound Card should be defined as an Audio Interface. A device that allows you to input and output Audio. It converts Analog into Digital Data, and Digital Data into Analog voltage, which drives an amplifier, which drives speakers, which recreates sound.

Sound Generator.
A device that using stored data will reproduce sounds of specific instruments, i.e., piano, bass, guitar, etc. A Sound Generator following the General MIDI standard will support 128 sounds. Most sound generators have hundreds of sounds. Sound Generators are also called synthesizers.

Combo Devices.
A device capable of creating sound, a synthesizer, but also has audio inputs and outputs that connect to your computer. PG Music sells a very nice one, called the Roland SD-50. It is a USB device that has 1,125 sounds, multi-timbral, supports 128 notes of polyphony and has 128MB of stored ROM data. There are other multiple features this has, including one stereo pair of line inputs and outputs, a Mic jack, and a guitar DI jack.

Now, you already have a 49 key midi controller, but what *I* would do would be to sell that. I’m going to scare you. smile

I would recommend that you purchase one of the less expensive home keyboards. In particular, I’m thinking the Yamaha PSR-E443, for about $250 at Musician’s Friend.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/yamaha-psr-e443-61-keys-portable-keyboard

This will give you a keyboard to input your song with, while at the same time, giving you 750+ sounds for Band In A Box to play back to. To give you an idea of what it can sound like, watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVpwmPRL79Q

Of course,if you wanted to spend a little more, you could get the Yamaha PSR-S650

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/yamaha-psr-s650-61-key-arranger-workstation?pfm=sp

A Demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRk78twv9zo

You might also consider a Korg PA300. We’ve moved up in price, but the quality of the sounds are great.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/korg-pa300-61-key-arranger

There are two demo videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKSBdR_UiJE and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSJkMSzt_pw

Then, you can buy an external Audio Interface:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/alesis-io2-express-audio-interface

Or, something like this.

A M-Audio M-Track.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/m-audio-m-track-with-ignite

Looks a lot like this Alesis, and the Alesis is cheaper on sale.

You also could go with a Yamaha audio interface and mixer in one!

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/yamaha-audiogram-6-computer-recording-system

Anyway, there are a LOT of options that you can use to turn your laptop into a great recording studio. The sounds from the Korg and the Yamaha S650 should satisfy any of your desires, and depending on how much you want to spend for the audio interface, you can get two, or even up to six channels of input, including two mic inputs on the Yamaha.

I hope this answers some of your questions.

We can go on from here, and decide what else you might want to do.
Gary


I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Thanks for all the great information.

I have a Casio PS-20 keyboard which has a full size 'hammer like' action that plays sounds from my Quadrasynth+ so this is my backup semi-portable system as of now. THe keyboard feel does stink though as I tend to play closer to the fallboard (or equivalent thereof)and the spring action is too tight so I have to learn to play back on the keys, towards the front of the board, to get enough leverage to make the notes play the way I want. Maybe that is a good thing for me to learn. I have scratch up my real pianos fallboard enough that I had to put a piece of plexiglass above the keys to protect it.

I haven't been in the Musicians Friends catalogs since I purchased the Quadrasynth so I am way, way behind on the technology that is available. What I think I am looking for now is the best sound upgrade that I can hang off a usb port to use with my laptop to use with ForteDXI and BIAB. By the way, is there any such thing as a 49key keyboard with anything like a real piano hammer type feel? I was very close to buying a really basic Fatar 49 key but it did not have a sustain jack.

Thanks very much,
Jim Lee

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I just wanted to add this: Using the factory chip sound card is not the best way to work in audio with advanced programs like BB. (and others)

You should seriously look into an external interface that connects with USB and runs the native ASIO drivers as opposed to the ASIO4ALL wrapper. Also avoid the interfaces that use "codecs" because they too have issues you don't want or need. My BB on the laptop runs fine on MME drivers BUT.... I can not use it in RB to run audio and midi without getting serious latency. When I connect my Saffire Focusrite interface, and load BB fresh.... it grabs the ASIO driver and there is no latency. On my desk top it's very similar.... I try to use ASIO when I can because it works better. However, only one of the programs running at a given time will get the ASIO driver and that's the first one that gets opened.

Choose the interface based on your needs. The number of inputs and outputs is the big variable. More inputs equals more expensive. Do check to see that it has quality audio input pre-amps, and phantom power.

Once you get a synth set up as the default, you should not have to do that again while working on BB. The wavetable synth is the bottom of the barrel...essentially the worst sounding one. Coyote and TTS are decent as far as midi based synths are concerned. I use TTS.

Beyond all of these issues, BiaB is a very complicated program as you mentioned earlier by comparing it to calculus. I wouldn't go that far, but it does have extensive capabilities and therefore, a learning curve that will take you some time to understand. There are parts and functions in BB that I haven't even touched. My philosophy is I will learn those things, if and when I ever need them. So don't sweat the functions. Take them one at a time.


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Jim, the QuadraSynth Plus is a General MIDI keyboard. Personally, I would compare a MIDI file played with the ForteDXi and the QuadraSynth Plus and see which is better. While almost 20 years old, I'd be willing to bet is still has some pretty good sounds in it.

As to a 49 key hammer action feel keyboard, none that I know of.

Gary


I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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