|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 604
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 604 |
We intend to hook up 2 R16's to get 16 tracks. In order to get a good isolation between the tracks we would record one instrument at a time. This would demand us to first record a cue track and then record a single instrument one at a time. When that was done we could reuse the cue track. Each player could then perfect his track (at home if he'd like).Would this be a way to go? Or do you see any problems?
Strat
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,632
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,632 |
What are you going to record to? The R16's or a computer?
I'm not saying you can't do it, but at first glance the R16 has no digital connection to sync them together. So getting two of them to play nice may be problematic.. check that out before going this route.
Otherwise you'll have to export the tracks from the R16's to a DAW and try to sync them there, so you may as well record in a DAW to begin with.
Need more details on your plan.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732 |
Another thing to think about is feel. If everyone records their own part separately, it may not sound as good as a few of them recording it live together.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,095
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,095 |
Assuming you are referring to the Zoom R-16 - it is a stand alone 16 track recorder. If you are recording each track individually,one at a time, there is no need to use two separate units. The R-16 also has a built in metronome with a count in so there is no need to give up a track for a cue track. There are two banks of 8 tracks each. The isolation between tracks is sufficient to record multiple inputs at once for instruments that plug in such as keyboards, electric guitars, electric bass, etc. Mic'd vocals and instruments you want to avoid cross feed may be recorded individually to isolate them. Backing vocals would not be as critical and may actually sound better with some cross feed between tracks. Individual taste.
The R-16 is designed to sync two units together via a USB connection without the need of a computer. It has two usb connections so be careful to use the correct one and that the sync connection is enabled by the menu. If you have two units, you have access to 32 tracks in four banks for your final mixdown.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 604
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 604 |
The R16's are meant to be daysie chained (via USB) though Zoom warns that there is a 1 to 2mS delay! I'm aware of the problems that may arise when layering track by track, but isn't that what is normally done in studios? We're recording in our rehearsal room and have too much bleed through to be able to rerecord a single track! The old track cannot be totally erased because it bled through the other tracks!
Strat
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,153
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,153 |
If you're looking for 16 tracks, unless they're going to be stereo tracks,why do you need to have two R16s? A single R16 already has 16 tracks available for recording. Why not just use one?
Now, if they are going to be stereo tracks, yes, you'll need to have two, but this also begs the question, do you really need two?
If you're going to do the final mix down on the computer with a DAW, you can record a cue track and seven stereo audio tracks, then copy the stereo audio tracks to a DAW on a computer, and then leave the cue track and record another seven stereo tracks, move them to a computer, and record two more stereo tracks. That gives you sixteen stereo tracks. As long as you leave the cue track in place, I don't see the problem.
Remember, the R16 is not limited to eight tracks of recording, however it IS limited to eight tracks of simultaneous recording. You said you were going to record each track separately, so you can record your cue track and 15 more tracks on one unit.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 604
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 604 |
The R16 can record, simultaneously, 8 tracks, for the drums alone we need 6-7 tracks, if we end up record one track at a time for the other instruments you're right but then you'll have to disconnect the drum microphones, tamper with the pots, all in all it's much neater with two R16s :-)
Strat
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,153
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,153 |
The R16 can record, simultaneously, 8 tracks, for the drums alone we need 6-7 tracks, if we end up record one track at a time for the other instruments you're right but then you'll have to disconnect the drum microphones, tamper with the pots, all in all it's much neater with two R16s :-)
Strat The way you described it,that is what it sounded like you were going to to, one instrument at a time, at home, even. However, I would still record one instrument at a time, even if it is 6-7 tracks, then transfer it to a DAW on a computer, mix down the tracks on the computer, and put them back as one mono track on the device, and then let the next person do their part, import that track to the DAW, mix it down with the previous tracks to a mono track, and then send it on to every person until all the tracks are recorded. Then, you'll have all the individual track or sets of tracks in the computer DAW and you can mix all of them down to your final mix there. But, that's just me. G
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Do you already own the two R16 units? I know you already have one. However, if you don't already have the 2nd one, I would shelve the idea of adding the 2nd one and just go for a recording interface that can do the whole lot at once. Like a Focusrite 18i20, or a PreSounus 1818VSL.
It's an extra $100 over a 2nd R16, that will save you many headaches and tweaks. Now with that said, you do have to consider how many mic preamps you need at once, etc.
To do a zero new investment solution, I would take a slightly different spin on Gary's great idea above:
1. I would record the whole band as a two track scratch track - keep the takes where there's a great vibe going on. Transfer to DAW.
2. Then use those takes as the cue tracks (hopefully your DAW has latency compensation) for your individual instrument recordings, straight into the DAW using the single R16 as an interface, with 8 available mic preamps and channels to record at once. That's a pretty high channel count. Use one pass for your 6-7 channels for the drums, then you can do another pass with the other folks. Might need a third pass to catch up all of the rest. If they are direct instruments like keys, and usually bass, then you can actually have everyone playing along with the cue track and there's no harm done.
Last edited by rockstar_not; 06/23/14 07:25 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,095
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,095 |
Rockstar_not, I did not understand your setup completely since both the Focusrite 18i20 and Presonus 1818 VSL have the same number of analog inputs (8) as the R-16. The additional inputs are 8 channels of ADAT, 2 channels of S/PDIF so additional input sources would be necessary to benefit using either unit. Also, Stratocaster is not clear whether they will be using any type of DAW. It sounds more like they plan to record direct into the two R-16's.
If that is the case, I suggest they use one R-16 to direct mic the drums and rather than sync the two r-16's - mix the drums and feed this submix through the stereo outs into a stereo channel input of the second unit. They could record 6 inputs live with the drum stereo feed. If all 8 inputs were not needed for the drums, they could use an input from the first r-16 to record the bass and submix it into the stereo feed to the second r-16 while also recording the drums. Once the drums and bass are on the second unit in stereo, the first unit tracks can then be saved and the 8 input could be used with di's to split the background vocals and send a stereo double to the second r-16 and leave six inputs still available for other vocals or instruments. Good mic selection, mic placement and instrument placement would assist with isolating the inputs. Just my thoughts on this. The r-16's really give them all the recording options they should need to record their band. If they really feel the need to record 16 channels at once, their best option would be to rent a Presonus 16.4.2.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Rockstar_not, I did not understand your setup completely since both the Focusrite 18i20 and Presonus 1818 VSL have the same number of analog inputs (8) as the R-16. The additional inputs are 8 channels of ADAT, 2 channels of S/PDIF so additional input sources would be necessary to benefit using either unit. ... If they really feel the need to record 16 channels at once, their best option would be to rent a Presonus 16.4.2. Good catch and good point. The 16.4.2 might be a stretch to learn while renting, however. I've had some time with one at work, and I wouldn't want to have to learn it while paying to learn it! The R16 seems to be a pretty good deal if the mic preamps are fairly quiet. I'm a fan of Zoom gear. I love my Zoom G5, and at church I use a Zoom B3 amp simulator to make my rather pedestrian cheapo bass come to life. -Scott
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,095
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,095 |
I agree Scott. The 16.4.2 would only be necessary if they actually needed 16 channels at once, which is not likely. Stratocasters band appears to be where so many have been with a loud band in a bad room using the limited equipment they have on hand. Ouch!
I like Zoom products too. The pre-amps on the R-16 are plenty quiet enough for most general home recording enthusiasts with the greatest limitations being you have to watch input levels closely for clipping and the faders are quite coarse for mixing. If I recall correctly, the R-16 was also limited to 44.1K 16/24 bit whereas the R8 and R24 both could record at 48k.
Stratocaster could eliminate all of the recording issues by creating his song with BIAB, including vocals and backing vocals then have the band members record and replace the BIAB track with their instruments one at a time. They could include BIAB instruments they don't play and would have a professional sounding demo with no noise or bleed.
Last edited by c_fogle; 06/24/14 07:14 AM.
BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 604
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 604 |
FYI! We already have two R16s, and would like to do some semi-permanent setup. And you're right in assuming that we would use these two R16s as recorder and not include any daw until mix/mastering. The nice thing about using two R16s is that that we don't need to adjust levels over and over, the same instruments always use the same physical inputs! The 2mS delay between the two R16s, doesn't seem to be a big deal! (Wonder, though, why zoom hasn't made a genuine 16 track recorder :-)
Strat
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,632
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,632 |
Your mention of the 2Ms delay made me remember they can indeed be sync'd. I'd forgotten.
The slight delay can be adjusted later in any DAW if it ever becomes a problem.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,587
Posts734,753
Members38,500
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean