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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Hello;
I am looking into purchasing new P.A. speakers and I am looking for advice. I would like speakers with 12” woofers to be used for vocals and BIAB background tracks.
Currently, I have an older pair of Yorkville Pulse PL12’s. 150w. They have served my needs but are in need of repair. I like the fact that they are not too heavy.
Any ideas on what might be a good unpowered replacement? Typically, I’m filling a space not bigger than 50’ x 50’.
Secondary Question:
The PL12’s sound fine (IMHO) for vocals and e.g. acoustic guitar but seem thin when playing recorded music. Even when paired with a sub, the PL12’s sound a bit hollow for pre-recorded music.
I’ve experimented with some newer speakers and the newer speakers seem to have much more midrange. They sound “fuller” when playing recorded music but don’t seem to have as much definition for vocals.
I am wondering if newer speakers are tailored more towards the midrange or if older speakers lose their midrange over time.
Thanks in advance for your ideas.
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Plenty of choices, some just OK, some better, and some excellent. The most salient question would be - what is your budget?
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Up to $1000 for the pair. Not sure that I can justify a Bose system given the amount that I play. Currently, I've been considering the Yorkville NX35. http://www.yorkville.com/loudspeakers/nx/product/nx35/I've been told to save money and buy them used from a music store. Not sure if that is a good idea or not. Thanks for the time.
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Wattage of your power amp at 8 ohms - program and peak?
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First question.... when you say the PL12's sound thin on pre-recorded music .... are you talking about commercial CD's from the major artists or are you talking about YOUR pre-recorded musical tracks? Note: I had never heard of Yorkville until now, and I have been playing music since the 70's. Along the way, I discovered that many of the off brands I encountered were of lesser quality and the sound suffered as a consequence. One band I was in even had a custom sound reinforcement shop build some cabinets for us. What a waste of money that was. They worked OK for mid cabs but not for anything else. When you say they are in need of repair...what does that mean? Bad speakers? Cosmetic repairs? Sometimes it's best to sell them to startup bands strapped for cash and go buy some better gear. Depending on how old the technology in them is, it may well be worth looking into some new self contained and powered speakers. I looked them up and saw some on E-bay..... I'd personally recommend selling and moving on. In a small combo or solo performer situation it's worth the time to make the gear as compact and easy to move as possible. I'm seeing a number of smaller performers using the powered speakers and sub combo. Back in the day it used to be huge speakers, racks of amps, crossovers and then spending lots of time not only setting up gear but even more time to get the crossovers set properly for sub, mids, and highs so that the music didn't sound hollow or out of balance in any way. If I were to get back into playing live now, I would probably opt for something like this>>> http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-eurolive-b215d-active-pa-speaker-system#productDetail This particular speaker system includes everything in one package. Matched amp to the speaker, crossover, and the enclosure. And certainly leaves some money in the $1000 budget you mentioned for other accessories. I see quite a few churches using this kind of speaker (even this particular brand) in their sanctuaries due to the quality of the sound and the self-contained aspect of the speaker. A pair of these matched with a self powered sub should rock any place you are playing and with the sub, you're probably right around that budget number.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 07/20/14 06:34 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I have a 300 watt Fender power amp; I'm guessing that means around 100 watts per side with a peak of 150 per side.
Having said that, we never have to push the amp to fill our venues.
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I find that commercial CDs are the ones that sound thin on these speakers.
I can see the advantages of self-powered speakers but I'm not sure if they are for me. If I understand correctly, I would have to run both power and speaker cables to these bins (as opposed to just speaker cables) and if one dies at a gig you're in more trouble because you can't just flip around an unpowered monitor and use it as a main to get through the night. Yes?
Thanks.
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I have a 300 watt Fender power amp; I'm guessing that means around 100 watts per side with a peak of 150 per side.
Having said that, we never have to push the amp to fill our venues.
300 watts really isn't much juice. Most newer passives are rated higher than 100 watts. Might be time to upgrade the amp. You might also want to check out the Yamaha CM-12V. They are billed as monitors, but they do well as small mains, and have pole mounts. They are rated for 350 watts, but if you don't clip them, you should be OK. If you want a lot of pro advice, you could register and post this question on the PSW site. Those guys are all pro SR guys, and are current on all of the newest gear. http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.phpp.s. I would avoid anything that has "Behringer" on it. 
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I find that commercial CDs are the ones that sound thin on these speakers.
I can see the advantages of self-powered speakers but I'm not sure if they are for me. If I understand correctly, I would have to run both power and speaker cables to these bins (as opposed to just speaker cables) and if one dies at a gig you're in more trouble because you can't just flip around an unpowered monitor and use it as a main to get through the night. Yes?
Thanks.
If the commercial CD's sound thin, I would suspect that the speakers themselves are to blame, or perhaps the EQ settings. I can think of a number of things that could cause that. One immediate thing would be that the home-spun tracks are EQ'd wrong and are bass and mid heavy resulting in properly EQ'd commercial projects to sound weak by comparison. Gear failure on a gig. Been there many times. Had main amps quit, monitors, guitar amps literally burn up, and of course, an exploding flashpot whose concussion wave literally ripped speaker cones from their baskets on the second set of the night. Things can and will happen on a gig. You simply find a way to cope. Run the entire system on one amp (in our case) or turn the monitors toward the audience or turn the PA stack so the band can hear something. We lost half our lights at one club when the roadies plugged into the club's 240v outlet without checking the actual voltage. There was a 208 high leg that was wired by the electrician by mistake. So eliminate the preventable by always checking so you don't lose gear needlessly. I would think you would have 2 speakers for the crowd, and one or more for you on stage. Chances of more than one failing at a time are remote so yup, flip one around and keep going. You can carry spares if you have enough money and space but mostly it's more of a case of, you do what you have to do when you have to do it to get the gig done. Since any and all gear can, and will fail at some time..... just buy the gear that you like, and sounds good and go play. Deal with the bumps in the road when they happen. I have gear now, setting here in my studio that I used...and abused.... for years live gigging that NEVER FAILED and still run perfectly to this day. EDIT TO ADD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDeF4sbhS1M this was found shortly after I posted here..... and went to another music site. This guy says in the first 2 minutes what I spoke about in the first paragraph above.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 07/21/14 06:32 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I have a 300 watt Fender power amp; I'm guessing that means around 100 watts per side with a peak of 150 per side.
Having said that, we never have to push the amp to fill our venues.
300 watts really isn't much juice. Most newer passives are rated higher than 100 watts. Might be time to upgrade the amp. You might also want to check out the Yamaha CM-12V. They are billed as monitors, but they do well as small mains, and have pole mounts. They are rated for 350 watts, but if you don't clip them, you should be OK. If you want a lot of pro advice, you could register and post this question on the PSW site. Those guys are all pro SR guys, and are current on all of the newest gear. http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.phpp.s. I would avoid anything that has "Behringer" on it. I agree with this post nearly 100%. Best to ask your question over at PSW. Is weight a concern at all, transportability, etc.? I've done a boatload of A/V system deliveries from a huge variety of brands - I've seen issues with them all at times, from cold solder joints on speaker leads inside cabinets to improperly attached pole mount pockets, etc. I have to believe that there isn't an affordable PA speaker company that does 100% QC checks these days.
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Jally,
I have been very fortunate over the years with little to no equipment failures, maybe an amp issue or two in more years than I care to remember, or can remember lol. In fact I have been playing so long that most bands I played with back then did not even have a PA system, every musician carried a little amp to each gig instead, even the horn men.
Re: the PA or speaker question, my rule of thumb is always pack a little more power than you think you will need. I know you said Bose is not on your short list, but I am using a Bose LII now and absolutely love it. With that said my second choice are my Mackie 15" powered speakers with a non-powered mixer. I am thinking these are 300 Watts per giving me plenty of clear clean power. In fact I have used them in outdoor park settings with great clear sound. But as stated they are in the attic as I may never use them again because I love the Bose so much.
Best of luck!
Later,
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Thanks for all of the ideas.
I have been reading a lot of the old posts in the PSW site and a lot of the same ideas keep appearing so I think I have a better handle on things.
Thanks for the tips.
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