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#257785 - 07/28/14 08:46 AM [Off-Topic] What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ?
Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 1020
Loc: NYC
Joe V Offline
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Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 1020
Loc: NYC
Has anyone found a cost-effective, improved tracking replacement to the GI-20 ? Thanks.

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#257789 - 07/28/14 10:02 AM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: Joe V]
Registered: 12/27/03
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Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
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I have been looking at the Fishman triple play: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TriplePlayPU/

From what I have read it is very good.
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#257801 - 07/28/14 11:59 AM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 1020
Loc: NYC
Joe V Offline
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Originally Posted By: MarioD
I have been looking at the Fishman triple play: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TriplePlayPU/

From what I have read it is very good.


Amazing how hard it is to keep up with this stuff - that's completely new idea to me. Thanks for suggesting it - it's nice to know what new things are out there.

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#257928 - 07/29/14 07:10 PM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: Joe V]
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7493
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
rockstar_not Offline
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I watched the demo by the Fishman guy on the Sweetwater site. The guy is obviously very talented. However, I can't seem to get away from the fact that it still sounds mostly like guitar voicing and phrasing of synths and it just sounds unnatural to my ear. The technology seems pretty incredible, but it's my opinion that a mid-level keyboard player would make those sound much more fluid than the demonstration. Perhaps it's just poor selection of synth sounds for the demo, I don't know.

Joe, do you find that you can't accomplish midi data entry successfully with a keyboard?

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#257931 - 07/29/14 08:19 PM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: rockstar_not]
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2153
Loc: New Mexico
Larry Kehl Offline
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I bought the TriplePlay a few months ago - it is VERY good! Only two issues I have with it:

1) I will never get use to the need for a PC between me and all my HW synths (I use more HW than SW synths), and

2) my anal retentive mindset that forced me to buy extra (and it does add up) mounting HW to outfit almost every single non-GK equipped guitar with mounts so I can move the Fishman PUP and transmitter to any guitar on a whim.

It tracks well - but not any better (and not any worse) than my GK to MIDI equipment solutions.

Price wise you can get it for around $330 (w/no S&H - you can do your own Google).

I am in process of setting up multiple guitars (Strats, ES-335, SG, LP's, Joe Pass, and a few others) but it works on/with all of them nicely and of course I did not expect any issues either.

Only "complaint" (so far) I really wish they would have made the cabling between PUP and TX (transmitter) longer by about 1 to 1.5 inches. Or better yet used a quick disconnect style connector (hard but not impossible to build) between them THEN you could buy and permanently mount PUPS to the guitars only move the TX around!

Note, be careful do not lose the USB RX (receiver) that's alone is a $70 replacement item.


Rockstar_not

Maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at but , and I've been playing MIDI guitar(s) since '89,

MIDI guitar can only "phrase" and play like another instrument as well as the particular guitar player can imitate and think like a keyboard player, horn player, bow player, reed player, stick & twig user,….

Ditto a keyboard player (wind player, stick & twig user, …) can seldom phrase and make a guitar patch sound like a guitar player, horn player, etc.

Larry


Edited by Larry Kehl (07/29/14 08:22 PM)
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#257934 - 07/29/14 09:45 PM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: Larry Kehl]
Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7493
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
rockstar_not Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 7493
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Originally Posted By: Larry Kehl


Rockstar_not

Maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at but , and I've been playing MIDI guitar(s) since '89,

MIDI guitar can only "phrase" and play like another instrument as well as the particular guitar player can imitate and think like a keyboard player, horn player, bow player, reed player, stick & twig user,….

Ditto a keyboard player (wind player, stick & twig user, …) can seldom phrase and make a guitar patch sound like a guitar player, horn player, etc.

Larry


Larry, I think you nailed it. I don't disagree with you. It's a fairly rare thing to hear a keyboard player properly emulate a sax with a sax patch, etc., without a certain amount of 'weirdness' to the ending sound. However, I think that I've heard more keys patches take advantage of some of the additional controls on keyboards to help the emulation a little farther along with solo instruments. I haven't heard decent midi triggered guitar until about a year ago - there's a product line from Amplesound which to my ear sounds quite good in a mix, triggered via proper phrasing on keys.

But the solo instruments that I've heard triggered from midi guitar to my ear have just slightly less realism - I don't know if it's the fact that there's no damper pedal to sustain notes selectively or what, but it just sounds slightly more unrealistic to my ear.

I could be all wrong about this; I don't feel that I've done a good job explaining myself about what I notice with midi guitar triggered sounds.

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#257935 - 07/29/14 10:22 PM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: rockstar_not]
Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 897
Loc: Homosassa , Florida
GDaddy Offline
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Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 897
Loc: Homosassa , Florida
I still use my Roland GR303 with a GM-70, and I've produced some great hardware based midi induced sounds!

Thank you Pat Metheny, for showing us "the way", back in the 80's...along wth the synth/sampler advancements!!
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Korg...Karma,Triton Classic, PA-80, M-1+
AkaiSampler-S5000, Roland.. X5080 Rack/G-1000 Arranger
Various Guitars/Basses Amps Pedals Rec.Equip.


Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3

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#257949 - 07/30/14 09:00 AM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: rockstar_not]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11612
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11612
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: rockstar_not
Originally Posted By: Larry Kehl


Rockstar_not

Maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at but , and I've been playing MIDI guitar(s) since '89,

MIDI guitar can only "phrase" and play like another instrument as well as the particular guitar player can imitate and think like a keyboard player, horn player, bow player, reed player, stick & twig user,….

Ditto a keyboard player (wind player, stick & twig user, …) can seldom phrase and make a guitar patch sound like a guitar player, horn player, etc.

Larry


Larry, I think you nailed it. I don't disagree with you. It's a fairly rare thing to hear a keyboard player properly emulate a sax with a sax patch, etc., without a certain amount of 'weirdness' to the ending sound. However, I think that I've heard more keys patches take advantage of some of the additional controls on keyboards to help the emulation a little farther along with solo instruments. I haven't heard decent midi triggered guitar until about a year ago - there's a product line from Amplesound which to my ear sounds quite good in a mix, triggered via proper phrasing on keys.

But the solo instruments that I've heard triggered from midi guitar to my ear have just slightly less realism - I don't know if it's the fact that there's no damper pedal to sustain notes selectively or what, but it just sounds slightly more unrealistic to my ear.

I could be all wrong about this; I don't feel that I've done a good job explaining myself about what I notice with midi guitar triggered sounds.


Rockstar_not, YOU just hit the nail right on the head. If a MIDI guitarist does not learn MIDI CCs their leads will be extremely static, i.e. not very realistic. That is the same with any MIDI controller. This is what led me to buy a wind controller. I can input a more realistic horn track much faster with it than I can with my MIDI guitar controller.

If a guitarist, or any instrumentalist, thinks they can just pick up a MIDI controller and play it like their main instrument is in for a big shock. They must learn about and implement CCs to obtain the most realistic emulation.

If you are a guitarist and thinking about a guitar MIDI controller think about the additional time you will need to learn the above and also to think about purchasing a MIDI control foot pedal. You will get a more realistic emulation if you implement CCs while you are playing via a MIDI control foot pedal that to add them later, at least in my experience. This is one BIG advantage keyboard players have over guitarists.

Ps - IMHO this is why RealTracks and RealDrums are a huge success. Everything is done for you when compared with MIDI tracks. You can get excellent MIDI tracks but it takes a lot of work. Those of us who have been around MIDI for a long time can get things done fairly rapidly but with RTs everything is there and it sounds excellennt.
_________________________
Politicians, like diapers, occasionally need to be changed. Usually for the same reason!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#257953 - 07/30/14 10:24 AM [Off-Topic] Re: What new, cost effective technology will replace my Roland GI-20 Guitar MIDI interface ? [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2153
Loc: New Mexico
Larry Kehl Offline
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Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2153
Loc: New Mexico
Fully concur re: CC controllers (yes, my bad - redundant use of word "control") even when playing keyboards that have ribbon controllers, mod wheels, etc. I have/use multiple CC pedals which feed all MIDI synths, via MIDI merge in my MIDI patch bays, including my MIDI guitar signal and even PC MIDI in.



But, the best CC ever invented for a guitar player was ......




(wait for it)




............

















the VOLUME control (or a volume pedal if you can't tweak well with pinky)


Larry
_________________________
Win10Pro64,i78086K,32GB,2TBSSD+20TB HDDs,1080TI,Scarlett18i8,MIDI4x4,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,GR-50,Integra7,XV5080,Fantom-XR,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL20, SO3,MC8,AD2,ST3,Kontakt5,Amptube4,etc.. but I'm really a guitar player;AXE FX III+++

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PG Music News
Notation Enhancements in Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows!

There are Notation Enhancements in the NEW Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows! These include:
•A new button in the Print Options dialog which lets you quickly print a "chords only" fake sheet. You can also access this from the right-click menu on the chord sheet.
•A new track type (Drums) is now available for The Melody and Soloist tracks.
•Clicking close to a stave line will put a note on the stave line instead of between stave lines. (Previously, you had to click extremely close to a stave line to insert a note on The line.)
•Double-clicking on the Standard mode Notation window (or on the time line in Editable or Staff Roll mode) plays the song from the current time location. Previously, it played the song from the beginning of the current bar.
•Holding down the [Ctrl] key and pressing the zoom in/out buttons results in finest possible incremental adjustment in size.
•In The Notation Windows Options dialog, The clefs split point asterisk indicates that C5* is middle C.
•Pressing The space bar plays the song from the current time location, not the current bar.
•The clefs split point can be set by the spin controls.
•The right-click menu in the Editable or Staff Roll mode Notation window has an option to change the current beat resolution. Previously, the only way to do this was to right-click on the time line.
•There's a keystroke entry notation mode - the 'N' mode, which lets you enter a melody entirely using keystrokes. The keystrokes are N to enter a note, up/down cursor to change its pitch, and left/right cursor to move the time line.
•You can now edit any track in the Event List Editor. When The dialog opens, it will show you the MIDI data in the current Notation track.
•You can quickly enter forced accidentals from the right-click menu.

We talk about these new features within our Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows®! New Features, RealTracks, and other content! video:
25:45 - New Features: Easy Entering of Notation with the 'N' Key
36:48 - Change Beat Resolution From the Right-Click Menu
37:15 - Easier Entry of Notes on Lines
37:42 - Asterisk to Indicate Middle C on & Spin Controls
37:53 - Force Accidental from the Right-Click Menu
38:01 - Edit Any Track in the Event List
38:09 - Keystroke Note Entry Mode 'N' for Faster Note Entry
38:28 - Print Chords Only Fake Sheet
38:32 - More Control of Notation Size

Rather read about it?
-Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows® Upgrade Manual
-New Feature Summary - Notation Enhancements

The New Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows SongPicker!

With Band-in-a-Box® 2019, the SongPicker has been redesigned!
-The completely redesigned window shows information for up to 50,000 songs.
-The song list build is much faster. Approximately 150 songs get added per second.
-A progress bar will appear if the song list build takes longer than 3 seconds.
-You can see the chord progression for the selected song in the list. You can copy and paste it to a text file.
-Many filters are available. You can filter the list by subfolders, genre, feel, time signature, style, songs with melody, soloist, lyrics, key signature, tempo range, and the year of file dates.
-You can search songs that have similar chord progressions and/or melody fragments.
-Hotkey! ss+enter opens the SongPicker, ss2+enter opens the Recently Played Songs, etc.

Learn more about the updates with our New Features Video - we've made it easy to find the section you'll need:
2:55 - New Feature: Redesigned SongPicker
21:58 - New Features: SongPicker Enhancements
41:10 - Now Over 10,600 Titles in SongPicker

You can also read all about the new SongPicker within our Online Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows® Upgrade Manual.

RealBand 2019 Online and PDF Manuals Available!

Visit our Online Manuals support page for access to the latest RealBand 2019 for Windows program manuals!

RealBand 2019 for Windows User's Guide: Online Manual | PDF Download
RealBand 2019 for Windows New Features Guide: Online Manual | PDF Download

RealBand 2019 is included in every purchase of Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows! We're having a SALE on Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Upgrade purchases until December 31, 2018 - save over 40% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Upgrade! Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Online and PDF Manuals Available!

Visit our Online Manuals support page for access to the latest Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows program manuals!

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows User's Guide: Online Manual | PDF Download
Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Upgrade Manual: Online Manual | PDF Download

Don't forget.... We're having a SALE on Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Upgrade purchases until December 31, 2018 - save over 40% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Upgrade! Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 on a USB 3.0 Hard Drive - Speed Thrills!

We're excited to say that all Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows UltraPAK and UltraPAK+ orders now ship on a USB 3.0 hard drive!

What does this mean? Faster hard drive transfer rates will enhance the program operations (faster time to generate tracks, reduced audio artifacts) and offer faster transfer speeds (typically up to 3x faster)!

It's a great time to order your UltraPAK or UltraPAK+ Upgrade... they're ON SALE until December 31st!

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows® New Features!

Our "Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows®! New Features, RealTracks, and other content!" video is now ready! Get to know all about the newest features in Band-in-a-Box® 2019: Click here to watch...

We have listed a table of contents for this video, you'll see it within the YouTube video description, or by visiting this forum post.

RealBand 2019 - A New Look!

Have you opened up your RealBand 2019 yet? You may notice that we've given it a fresh new look! In fact, there are now 3 different looks to RealBand.

See for yourself! Within the program, visit Options | Icon Set and choose from: Classic, Modern 1, or Modern 2.

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