Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 662
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 662 |
Now that I have the KRK VXT 6 monitors, any suggestions on isolation? Mopads, Pink Pearl erasures, or any other items that might work for the DIY kinda thing. Monitors are 28lbs. a piece. Thanks
Critter
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Are you having an issue with them vibrating items on the surface they are sitting on? If not, the isolation pads are a bit of hype that from a physics point of view can't really offer much difference.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 662
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 662 |
I am going by what I have heard and seen on youtube, how the isolation cleans up frequencies mostly on the lower end. No vibrations, I don't crank them up loud enough for that, lol.
Critter
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Believe what you wish to believe. They physics don't necessarily play out. Several physics items are possibly at play: 1. Isolation pads COULD isolate speaker cabinet vibration from being transferred into the surface that they are sitting on, which could then in turn vibrate itself and create unwanted low end sound which would compete with that coming from the monitor speaker itself. Unless you have some flimsy panels on the desk somewhere, the likelihood of this is rather small, particularly if you are listening at low levels. 2. The isolation pads CAN make the monitors less efficient when the monitor itself is not fixed well to 'ground', in that when the woofer cone pushes against the air, it doesn't have the benefit of a solid connection, rather a more springy connection to 'ground' to push against except it's own mass, not it's mass and the mass of the earth. This is why you see the exact opposite of monitor isolation pads being sold in the hi-fi speaker market - metal inverted spikes designed to be placed under hi-fi speakers and 'pierce' through carpeting and pad down to a more solid foundation. I'm talking about items like this: http://www.oregondv.com/spikes.htmHowever, with the weight of each of your speakers, which you said was 28 pounds each, there's likely enough mass there to not notice a big issue with low end punch if you did mount them on iso-pads. You will likely have more of an issue with room acoustic cavity modes getting excited by your monitors, as well as comb-filtering that could result from having the speakers too close to reflecting surfaces. The first issue is primarily caused by the geometry of the room, and where you place your monitors relative to the geometry of the room and the rooms natural frequencies. This article: http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html would be a great place to start to try to get an understanding of what the cavity resonances, also known as standing waves, are and why you should be concerned about them - Spend more effort working this out, than worrying about isolation pads. It's a much bigger issue than whether your monitors are on iso-pads or not, because it doesn't matter at what volumes you are listening, the standing waves in the room WILL get activated at nearly any playback level and will deceive you at your listening position. Pay particular attention to Figure 11 and the discussion around it - highly important stuff there. Also down near the bottom of the article, maybe 3/4 down is a discussion of a tool for free download called ModeCalc - this will take the dimensions of your room and show you specific frequencies that are likely to be issues in your room, where you place monitors, etc. The physics are pretty simple, and this tool will yield quite accurate results unless your room has non-parallel walls, many large items breaking up the geometry of the room like bar-counters, big furniture, etc. Also pay attention to the side-bar in the article about creating a reflection free zone. The advice in that section is quite good, and it's going to help you avoid comb-filtering. Key advice in that section for most home studio design is adding absorption to surfaces that could reflect mid and high frequencies from the monitors to the listening position. One trick not mentioned in that article is that you can do this by putting the absorption on any wall (and ceiling) where if a mirror was placed in the same position, you can see the monitors in the reflection of the mirror. This is ray-trace acoustics and spending the little bit of money that you would on monitor iso pads, on absorbing material like rigid fiberglass insulation, is going to be much better spent for most home studios which are often bedroom spaces, with rather narrow wall dimensions. I'm a bit lucky in my studio, I have 2' from my monitors to the wall behind the monitors, and 4' to each of the side walls - where the reflections off of those surfaces back to the listening position is significantly longer than the direct path from the speakers to my listening position. That article is probably the most concise and honest article on home listening room and home studio acoustics that you can find. While the author has a company that sells acoustic treatment (RealTraps), he also offers up a host of practical and rather inexpensive acoustic treatments in this article that can be purchased mostly at home improvement stores and installed with a little bit of effort. You just bought some nice monitors - make sure they play nice in your space. Iso-pads would be very low on the list, if at all, for getting the most out of your monitors. Most of the endorsees of these iso-pad type products have already gone through the rigor of having a treated space or had a ground-up purpose designed control/listening room built where many of the common issues of home studios can be avoided altogether.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301 |
I don't use Iso-pads.
I tried some firm foam and didn't hear any difference. I would only use a pad or something IF.... IF there were buzzes from the speakers setting on something....and then it would likely be a simple piece of cloth to dampen the rattles and buzzes.
I've heard both sides to the story and in reality, for the normal home studio, there's not enough of a difference to matter. Some folks swear by heavy mass such as concrete pillars so that the inertia of the speakers is NOT transferred into the stands as easily. That is the entire hypothesis for using the iso-pads. You only want the speakers and the box they are in creating the vibrations.
As I said, in my studio, and at the volume I work, the isolation did nothing for me that I could hear. So, IMHO, I wouldn't waste the time or money.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609 |
GuitarHacker gives good info. To expand on this though .. I have found that putting sound treatments on the wall behind me (where the speakers are pointed at) DID make a noticeable difference. Less 'room' and less standing bass. Cleaner. YMMV You need to experiment in your own unique room.
That said, when I mounted my speakers on the wall I did include pads between the speaker and the mount. Couldn't hurt.
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,301 |
Yes.... good point.
Room treatment..... or should I say PROPER room treatment will make a difference.
I have a room with acoustic ceiling tile, carpet on the floor, and various pieces of furniture and other things to break up the standing waves a bit. In other words, not just an empty square room. The walls are mostly bare, but there are also 2 open doorways on the opposite wall from the speakers......AND..... I have ARC.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Critter, did you read the Ethan Winer article link that I put in my post above?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,739
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,739 |
I have my monitors on Wall mounted Swivel stands, if you go that way you will need a good sturdy pair like these: http://www.andertons.co.uk/studio-furniture/pid25855/cid737/stage-line-past550sw-swivel-tilt-speaker-bracket.aspI think they cure the isolation problem, and they also allow you to direct the sound to your ears. I mounted mine high up at first, but now they are at ear hieght so I can catch that sweetspot. If you need to you can use rubber, similar to a mouse matt, to further isolate them. Here there is no need Z
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 108
Apprentice
|
Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 108 |
Three to five feet ahead and apart...at a slight v angle
Level to your ears
That's how my krks are setup and it works fine for me...
Also my pads are 2 padded stools I bought at Walmart they are exactly even height, sturdy and 9 dollars apiece.... (Silly stands for them are like close to 180 apiece what a waste of money!!!!
Last edited by bostonx; 08/04/14 03:42 PM.
Biab 2019 ultra pack Dell laptop I7 running windows 2010 Midi keyboard Roland BR600 8 track recorder Sonar X3 producer flstudio 20
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,921
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,921 |
BX,
Nice hack. I paid over $100 for a pair of 40" RTA stands. For those on a budget—IKEA rules!
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,609 |
I went a step or two up from the mounts you linked, and still added the mat you describe. I may have called it foam in my previous post, but they came with a sound 'mat' material about 1/8" thick .. so I used it. Like I said; can't hurt.
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
You guys don't experience any issue with coupling the speaker vibration directly to the wall the mounts are screwed into?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 662
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 662 |
My wife brought home two different types of foam from work, I cut them to fit the monitors, harder foam on the bottom, softer foam on top, each half inch thick, holy crap what a difference, no more booming bass and everything else is great. This changed everything, and for free.......
Critter
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Then you had an issue with the surface the monitors were sitting on getting activated/vibrated by the monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 662
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 662 |
Yep, wood workbench converted to this, particle board top, etc. So far so good.............
Critter
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Happy Easter! Holiday Hours...
2024 is well underway - it's already Easter Weekend!
Our Customer Service hours this weekend are:
Friday, March 29: 8-4
Saturday, March 30: 8-4
Sunday, March 31: closed
Regular hours resume Monday, April 1st - no joke!
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®
Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®
Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!
We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!
Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.
You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.
See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.
Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,399
Posts732,551
Members38,442
|
Most Online2,537 Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|