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#258961 - 08/09/14 09:09 AM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 3371
Loc: Florida
tommyad Offline
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Registered: 05/22/11
Posts: 3371
Loc: Florida
I want jump in and say thanks to everyone for commenting on my part of this. I appreciate the kind words. And of course a big big thanks to Bud and Janice for including me in this wonderful project. Keep on breaking them rules so we can make our own. Tom

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#259009 - 08/09/14 06:54 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 1718
Loc: New Zealand
RichMac Offline
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Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 1718
Loc: New Zealand
Really enjoyed it all! Nice bluesy vocal but not exaggerated, the arrangement builds smoothly and the lyrics kept me guessing. Adventurous. Cheers.
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#259011 - 08/09/14 08:51 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: RichMac]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 14801
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 14801
Loc: Hamlin NY
This is great and you all should be very proud of it!

I really like the way the song builds and of course those vocals and guitar parts were top notch!

This is a keeper!
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#259019 - 08/09/14 09:54 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: RnAM]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9799
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9799
Loc: GA USA
Originally Posted By: c_fogle
Janice & Bud's "Garden Party". Great way to showcase Janice's versatility and a great example of collaboration. I enjoyed this and think it is very creative.

Regards,

Charlie


Thank you Charlie. We both love that Rick Nelson song. Amazingly I haven't thought of it. Thanks!

Originally Posted By: dani48
Hi, Bud & Janice, Tom & Floyd !!!:))


Wonderful collab to achieve a masterpiece !
...and Janice´s vocal combined with Tom´s
lead guitar ........Wowowowowowowowowowo !!!:))

This is a masterpiece..............


Cheers
Dani


You are way too kind my friend. We appreciate it!


Originally Posted By: R & AM
Hi Janice and Bud,

Great idea to do it this way, telling a story.
We like it very much especially the part where the bass, drums and guitar come in.

Regards,
R & AM


Glad you liked it and the bass, drum, guitar transition. I struggled with it and hoped it wouldn't seem gimmicky. Thanks!

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#259020 - 08/09/14 09:56 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16926
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16926
Loc: Australia
Hi Janice and Bud,

Now that was worth the listen! Janice's silky vocals, Tommy's V8 guitar work and Bud's ability to wield the musical scalpel and cut and stitch RTs with the precision of a consultant surgeon - what a team!

I have to say, I was captivated by the above interchange regarding lyrics. Most interesting. I thought I'd jump in and share my perspective ...

For what it's worth, "pocket / ticket" is a legitimate type of rhyme. It's what Berklee College refer to as a consonant rhyme (that is, the "-ket" sound where both the "k" and the "t" are consonants common to both words; that's a clever one, Bud, because many consonance rhymes only use a single consonant and not two).

Below is a link to a song written by Gary Burr and sung by Tim McGraw that uses the "n" consonant rhyme (as the only rhyme) in the first and third A-section with "one / gone" and then in the reprise of the third A-section with "undone / gone". Because consonance is the weakest type of rhyme, its use leaves a feeling of lack of resolution. This is perfect for enhancing mood and emotion. Gary Burr uses consonance very effectively in the below song to reflect the dawning sense of loss that the song's character is experiencing.



Steve Seskin and Allen Shamblin also use a really unusual rhyme in "Don't Laugh at Me". In the chorus, they rhyme "wings" with "me" in the spotlight position of the last line. The pronounced lack of resolution that this rhyme creates, amplifies the song's emotion and boosts meaning greatly. I believe that this song made it to number one a couple of times (Peter, Paul and Mary; Mark Wills). Below is a link to Mark Wills' version.



Steve Sekin is also a great user of weak syllable rhymes. (I notice that Bud's and Janice's use of "bigger / dreamer", "down / woman", are consonant rhymes that involve at least one weak syllable and "quickly / honestly" is a perfect rhyme that involves weak syllables.) In the first two lines of "Grown Men Don't Cry", Steve Seskin and Tom Douglas use the weak-syllable, consonant "er" sound and rhyme "center" with "mother". To my ears this rhyme really establishes the emotional context for the whole lyric that follows. It's a lyric writing master-stroke. I believe that this song also became a number one hit.



My view is that it's only by playing around and developing a feel for these unusual lyric rhyme-types, and how they impact on lyric motion and emotion, that one gains an understanding of how to use them effectively. With my own lyrics, I often try a number of different types of rhyme and try to gauge how they "feel" in relation to the emotions I'm trying to convey. (I'm still a novice but I have lots of fun playing around.)

Quote:
For example ...

[ORIGINAL]
Mary had a little lamb,
It's fleece was white as snow
And everywhere that Mary went
The lamb was sure to go


Let's try the last line using a weak syllable rhyme ...

Mary had a little lamb,
It's fleece was white as snow
And everywhere that Mary went
The lamb was sure to follow

While the weak syllable rhyme still works, there's less of a sense of closure.


What about a consonant rhyme ...

Mary had a little lamb,
It's fleece was white as frost
And everywhere that Mary went
The lamb was like a ghost

When I read through the above, the consonant rhyme provides a sonic relationship but it leaves me dangling waiting for more.


Maybe weak syllable perfect rhyme ...

Mary had a little lamb,
It's fleece was white as winter
And everywhere that Mary went
The lamb was sure to wander

Again, there's a sonic relationship between "winter / wander" but, as a far as lyric movement goes, it leaves me expecting more.

et cetera ...



Overall, any rhyme type that doesn't offer the full sense of closure found with perfect rhymes leaves a listener in a disquieted state of mind. The degree of disquietedness depends on the rhyme type. The net result of this uneasiness of mind is that it adds to a lyric's emotional impact.

I find lyric movement, and how it can be used strategically to impact directly on the feelings of a listener, a really fascinating subject. I hope that the above thoughts offer another perspective on lyric writing and how it's possible to use non-standard types of rhyme to enhance the emotional power of lyrics.

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
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#259034 - 08/10/14 05:00 AM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 3108
Loc: York, England
ROG Offline
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Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 3108
Loc: York, England
Hi there Janice & Bud.

Well, it works for me.

I mean, what's not to like here? Great story, great performances from everyone, a very clever production and an excellent mix. For myself, I don't like to analyse things in too much detail, though I'm always fascinated by Noel's comments. I prefer to just listen to the flow of the track and I thought this one was great.

A brave project and a resounding success.

ROG.

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#259039 - 08/10/14 06:18 AM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 2426
Loc: Warwickshire, UK
Skyline Offline
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Registered: 02/11/03
Posts: 2426
Loc: Warwickshire, UK
A super song, top drawer performances all round and a sparkling mix. Well done to all concerned!

(An adage I have followed: "Rules are made for the guidance of the wise and the obedience of fools.")
wink
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#259052 - 08/10/14 10:50 AM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8930
Loc: Florida
floyd jane Offline
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Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 8930
Loc: Florida
Bud/Janice/Tom..

This is a super cool project. A very clever idea (sort of right there in front of you, eh?). One of things that most impressed me was the rhyming scheme. It takes a LOT of work (thinking) to be able to write a song rhymed on 1 & 3 AND 2 & 4. Particularly one involving this many words. I think it's pretty neat that Noel jumped into that aspect and cited 3 of my all-time favorite writers...

Super cool idea to have the band followed the progression of the singer...

Great mix. Gorgeous vocal (of course). Delightful guitar work.

All around impressive.

Can't wait to see what's next!

floyd

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#259074 - 08/10/14 03:12 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: gruverider]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9799
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9799
Loc: GA USA
Originally Posted By: Greg Johnson
Hi guys. Very cool and interesting work!! It certainly was an ambitious project and I was very tickled by the sheer creativity. As always, I'm a sucker for Tom's sweet guitar sound! Maybe the song is less universal than some, but for people who have followed this musical evolution with great interest (and I certainly am one), it was a wonderful treat. As always, Great work!! Take care. Greg


Thanks a lot Greg -- yep, it's been fun watching it unroll!

Originally Posted By: gruverider
Wow! the mix is awesome!

Janice's voice stands out and yet all of the instruments are present and accounted for.

It sounds really good. The transition to the blues part sounds very smooth now. It sounds like you did a lot of work to get it all to hold together and it does

Well done!


Thanks man, most of the time mixing I felt like I had a handful of worms trying to escape. I think I got them sorta corralled!

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#259138 - 08/11/14 09:16 AM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16926
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 16926
Loc: Australia
Hi again, Janice and Bud.

I hope you don't mind me popping back in. I'm excited and wanted to share a discovery I've just made.

Tonight, while driving around through Youtube, I came across Michael Bublé sing “Softly as I Leave You”. It's such a great song (and one I haven't heard for a couple of decades). I was pleased when I discovered this clip because this song shows the emotional power of using a minimum amount of rhyme in non-conventional ways.

I particularly like how the last line of the song, 'So softly as I leave you there', seems to dangle without any obvious rhyme. To my ears, this lack of resolution makes this last phrase the single most emotionally charged phrase in the entire song; very powerful. (Looking at the lyrics, there is a potential sonic link between "bear" and "there" but I didn't hear that when read through the words nor when I played the song. It would be interesting to know if others hear it.)

  • Prior to playing the below link, it's well worth reading the lyrics aloud.
  • By doing this, it's possible to feel how the length of phrases and the unusual rhyme scheme work in partnership to present a journey of words that does not need music to create an emotional experience. (Putting an accompaniment to these words is simply the icing on the proverbial cake.)




Quote:
SOFTLY AS I LEAVE YOU
Giorgio Calabrese and Tony De Vita
(translated into English by Hal Shaper)

Softly
I will leave you softly
For my heart would break
If you should wake and see me go

So I leave you softly
Long before you miss me
Long before your arms beg me to stay
For one more hour
Or one more day

After all the years
I can't bear the tears to fall
So softly as I leave you there

[Instrumental]

Softly
Long before you kiss me
Long before your arms can beg me stay
For one more hour
Or one more day

After all the years
I can't bear the tears to fall
So, softly as I leave you there
As I leave I you there
As I leave I you there

_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#259157 - 08/11/14 12:57 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 1944
Loc: Canyon Lake, TX
Steve Young Offline
Expert

Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 1944
Loc: Canyon Lake, TX
Janice and Bud,

I don't really care about the what the rules are, but I really like this one! smile As always, Janice, your vocals just shine! Is there anything you can't sing? smile

Keep up the good work!

Steve
_________________________
Steve Young
Music
"In order to compose, all you need to do is remember a tune that nobody else has thought of." - Robert Schumann

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#259190 - 08/11/14 05:51 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 2050
F.M.M. Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 2050
hi Janice and bud I like this a lot I don't follow rules most of the time however this is a great listen I think Janice could sing anything great guitar chops to tommy great mix thanks for sharing eric
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#259265 - 08/12/14 09:30 AM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: Skyline]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9799
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
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Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9799
Loc: GA USA
Originally Posted By: RichMac
Really enjoyed it all! Nice bluesy vocal but not exaggerated, the arrangement builds smoothly and the lyrics kept me guessing. Adventurous. Cheers.


We appreciate that! Delighted that you felt it flowed well.

Originally Posted By: MarioD
This is great and you all should be very proud of it!
I really like the way the song builds and of course those vocals and guitar parts were top notch!
This is a keeper!


Yeah man, Tom and Janice work together well for sure. Please it worked for you. Thanks!

------------

Noel, We deeply appreciate the time that you spent for both of your posts. I feel a sense of relief that perhaps stepping off the "song structure deep end" actually resulted in something positive. Your song examples and discussion of them are a genuine clinic in the subject and I have learned a lot from listening to them several times and putting the song in the context of your explanation. The "Mary" lyric you used was a great illustration. Thank you so much!!



Originally Posted By: ROG
Hi there Janice & Bud.

Well, it works for me.

I mean, what's not to like here? Great story, great performances from everyone, a very clever production and an excellent mix. For myself, I don't like to analyse things in too much detail, though I'm always fascinated by Noel's comments. I prefer to just listen to the flow of the track and I thought this one was great.

A brave project and a resounding success.

ROG.


ROG, that means a heckuva a lot to us and we appreciate it. From the beginning we realized that if we couldn't get the flow right the song would never work. Having you mention that the flow worked is just great! Thanks.

Originally Posted By: Skyline
A super song, top drawer performances all round and a sparkling mix. Well done to all concerned!

(An adage I have followed: "Rules are made for the guidance of the wise and the obedience of fools.")
wink



Thanks and the adage is priceless! Similarly I've followed "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds" It took me a LONG time to learn that.

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#259287 - 08/12/14 03:27 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: F.M.M.]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9799
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9799
Loc: GA USA
Originally Posted By: floyd jane
Bud/Janice/Tom..

This is a super cool project. A very clever idea (sort of right there in front of you, eh?). One of things that most impressed me was the rhyming scheme. It takes a LOT of work (thinking) to be able to write a song rhymed on 1 & 3 AND 2 & 4. Particularly one involving this many words. I think it's pretty neat that Noel jumped into that aspect and cited 3 of my all-time favorite writers...

Super cool idea to have the band followed the progression of the singer...

Great mix. Gorgeous vocal (of course). Delightful guitar work.

All around impressive.

Can't wait to see what's next!

floyd


Thanks floyd. Appreciate the props re the rhyme scheme. It did tax me. And about
what's next? I'll go ahead and say " a big surprise!"


Originally Posted By: Steve Young
Janice and Bud,

I don't really care about the what the rules are, but I really like this one! smile As always, Janice, your vocals just shine! Is there anything you can't sing? smile

Keep up the good work!

Steve


Thank you Steve. Well, I'm biased....but there is little she can't sing well so long as she likes it and can inject some soul into it.

Bud


Originally Posted By: F.M.M.
hi Janice and bud I like this a lot I don't follow rules most of the time however this is a great listen I think Janice could sing anything great guitar chops to tommy great mix thanks for sharing eric


Thanks Eric!!

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#259549 - 08/14/14 10:43 PM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: Janice & Bud]
Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4623
Sundance Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4623
Sweet vocal and mix with some cool axe man icing.


Josie

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#259668 - 08/16/14 06:54 AM [User Showcase] Re: The Blues Woman (Tommy on his axe!) [Re: Sundance]
Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9799
Loc: GA USA
Janice & Bud Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 9799
Loc: GA USA
Originally Posted By: Sundance
Sweet vocal and mix with some cool axe man icing.


Josie


Thanks Josie! Icing for sure....

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