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Hi BIAB'ers- Here's a song I wrote several years back, with a vocal by Lisa on a four track cassette player and recently revived with new BIAB backing real tracks, that better fit the style of the song. I recorded the cassette tracks into Digital Performer 8 with the vocal on a separate track, then matched the tempo and key and groove to create an new backing arrangement. I used the COLDRO Even 8ths real tracks style and added 1701 Brent Mason for guitar solos. COLODRO has 684 Bass by Frank Tobin; 848 el. rythym by Audley Freed; 1726 piano by John Jarvis; and real drums Nashville even 8ths by Brian Fullen. I synced the timing of the vocal to the drum track and used a variety plug in inserts eq,reverb, compression, on the vocal and master mix. I also did a little pitch tuning on the vocal. I'd love to here what you think of the song and the production. thanks ---Pete here it is - http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=13078156&q=hi&newref=1
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Peter
Interesting arrangement of a 12-Bar. Perhaps lift the vocals and/or spend a bit more time with mixing levels. I think could further improve the song.
Thanks for sharing
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Peter, Peter
Interesting arrangement of a 12-Bar. Perhaps lift the vocals and/or spend a bit more time with mixing levels. I think could further improve the song.
Thanks for sharing
A good way to start the day enjoyed Alyn
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As above.
Thank you for posting.
Good effort.
Rob.
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A good song with a good vocal performance and good instrumental arrangement but the vocal and instruments from two different sound sources of unequal quality clash. You have done a good job with blending the two sources and a bit of tweaking can make it a more than passable production if that is your goal. At this point in your mix, the vocal mix is a bit muddy as well a sounding over processed with effects. Here on the forum, we don't know the true quality of the cassette vocals that you started with. Were the vocals printed effects from the original recording? Had age effected the overall quality and much of the high end lost? Was the original cassette recording recorded at the highest fidelity or at a lower fidelity? There are many variables that will affect the quality and blend of your final project but from where you are with it at this point, my thought is that you can continue to work with what you have and improve it somewhat but there's a limit to how good a result you will be able to achieve. According to your goal, will it be worth the time and effort?
It is a good song and arrangement and I would likely cut to the chase and record a new vocal track.
Charlie
Last edited by c_fogle; 03/26/15 03:19 AM.
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Pete,
Nice job of taking an old vocal and adapting it to RealTracks.
I like how you developed the "hot" theme as you went along and got "really hot" in the 3rd verse - that was clever...
I assume you have the vocal as a separate track on the original cassette tape? (and, therefore a separate track in a DAW?). If so, there are a couple of spots where you could line it up a little more...The 1st verse is pretty much in the pocket. The 2nd verse - especially the first half of it - is slightly ahead of the music - so it sounds like your singer is rushing (and I know it is VERY hard to get a vocal from another source lined up). It seems to get back on track about the last line of that verse. There are actually a few small incidental words you could cut to make sliding pieces around a bit easier - for example... the mailman line - you could cut the "he".. the phone ringing line the "I don't" could have the "I" cut...little bits like that... (again, I know it is tedious to cut and slide...)
Your drums sounds great. The opening guitar (and the other solos) are very nicely done! The piano is a bit busy to have it throughout the entire song (my opinion, of course). It is great for the song later on! In your first verse, I think it would work better to have the backing be a bit more subtle - to match your singer's tone - she starts out ""softer". Perhaps pull the piano out of the 1st verse and use another guitar in it's place - a muted sync electric works well for those kinds of builds... and then let the piano loose later as the song build (to a feverish pitch!) - and bring its volume up a bit to really stand as a "rock piano" - loud and proud...
All just suggestions. I think you have done a heck of a job reviving a cassette vocal - and demonstrated how BIAB can be used for doing that...
floyd
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Hi Pete,
as mentioned above this is a nice job of taking an old vocal and adapting it to RealTracks.
I would consider the advice given.
Thanks for posting.
Guenter
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I'm going to reply to all the GREAT POSTS I have received on my song in this reply. VIDEO TRACK - Lifting the vocals seems to be the consensus of opinions - and I know that more extensive mixing of the backing track levels will improve the song overall. That's on my to do list. GIBSON - I'm glad you enjoyed the song despite some of the technical shortcomings. I'm basically a song writer and the whole point for me is to engage and entertain the listener, I had a lot of fun writing this. Rob4580- Thanks for taking the time to listen and post. Without the response of people like you who just enjoy music what would be the point of all the technical work. C fogel - Thanks for the detailed review. The original was recorded in the late 80's to early 90's on the lowest end Vestafire cassette recorder and a medium quality condenser mic. So yes whatever high end was there originally has been degraded over time. I recently bought a use Tascam mkII ministudio cassette deck to access these early recordings of my musical journey. The extensive use of effects was an effort to mitigate the high end loss. My goal was to- 1. Create the best representation of the song I could as a personal record and 2. Present a version of the song that might interest an artist to take it on from here. Floyd jane - Thanks for letting me have the use of your acute ear on the musical detail. I haven't posted on the forum here in a while and as very impressed with the level of critiques I have received. We have great tools now to produce music, but unless you know what you are listening for, the results will disappoint. I did have the singer push the beat in the 2nd verse. It seemed to fit the singer's motivation to push her boyfriend for attention. I did however want the Johnny-on-the-spot line to be on the "spot". You're right it is difficult to align the tracks and I was using "beats" that DP found in the vocal track to align with the conductor track which was synced to the drum track.. It was a lot of "ear" work and at times "ear fatigue" sets in. Also trying to get the "IS HOT" to align with the cymbal crash. I can edit the vocal in the waveform editor of DP as you suggested - I had thought about it, but need to learn how to use this editor better. The whole project has taught me alot and I have better learned how to use the powerful tools I have at my fingertips. Not sure I want to bring another instrument into the mix but will consider and appreciate your notes on the piano track. Boehm - great thanks for the listen and post! I can appreciate you got on the thread after the song had been extensively reviewed. I'm glad you didn't task me with more work to do! 
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Sounds good to me. Intresting that you were able to pull this off, seems like a dauting task. It all seems to work well together, well done.
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I've thought for a long time about doing
this with some old tapes but I fear I'm way
too lazy. I know it's hard.
Floyd makes some great points and BTW he
revived an old tape tune a while back
called Diamonds that really worked. It's
worth searching to find here on the site.
This is a cool use of RT's and thanks for
posting.
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Hello Pete,
I like the musical arrangement on this, but as for the vocals I tend to agree with Charlie: they sound kind of muddy.
I have some experience of my own with digitally redoing old four tracks recordings. It's probably best to record the vocals again.
Regards,
Rob
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Yeah... Floyd nailed it.
The vox sounds overly compressed... in a few places you can hear the plosives and distortion.
Of course, knowing that cassette tape degrades just setting on the shelf, and not knowing what you had to begin with....it's hard to say exactly what the source of the problem is. Perhaps the tape track was overly compressed to start with. If it was, short of recording the vocal track again, you don't have a lot of options. If it's a clean track....read on...
You said you used compression on the vocal track.... well... go back and remove that. EQ it a bit brighter and crisper sounding.... cut the mids and lows since most females don't have a huge mid/low range anyway. Then push the level up a bit on the volume fader. When I use a compressor on a track it is generally a very light compression. Listen to the song on my soundclick site called Come & Go (Rose version).... try to get your vocal track to set in the mix like that one. I rarely use a compressor in a track for any reason. My compressor tends to be in the master buss and on the entire mix as a whole and very lightly applied. You just want to knock the highest peaks back a bit.
Lots of folks use a compressor to try to gain volume to bring a vocal track up in the mix. That's the WRONG way to do it. If you have a vocal that's struggling to be heard in the overall mix, and you have it's level fader to 0dB or higher..... DO NOT USE A COMPRESSOR to try to get it up to level..... take the opposite approach.... turn everything else down until the vocal sets nicely in the mix. You can always get the final mix up to volume but get the mix RIGHT first.... and if that involves turning everything down and starting again..... then that's what you need to do.
The song overall is good.... work on the 2 issues.... get the timing synced properly and get the vocal tweeked with EQ and levels and remove the compression. Then repost it.
Edit: if the track is bad to start with, remember, we have a few ladies here who would likely be willing to sing this for you.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 03/27/15 02:11 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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As the old saying goes easy when you know how, it's getting to that point that's the hard thing. 
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Pete,
From your response earlier, it seems you are doing your editing on a hardware DAW? (the DP). Have you tried a software DAW? Editing tracks for something like this is WAY easier in a software DAW. You owe it to yourself to try one out (if you have not). You can try Reaper for 60 days (I believe). I think there may be a free version of Studio One and one for $20... they would get you started (I may have misinterpreted your earlier statement)...
fj
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I have a lot of tapes from what I'll call the woodshed period of my songwriting journey. All different genres and qualities - there are a few I'm going to work to digitize - the rest will be in a box.
As to the BIAB part - you have to find or build a style that has a matching groove or feel - that's mainly in the bass and drum tracks, it's pretty easy to match the tempo but without the right groove it still won't sound right.
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I'm open to having the vocal track redone - the lyrics are the soundclick player I think if you press more info? Anyway they are there somewhere, the music is a twelve bar - 3 chord progression - I think this is in the key of B - all the backing tracks are listed - and I don't mind anyone who likes the song recording it
- I'd just like to be credited . Thanks Rob
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Pete,
From your response earlier, it seems you are doing your editing on a hardware DAW? (the DP). Have you tried a software DAW? Editing tracks for something like this is WAY easier in a software DAW. You owe it to yourself to try one out (if you have not). You can try Reaper for 60 days (I believe). I think there may be a free version of Studio One and one for $20... they would get you started (I may have misinterpreted your earlier statement)...
fj Hi Floyd , Yeah I'm using a software DAW - Digital Performer 8 which is a very powerful and fully featured DAW it's used a lot in movie scoring and made by MOTU. I also use a MOTU 4pre interface which gives me 4 mic/line ins and connects to my Mac by firewire. so I can record two guitars and two mics at the same time, which is the kind of recording I do most often.
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GUITARHACKER - Thanks for spending the time on that detailed response. The pops and plosive t's and p's are all the result of the original. I've had to use a de-esser to tame the distortion and pretty well. But all you said is pretty right on about moderating the use of effects.
As I said above if there is a singer who would like to record this I would gladly provide the backing track, that was one of my goals in doing this. Even this less than perfect version is #14 out of thousands of country songs on soundclick without any promotion. So I think it could be a great vehicle for a female artist who identifies with the song to promote herself.
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I'm sending this remixed version back thru - I have addressed several issues mentioned above - the link on the original post will take you to the remixed version. I'd be interested in any comments on this work. here"s a copy of the link for convenience. http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=13078156&q=hi&newref=1
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