|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,739
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,739 |
Cubase is looking very sleek these days too and its exceptionally powerful reliable and smooth - light years ahead of PG. They even have the Sibelius team working on a new Score package.
Before anyone says it costs more, its about the same price as BIAB. The development team are simply way ahead.
Z
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,567
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,567 |
A fancy GUI never wrote a good song. From much of the music I've heard lately, the new tech hasn't opened up a new world of creativity.
It's not the brush, it's the painter.
Regards,
Bob But a badly written GUI has interfered with creative freedom Of course! Jimi could have played Purple Haze on a kazoo but methinks it would not have had the same impact! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
Cubase is looking very sleek these days too and its exceptionally powerful reliable and smooth - light years ahead of PG. They even have the Sibelius team working on a new Score package.
Before anyone says it costs more, its about the same price as BIAB. The development team are simply way ahead.
Z Comparing Cubase to BIAB is comparing apples to oranges, is it not? Comparing Cubase to Sonar or PT would be more apropos. Regards, Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,272
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,272 |
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,635
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,635 |
"It's not the brush, it's the painter."
Hmm,
I can get a lot more done (a lot faster) with an airless sprayer than an old paintbrush... and the finish will likely shine better.
It's only true up to a point.
If it's clunky to use the work will take longer and inspiration becomes drained.
However, a nice shiny paint brush handle doesn't mean the 'brush' is any better.
Making any software look better doesn't make it perform better; it takes real improvements to the whole UI/UX to be effective .. and that takes a bit of work.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
"It's not the brush, it's the painter."
Hmm,
I can get a lot more done (a lot faster) with an airless sprayer than an old paintbrush... and the finish will likely shine better.
It's only true up to a point.
If it's clunky to use the work will take longer and inspiration becomes drained.
However, a nice shiny paint brush handle doesn't mean the 'brush' is any better.
Making any software look better doesn't make it perform better; it takes real improvements to the whole UI/UX to be effective .. and that takes a bit of work. When I said "painter", I was referring to someone like Monet. Probably should've said "artist". As for 'inspiration'; personally, I don't believe in it. God creates. Man recreates. Regards, Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,739
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,739 |
Hii Bob, I don't use Sonar or PT so can't comment, but would expect them to be better than BIAB GUI wise - everything is. I did not mean to suggest that BIAB should be like Cubase, rather it can learn from its GUI which is slick, stylish, functional and unquirky.
Its gobsmacking that we had to wait years for a mandolin to be called a mandolin, and we still can't hear a VST without first running the track - it's very poor, substandard stuff.
The last gui update was in some was a step backwards as the mixer is now stationary and unhideable.
My view is that BIAB can learn a lot from any professional GUI, even things like Paint Shop Pro. I can't think of any professional program that is so far behind. (IMO).
I just hope there is a total (competent) rewrite on the way, otherwise we are history.
Z
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Cubase is looking very sleek these days too and its exceptionally powerful reliable and smooth - light years ahead of PG. They even have the Sibelius team working on a new Score package.
Before anyone says it costs more, its about the same price as BIAB. The development team are simply way ahead.
Z So if you like Cubase so much better, why do you even bother with BIAB at all? I'm guessing it's because BIAB does many things cubase can't do at all. To me the comparison is more like the decision between marrying a beautiful but dumb blonde who never wants me to touch her because it might mess up her hair, or a not-quite-as-beautiful woman who is smart, can engage conversationally on many topics, can cook like a chef, has rich parents and a strong libido. THAT woman would be fun... and so is BIAB.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,739
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,739 |
Hi Pat,
With respect...
I was talking about the gui (again) not the program. I think BIAB can learn from photoshop too but this does not mean I claim that it should be 'like' photoshop, only that the gui could learn from some of its features and be slicker.
For the record I am passionate about BIAB, but I am very worried that its not keeping up. This much is seems obvious to many, though some want it like it is.
Z
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
Hii Bob, I don't use Sonar or PT so can't comment, but would expect them to be better than BIAB GUI wise - everything is. I did not mean to suggest that BIAB should be like Cubase, rather it can learn from its GUI which is slick, stylish, functional and unquirky.
Its gobsmacking that we had to wait years for a mandolin to be called a mandolin, and we still can't hear a VST without first running the track - it's very poor, substandard stuff.
The last gui update was in some was a step backwards as the mixer is now stationary and unhideable.
My view is that BIAB can learn a lot from any professional GUI, even things like Paint Shop Pro. I can't think of any professional program that is so far behind. (IMO).
I just hope there is a total (competent) rewrite on the way, otherwise we are history.
Z Z- I agree with most of what you've said. The GUI is abysmal. I also hope that a rewrite/redesign is under way. Actually, it was the old GUI that kept me from taking the program seriously years ago, before Real Tracks. I just think that there are more vital changes that need to be made (like more than 4 beats per measure) to improve the utility of the program. That being said, it's still the greatest tool I've ever used.  Regards, Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,739
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,739 |
Z- I agree with most of what you've said. The GUI is abysmal. I also hope that a rewrite/redesign is under way. Actually, it was the old GUI that kept me from taking the program seriously years ago, before Real Tracks. I just think that there are more vital changes that need to be made (like more than 4 beats per measure) to improve the utility of the program. That being said, it's still the greatest tool I've ever used. Regards, Bob agree with you too Bob - there are vital changes in many areas, fixes and things, the basics have to work intuitively first. Just fixing the bugs is not really enough though, we need a rethink, otherwise its "throwing good (development) money after bad " - spending on something that will need to go/ be heavily revised anyway. Style picker is a good example, its very confusing and scattered. I also think we need to get rid of a lot of clutter - things like rationalising the menus, making the Gui editable again with show hide features, make the chord window more intuitive ( took me months to discover how to isolate one bar), revise the notation window, revise the style picker, make recording an intuitive experience, make the sequencer window do something useful... I also agree it is in someways a great tool (lest I forget) Z
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,687 |
I think Z has a very good point. I've posted about the same thing for years. It's an old sales cliche' you sell the sizzle before you sell the steak. The functionality wouldn't have to change a bit but if Biab looked like these new DAW's I guarantee you sales would increase a lot. Eye candy has always been important but right now, today? Even more so.
FL Studio looks absolutely killer.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,073
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,073 |
I'm 69, I watched and afterwards everything in my environment seems quite normal. I thought perhaps at my advanced age I was going to be atomized.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Hi Pat,
With respect...
I was talking about the gui (again) not the program. I think BIAB can learn from photoshop too but this does not mean I claim that it should be 'like' photoshop, only that the gui could learn from some of its features and be slicker.
For the record I am passionate about BIAB, but I am very worried that its not keeping up. This much is seems obvious to many, though some want it like it is.
Z Hi Z... My question was rhetorical rather than being a challenge. The point I was trying to make is that when products of equal ability compete, the one that looks best wins. But if you bring something to the table that the competition simply doesn't have.. then looks become secondary. This principle has enabled homely rich men to get pretty wives throughout history. Interesting theory.. but does it translate into reality? The last time I saw numbers reporting market share for the various music making programs, BIAB was listed higher than a lot of well known programs that are being used here as favorable examples to emulate. But... BIAB already has more market share then they do... so something in this argument doesn't add up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,402
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,402 |
I'm 69, I watched and afterwards everything in my environment seems quite normal. I thought perhaps at my advanced age I was going to be atomized. Hold on there, did you open up at least five different views and custom size them across multiple large screen monitors? And did you play that 40 track demo dance project through your speakers at a high volume? And did you turn off all the lights in the room (except the lava lamp) and sit back in a chair and marvel at the video wonders? Give this a try and report back... 
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,567
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,567 |
The point I was trying to make is that when products of equal ability compete, the one that looks best wins. But if you bring something to the table that the competition simply doesn't have.. then looks become secondary. Pat, I wish that was true but the world is full of mediocre products and services that win because of pretty packaging. Millions of people buy bottled water that comes from the same city water supply as their tap water because of the story they have been told. People line up for hours or days to get the Apple watch that is no better at telling time than a cheap Casio at Walmart (and these same folks already have every internet device available so it isn't like they need the Apple watch to get online). But this issue goes MUCH deeper than just looks. Improved GUI makes a software product easier to use and more fun to use and it makes you more productive. Because you already know how to work around BIAB's warts you see it as bringing so much more to the table than the competition but I am sure lots of people (especially younger people) place a higher value on the usability/productivity side of the equation and when you seriously consider those factors, even though a product excels in one area, having such detriments in another kinda balances the whole thing out. And in that scenario lots of folks are gonna choose modern over Windows 3.1. And one last thought...I know we are told not to judge a book by its cover but in a world where we are inundated with choices and options, great products that are ugly and not nearly up to current GUI standards are gonna simply get passed over by many/most people. Their loss? Yeah, but PG's and ultimately ours too!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,355
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 18,355 |
This is certainly not meant to be confrontational, and I don't want anyone at PGM to take offense.
BUT - I showed this to a programmer colleague of mine, and without any prompting from me, he said: "What's this, some kind of cartoon?"
That's when I realized that it wasn't only me that thought the GUI needed some serious work. Let's face it, the concept is sensational, the capability is amazing, the functionality is astounding. But the front-end that delivers all of this? Well.... it's been described as cartoon like. No offense PGM. Just an actual fact. It happened.
Constructive feedback is valuable.
(I don't think I'm the only kid on the block)
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,545
PG Music Staff
|
|
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,545 |
))) showed this to a programmer colleague of mine, and without any prompting from me, he said: "What's this, some kind of cartoon?" Sorry, you have to do better than that. It's like me saying to a songwriter, I played 5 seconds of your song to the UPS delivery guy and he says it sucks. And for the record, adding "no offense" after an offensive comment like that is pointless. And I say that with the greatest respect  Have a look at the main screens of some of these DAW programs that you are drooling over. They are looking very complex and busy to me, like the cockpit of a jet aircraft. Is that what you want, hundreds of knobs, sliders, widgets, flashing lights, all visible on two monitors at same time? DAW screen. E.g http://createdigitalmusic.com/files/2011/03/GiantFL10ScreenshotNoText.jpgWhy not show one if those DAW screens to an elementary school teacher, and ask them how easy they think the program is to use? Btw, if you think I'm exaggerating about the comparison to the cockpit of a jet plane, here is a pic of the cockpit of a Boeing 747 http://www.avsim.com/pages/0309/iFly/Cockpit%203.jpgCompare that to the DAW screen above. And tell me which looks easier to operate, the DAW or the Boeing 747? To me the 747 looks easier, because it has way less controls, and has text labels on most items. Here's a screenshot of Band-in-a-Box 2015 http://static.emediamusic.com/product_assets/bb/2014-bandboxwin.jpgAnd, no, that doesn't look like a cartoon to me. I happen to like that there is text present on most of the buttons and elements in BiaB, unlike the DAW program screen that has just icons with no text for many items. You should also note that the Boeing 747 screen at least puts text labels on all of the knobs and buttons - I wonder why they do that instead of making a gorgeous looking cockpit screen with no text? For example, doesn't the text EVAC on big red evacuation button look ugly/dated/cartoonish, and shouldn't they just replace it with no text and a clever modern no-text icon of a stewardess evacuating the plane? Now don't get me wrong here- I am all for improving lots of aspects of BiaB GUI, and there's lots to be done there! But only in a way that makes it easier and more intuitive to use. So I'm not about to get rid of text on the buttons for example.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,607
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,607 |
+1 Peter. When I first heard about BIAB, I was told what the program does. I hadn't seen the program yet, but that had nothing to do with my wanting it. What BIAB does was the determining factor in buying it P.S. I would never buy a program that looked like this: DAW screen. E.g http://createdigitalmusic.com/files/2011/03/GiantFL10ScreenshotNoText.jpg
Last edited by raymb1; 04/30/15 05:40 AM.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,250
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,250 |
+1 Peter. When I first heard about BIAB, I was told what the program does. I hadn't seen the program yet, but that had nothing to do with my wanting it. What BIAB does was the determining factor in buying it. Another +1 from me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update Your PowerTracks Pro Audio 2024 Today!
The Newest RealBand 2024 Update is Here!
The newest RealBand 2024 Build 5 update is now available!
Download and install this to your RealBand 2024 for updated print options, streamlined loading and saving of .SGU & MGU (BB) files, and to add a number of program adjustments that address user-reported bugs and concerns.
This free update is available to all RealBand 2024 users. To learn more about this update and download it, head to www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm#20245
The Band-in-a-Box® Flash Drive Backup Option
Today (April 5) is National Flash Drive Day!
Did you know... not only can you download your Band-in-a-Box® Pro, MegaPAK, or PlusPAK purchase - you can also choose to add a flash drive backup copy with the installation files for only $15? It even comes with a Band-in-a-Box® keychain!
For the larger Band-in-a-Box® packages (UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition), the hard drive backup copy is available for only $25. This will include a preinstalled and ready to use program, along with your installation files.
Backup copies are offered during the checkout process on our website.
Already purchased your e-delivery version, and now you wish you had a backup copy? It's not too late! If your purchase was for the current version of Band-in-a-Box®, you can still reach out to our team directly to place your backup copy order!
Note: the Band-in-a-Box® keychain is only included with flash drive backup copies, and cannot be purchased separately.
Handy flash drive tip: Always try plugging in a USB device the wrong way first? If your flash drive (or other USB plug) doesn't have a symbol to indicate which way is up, look for the side with a seam on the metal connector (it only has a line across one side) - that's the side that either faces down or to the left, depending on your port placement.
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows® Today!
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows for free with build 1111!
With this update, there's more control when saving images from the Print Preview window, we've added defaults to the MultiPicker for sorting and font size, updated printing options, updated RealTracks and other content, and addressed user-reported issues with the StylePicker, MIDI Soloists, key signature changes, and more!
Learn more about this free update for Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1111
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 Review: 4.75 out of 5 Stars!
If you're looking for a in-depth review of the newest Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows version, you'll definitely find it with Sound-Guy's latest review, Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows Review: Incredible new capabilities to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs.
A few excerpts:
"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics81,620
Posts735,183
Members38,518
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean