Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
Off-Topic
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
J
Joe V Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
J
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
Hi all,

In my music study, I've been learning to analyze and hear what key a song is in, modulations to other keys, substitute chords, etc. The rules take some decision making - but for the most part they are applied in structured ways, ways that can be programmed.

Has anyone run across a program that can do this, or is there nothing like it yet ?

P.S. - I would find it extremely helpful, in my study of theory, to have BB songs that list such information under the scores - is there any way to have this type of information displayed, or to look into selected files to extract it oneself ?

Off-Topic
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,099
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,099
The Audio Chord Wizard detects key signature, tempo, chords and slash chords (bass notes) but it's up to the user to put it all together.


Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1109) RB (Build 3) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H2, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
Off-Topic
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,607
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,607
Originally Posted By: Joe V
Hi all,

In my music study, I've been learning to analyze and hear what key a song is in, modulations to other keys, substitute chords, etc. The rules take some decision making - but for the most part they are applied in structured ways, ways that can be programmed.

Has anyone run across a program that can do this, or is there nothing like it yet ?

P.S. - I would find it extremely helpful, in my study of theory, to have BB songs that list such information under the scores - is there any way to have this type of information displayed, or to look into selected files to extract it oneself ?


Why is there not yet a program to analyze the modes, scales used in songs ?


What you're asking for is what you learn with more study. There are no short cuts or apps to learning music or to be a good musician. Study more and learn more.


Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,293
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,293
Because if you are a musician you are supposed to be able to recognize that stuff when you hear it. If you don't know a major scale from a minor scale or a pentatonic or a mixolydian, take some theory classes. It will truly help your song writing when you are looking for something that doesn't sound cookie cutter.

Chances are you already PLAY all the different scales. You just don't know the theory behind them to know you are playing them.

Think about chord structure for a minute and how much voicing means. If you play a Dm (with the A on the bottom) with your right hand over a B bass, you are playing a Bm7b5 and you don't know it. An F chord on your right hand over a G in the bass is an F9 because G is the 9th note on the F scale. I am sure you have played that chord. Maybe you didn't know it was an F9. Stuff like that is examples of how different things become second nature by virtue of hearing them and finding them on the keyboard and not knowing what they are. You don't have to know what they are, but it helps you write (not better, but often) faster if you do. If you know the theory, your writing will seem easier when you are looking for chords.

So the non-long winded answer is "Because that's the kind of thing musicians are supposed to know."


I smashed the hell out of my car today. When the cops came I told him "Officer, that guy was BOTH texting and drinking a beer." The cop said "Sir, he has every right to do that. I mean, it's HIS living room..."
Off-Topic
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
J
Joe V Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
J
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
I was thinking more of this as an effective ear training tool - I simply do not have the time given my full-time (non-music) job and personal responsibilities to reach this point the way 'traditional' musicians do, and thought this would be a great ear training tool that works on specific songs....learning these things out of song context is great - what separates the 'men from the boys' is being able to apply and hear them in real songs.


....but all your answers are well-received and valid to me...

Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,576
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,576
First of all, there's a basic barrier to use. In order for a program to analyze the progression, you'll need to enter in the chords and melody. That's probably a lot more work than the analysis itself. Sort of like Danny Dunn and the Homework Machine.

Next, there's the problem that there's often more than one analysis possible, and often there may be parallel functions happening. Displaying all these options would be confusing - which are the right ones? Although a program can select a likely analysis, that doesn't mean it's right.

Finally, the analysis doesn't mean anything by itself. You have to understand what those underlying harmonic functions represent. And if you knew that, you'd probably not need the analysis software in the first place. Basically, what Eddie was alluding to.


-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
Off-Topic
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492
Expert
Offline
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,492
A fast way is to look for the last note. It usually, but definitely not always, is the root of the key. If your key shown by accidentals is "C" and the last note is "D", then it could be Dorian. This needs to be verified by the chordal structure. A software could be created to do that for you. But I guess that a proficient musician could see that fast enough without software.

For BIAB, write that mode into the filename. Then you can even search for it in the file explorer.


Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Off-Topic
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,638
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 20,638
Originally Posted By: dcuny
First of all, there's a basic barrier to use. In order for a program to analyze the progression, you'll need to enter in the chords and melody. That's probably a lot more work than the analysis itself. Sort of like Danny Dunn and the Homework Machine.

Next, there's the problem that there's often more than one analysis possible, and often there may be parallel functions happening. Displaying all these options would be confusing - which are the right ones? Although a program can select a likely analysis, that doesn't mean it's right.

Finally, the analysis doesn't mean anything by itself. You have to understand what those underlying harmonic functions represent. And if you knew that, you'd probably not need the analysis software in the first place. Basically, what Eddie was alluding to.


JoeV, read dcuny's note very carefully. It is spot on. Even with the same chord structure there are many ways to get from one chord to another and IMHO learning theory is the only way to determine those paths.


Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.

64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Off-Topic
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
J
Joe V Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
J
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
I agree with all of you - but I still feel - at least for me, this would be a great practice and study tool.

For the record - I bet the very program we use for accompaniment was once considered similarly in terms of complexity and utility.

Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,563
P
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
P
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,563
Modal Chord Progressions

you could try plugging these progressions into biab and generating random melodies to get a feel for how the modes sound



modes in music


Last edited by pghboemike; 06/16/15 03:01 AM.

Lenovo YOGA 900 Window s 10 Home 64bit 16GB RAM\2018 13” MacBook Air casio wk7500 presonus audiobox i2 usb interface
casio wk-7500
biab & realband 2023 everything pk both with Current builds
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

New with the DAW Plugin Version 6.0, released with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows: the Reaper® Panel!

This new panel offers built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper® tracks!

When you run the Plugin from Reaper®, there is a panel to set the following options:
-BB Track(s) to send: This allows you to select the Plugin tracks that will be sent Reaper.
-Destination Reaper Track: This lets you select the destination Reaper track to receive media content from the Plugin.
-At Bar: You can select a bar in Reaper where the Plugin tracks should be placed.
-Start Below Selected Track: This allows you to place the Plugin tracks below the destination Reaper track.
-Overwrite Reaper Track: You can overwrite previous content on the destination Reaper track.
-Move to Project Folder: With this option, you can move the Plugin tracks to the Reaper project folder.
-Send Reaper Instructions Enable this option to send the Reaper Instructions instead of rendering audio tracks, which is faster.
-Render Audio & Instructions: Enable this option to generate audio files and the Reaper instructions.
-Send Tracks After Generating: This allows the Plugin to automatically send tracks to Reaper after generating.
-Send Audio for MIDI Track: Enable this option to send rendered audio for MIDI tracks.
-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.

Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video

The new Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin Verion 6 adds over 20 new features!

Watch the new features video to learn more: Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2024 - DAW Plugin Version 6 New Features

We also list these new features at www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.plugin.htm.

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,393
Posts732,475
Members38,441
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
zagrajbarke, Ernest J, Izzy, BenChaz, Csofi
38,440 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 195
Al-David 124
DC Ron 113
dcuny 87
rsdean 83
Today's Birthdays
CeeDee, SethMould
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5