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#307117 - 08/16/15 02:05 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: SampleTank DXi [Re: sixchannel]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6695
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6695
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Originally Posted By: sixchannel
I'm a Musician - thats why I bought BIAB - NOT a computer Programmer.


Becoming a computer nerd (not exactly a programmer but a nerd) is EXACTLY what you need to do if you want to advance when working with digital audio. I know because your quoted comment is pretty much word for word what I posted here way back when.

A little history. First Biab HAS NO SOUND OF IT'S OWN. Digest that comment for a minute. It's just a program. It does NOT produce sound. What produces the sound you ask? Whatever midi synth YOU DECIDE TO USE. I'm not talking about Real Tracks now, only midi sounds.

PG wants to set customers up with some basic sounds so when they install Biab and hit Play they hear something. For years that was the Roland VSC. The VSC goes back to the 80's and Roland stopped updating it like 20 years ago. It only works on 32 bit systems while pretty much everybody now is on a 64 bit systems so the VSC is out. What could PG do? First they worked with Coyote to write some code that lets Biab use the very primitive Window's wavetable synth that is part of any Windows OS. Those sounds are very unsatisfactory though. What is out there that doesn't cost anything, as in FREE, that PG might use? How about SampleTank Free? Turns out ST allows anybody to write their own patches and link them up so the HQ patch set was born.

Here's the point though. PG has squat to do with IKM. Totally separate companies. PG can't log into IKM and set up an account for you, you have to do that and it's spelled out clearly in the installation docs that you apparently didn't read.

IKM gives away ST Free in the hope you will like it and then buy some of their pretty good sound libraries. Simple as that.

My point in explaining all this is when it comes to digital audio, the overall market is so small it's up to you to figure this all out. PG gives you a very detailed explanation of how to go to the IKM website and set it all up.

To get back to my main point though about Biab having no sounds of it's own. You're totally free to buy whatever software synth or hardware synth like the Ketron SD2 or maybe a Roland Sonic Cell you want. The sound part is completely up to you. All PG is doing is giving you two things, the Coyote Wavetable and instructions how to use ST FREE to be able to use the HQ sound set that requires that.

Otherwise you're free to go and buy any synth you want.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#307123 - 08/16/15 02:51 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: SampleTank DXi [Re: jazzmammal]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 4334
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Online   happy
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 4334
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jazzmammal,

I agree the weak link using midi with Windows is the funky sounding wavetable instrument sounds that Windows uses by default. I also agree PG Music has offered multiple free instrument sound upgrades including the Roland VSC and Coyote WT. However neither option requires setting up an account or registration. Neither option requires the user to associate a selected instrument sound with a midi channel. In comparison, Sampletank is much more difficult to set up or use than either VSC or WT.

In my opinion PG Music would have been better served by replacing VSC, a universal midi sound module, with it's successor the Roland TTS-1 which is also a universal midi sound module. That way those users that desire to use banks of discrete midi instrument sounds could use Kontact, Sampletank or some other multi channel midi player I've overlooked.

In retrospect, perhaps Sampletank was not the best solution for a universal midi instrument player.


Edited by JimFogle (08/16/15 02:54 PM)
Edit Reason: fix typos
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2019 BiaB (606) UltraPlusPak RB 2019 (Build 2)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB SSD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

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#307130 - 08/16/15 04:36 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: SampleTank DXi [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11619
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11619
Loc: Hamlin NY
Jim, SampleTank is not designed to be a universal MIDI instrument player. Only a GM (General MIDI) synth is a universal MIDI instrument player. Anything other a GM synth requires very similar setups as SampleTank. If you want really good MIDI sounds you have to dig down and learn MIDI.

Also it you are going to use a non-universal MIDI instrument player you should not use it in BiaB (this is my opinion only) and use it in a DAW. BiaB is a PITA when it comes to non-universal MIDI instrument players, but I will justify that by saying BiaB was not designed that way. It is designed for GM synths and I think they added SamplTank to help people move away from GM, at least those of us who use MIDI and/or want to learn MIDI.

This is just my opinion and yours may vary.
_________________________
Politicians, like diapers, occasionally need to be changed. Usually for the same reason!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

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#307242 - 08/17/15 03:40 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: SampleTank DXi [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 07/09/15
Posts: 128
pedwards2932 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/15
Posts: 128
I can only speak from my experience and the only issue I had with the SampleTank install is I already had ST so it gave me 2 instances of ST and at that point BIAB had difficulty locating it. Since the BIAB installation program put ST in you'd think it would know where it put it while installing it. But then it was just a simple matter of showing BIAB where the install was. If you think registering ST is a pain you need to try installing Adobe Cloud products.....just saying. The only other issue I had which was my own boneheadedness was you can't replace sounds on a "Real" Track.....didn't dawn on me until I realized they weren't midi tracks. I also have the Roland TTS-1 which I use initially because the sounds are pretty good and only use ST if I am looking for something specific.

Incidentally I work as an IT specialist so registering and installing products are things I have to deal with daily.


Edited by pedwards2932 (08/17/15 03:43 AM)

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#307250 - 08/17/15 05:18 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: SampleTank DXi [Re: BIABguy]
Registered: 01/08/10
Posts: 1486
Loc: Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
GHinCH Offline
Expert

Registered: 01/08/10
Posts: 1486
Loc: Schleswig-Holstein, Germany
I didn't have any issues with getting SampleTank to work and authorized.
But then "I didn't think" and I don't deviate too much from the standard install.

The more you take scenic and adventurous routes to reach your destination point the later you will get there and you might just be in the middle of nowhere when you need Forrest Gump to comment your situation.
_________________________
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build

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#307356 - 08/17/15 11:48 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: SampleTank DXi [Re: pedwards2932]
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2153
Loc: New Mexico
Larry Kehl Offline
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Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2153
Loc: New Mexico
The SampleTank DXi (as installed BY IKM and PG BIAB), actually 100% of ALL DX's and DXI's are ALWAYS in a KNOWN location by the calling application (e.g., BIAB, Sonar, Reaper) becasue (unlike VST's/VSTi's) it is a Microsoft DX spec'ed item.

Therefore it is installed INTO the registry and has to follow certain Microsoft rules, the first is WHERE (.dll's, exe.s', etc.) ARE LOCATED.

Note, for Win 7 Sp1 all MFx soft synths (aka DXi's) are listed:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\MfxSoftSynths

Specifically, Sample Tank DXi at key {85D864F5-8660-473F-894F-FE33611C1CA7}

and its .dxi installed location is listed in:

HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Wow6432Node\CLSID\{85D864F5-8660-473F-894F-FE33611C1CA7}\InprocServer32

As a note to others if you have ALREADY installed ST2 from IK (free or full versions, BTW ST 3 has NO IMPACT AT ALL) and the DXi (not the VSti, the VSTi is immaterial) works in other application then when you install BIAB I would recommend you UNCHECK the option to install the IK SampleTank 2 DXi (again!)



Larry
_________________________
Win10Pro64,i78086K,32GB,2TBSSD+20TB HDDs,1080TI,Scarlett18i8,MIDI4x4,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,GR-50,Integra7,XV5080,Fantom-XR,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL20, SO3,MC8,AD2,ST3,Kontakt5,Amptube4,etc.. but I'm really a guitar player;AXE FX III+++

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#307362 - 08/17/15 12:25 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: SampleTank DXi [Re: Larry Kehl]
Registered: 07/09/15
Posts: 128
pedwards2932 Offline
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Registered: 07/09/15
Posts: 128
Probably the best advice.....but what I wonder is when you select use a HiQ sound BIAB has specific ST files it uses and they are in the BIAB folder that is in the Instruments folder in ST. If you don't install the BIAB ST folder what happens when you select a HiQ sound? In my case when it couldn't find the BIAB folder I got error messages and the HiQ sound wouldn't load. Once I pointed BIAB to the BIAB folder then when I selected the load HiQ sound everything worked as it should.

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#307369 - 08/17/15 01:12 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: SampleTank DXi [Re: pedwards2932]
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2153
Loc: New Mexico
Larry Kehl Offline
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Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2153
Loc: New Mexico
The HI-Q instruments & samples (which are SampleTank formatted instruments and samples) are installed SEPARATELY from the SampelTank DXi application.

The HI-Q stuff even has separate INSTALLERS.


As long as the ST 2 DXi is properly installed, by either the BIAB install route or the IK MM install route, and it's working then, BIAB will know how to call up ST2 DXi. Then BIAB will "load" ("send over" to ST 2 DXi is probably a better way to say it) the selected HI-Q instrument (the .sti, .stip,and .sth files which are IK formatted files, that in-turn cause the actual sound [.STW or SAMPLEs to be loaded by SmapleTank)



The USUAL, annual, XMAS issue or SNAFU is that the actual sound files (.sti. stw. ...) are not found by the SampleTank application (aka DXi in this case) - until the path to ST sound list is refreshed. That is, the ST instrument library is updated using "Prefs" as you have already shown how to do a few posts back.

However, don't confuse where the ST SOUND libraries are installed (and where BIAB put it's ST HI-Q sounds) with where the ST 2 application (standalone, VSTi and DXi) is installed - by default the instrument libraries and the application(s) are separate things and installed in separate locations.

Larry
_________________________
Win10Pro64,i78086K,32GB,2TBSSD+20TB HDDs,1080TI,Scarlett18i8,MIDI4x4,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,GR-50,Integra7,XV5080,Fantom-XR,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL20, SO3,MC8,AD2,ST3,Kontakt5,Amptube4,etc.. but I'm really a guitar player;AXE FX III+++

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#307384 - 08/17/15 03:01 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: SampleTank DXi [Re: Larry Kehl]
Registered: 07/09/15
Posts: 128
pedwards2932 Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 07/09/15
Posts: 128
Mine for whatever reason installed the BIAB inside my original IK Multimedia folder in /Sampletank 2.5/Instruments/band in a box. I am guessing what BIAB installed was the SampleTank 2.5. I didn't have any input on where it was going to install as far as I remember. All I know is it works now.

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#307496 - 08/18/15 11:27 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: SampleTank DXi [Re: pedwards2932]
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2153
Loc: New Mexico
Larry Kehl Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 2153
Loc: New Mexico
Correct, to date, PG supplies ST 2.5 "stuff" - I'm lazy and easier to type ST 2 then ST2.5 grin

Glad it's working for ya! (and yes that is where BIAB installs the HI-Q ST 2.5 files I won't further confuse issue for anyone)

Good Luck
Larry
_________________________
Win10Pro64,i78086K,32GB,2TBSSD+20TB HDDs,1080TI,Scarlett18i8,MIDI4x4,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,GR-50,Integra7,XV5080,Fantom-XR,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL20, SO3,MC8,AD2,ST3,Kontakt5,Amptube4,etc.. but I'm really a guitar player;AXE FX III+++

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#307624 - 08/19/15 04:48 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: SampleTank DXi [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6695
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6695
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Originally Posted By: JimFogle
Jazzmammal,In my opinion PG Music would have been better served by replacing VSC, a universal midi sound module, with it's successor the Roland TTS-1 which is also a universal midi sound module.


Jim, you're not paying attention buddy. First, the TTS-1 is not free and second it's not available by itself, it's only available with the purchase of a Cakewalk product such as Sonar or Music Creator. If you look on the homepage you'll see that PG sells MC for about the same price as the Forte DXi and the loss of the VSC is the reason they started doing that. It's just another affordable option for folks who don't want to spend $400 for a sound module or a large software library.

If PG wants to give away MC just so you can get the TTS-1 fine, but then I'm sure all that means is the cost of Biab goes up by that much. And don't forget MC is a Cakewalk product, you still have to create an account with them and register it so you'll be on their email list just like we're all on IKM's list.

There's no free lunch here. The only free anything was the VSC and the current Wavetable.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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PG Music News
Notation Enhancements in Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows!

There are Notation Enhancements in the NEW Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows! These include:
•A new button in the Print Options dialog which lets you quickly print a "chords only" fake sheet. You can also access this from the right-click menu on the chord sheet.
•A new track type (Drums) is now available for The Melody and Soloist tracks.
•Clicking close to a stave line will put a note on the stave line instead of between stave lines. (Previously, you had to click extremely close to a stave line to insert a note on The line.)
•Double-clicking on the Standard mode Notation window (or on the time line in Editable or Staff Roll mode) plays the song from the current time location. Previously, it played the song from the beginning of the current bar.
•Holding down the [Ctrl] key and pressing the zoom in/out buttons results in finest possible incremental adjustment in size.
•In The Notation Windows Options dialog, The clefs split point asterisk indicates that C5* is middle C.
•Pressing The space bar plays the song from the current time location, not the current bar.
•The clefs split point can be set by the spin controls.
•The right-click menu in the Editable or Staff Roll mode Notation window has an option to change the current beat resolution. Previously, the only way to do this was to right-click on the time line.
•There's a keystroke entry notation mode - the 'N' mode, which lets you enter a melody entirely using keystrokes. The keystrokes are N to enter a note, up/down cursor to change its pitch, and left/right cursor to move the time line.
•You can now edit any track in the Event List Editor. When The dialog opens, it will show you the MIDI data in the current Notation track.
•You can quickly enter forced accidentals from the right-click menu.

We talk about these new features within our Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows®! New Features, RealTracks, and other content! video:
25:45 - New Features: Easy Entering of Notation with the 'N' Key
36:48 - Change Beat Resolution From the Right-Click Menu
37:15 - Easier Entry of Notes on Lines
37:42 - Asterisk to Indicate Middle C on & Spin Controls
37:53 - Force Accidental from the Right-Click Menu
38:01 - Edit Any Track in the Event List
38:09 - Keystroke Note Entry Mode 'N' for Faster Note Entry
38:28 - Print Chords Only Fake Sheet
38:32 - More Control of Notation Size

Rather read about it?
-Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows® Upgrade Manual
-New Feature Summary - Notation Enhancements

The New Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows SongPicker!

With Band-in-a-Box® 2019, the SongPicker has been redesigned!
-The completely redesigned window shows information for up to 50,000 songs.
-The song list build is much faster. Approximately 150 songs get added per second.
-A progress bar will appear if the song list build takes longer than 3 seconds.
-You can see the chord progression for the selected song in the list. You can copy and paste it to a text file.
-Many filters are available. You can filter the list by subfolders, genre, feel, time signature, style, songs with melody, soloist, lyrics, key signature, tempo range, and the year of file dates.
-You can search songs that have similar chord progressions and/or melody fragments.
-Hotkey! ss+enter opens the SongPicker, ss2+enter opens the Recently Played Songs, etc.

Learn more about the updates with our New Features Video - we've made it easy to find the section you'll need:
2:55 - New Feature: Redesigned SongPicker
21:58 - New Features: SongPicker Enhancements
41:10 - Now Over 10,600 Titles in SongPicker

You can also read all about the new SongPicker within our Online Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows® Upgrade Manual.

RealBand 2019 Online and PDF Manuals Available!

Visit our Online Manuals support page for access to the latest RealBand 2019 for Windows program manuals!

RealBand 2019 for Windows User's Guide: Online Manual | PDF Download
RealBand 2019 for Windows New Features Guide: Online Manual | PDF Download

RealBand 2019 is included in every purchase of Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows! We're having a SALE on Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Upgrade purchases until December 31, 2018 - save over 40% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Upgrade! Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Online and PDF Manuals Available!

Visit our Online Manuals support page for access to the latest Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows program manuals!

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows User's Guide: Online Manual | PDF Download
Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Upgrade Manual: Online Manual | PDF Download

Don't forget.... We're having a SALE on Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Upgrade purchases until December 31, 2018 - save over 40% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Upgrade! Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 on a USB 3.0 Hard Drive - Speed Thrills!

We're excited to say that all Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows UltraPAK and UltraPAK+ orders now ship on a USB 3.0 hard drive!

What does this mean? Faster hard drive transfer rates will enhance the program operations (faster time to generate tracks, reduced audio artifacts) and offer faster transfer speeds (typically up to 3x faster)!

It's a great time to order your UltraPAK or UltraPAK+ Upgrade... they're ON SALE until December 31st!

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows® New Features!

Our "Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows®! New Features, RealTracks, and other content!" video is now ready! Get to know all about the newest features in Band-in-a-Box® 2019: Click here to watch...

We have listed a table of contents for this video, you'll see it within the YouTube video description, or by visiting this forum post.

RealBand 2019 - A New Look!

Have you opened up your RealBand 2019 yet? You may notice that we've given it a fresh new look! In fact, there are now 3 different looks to RealBand.

See for yourself! Within the program, visit Options | Icon Set and choose from: Classic, Modern 1, or Modern 2.

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