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Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU #310683 09/17/15 01:23 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,243 WEST MIDLANDS, UK sixchannel OP Veteran
OP sixchannel Veteran Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,243 WEST MIDLANDS, UK	I'm having some problems with getting the Audio to play at the right place in my SGU. In this example, I have the Audio ONLY playing in Bars 1 to 5 (executed by using F5 key), then it stops and other instruments take over. This is PERFECT – it plays and stops where it should. BUT – when I want it to play again in Bars 26 to 30 it plays ONE BAR out of whack – i.e. it plays in Bars 27-31. SO my Workaround is to tell it to play in Bars 25-29. (It is also true of every other instance in the tune where I want the Audio to play). That all works OK as a workaround but my question is WHY is it not playing where I want it? Clearly the timing is right otherwise the opening bars would also be wrong – but they aint! Any ideas? Thanks Ian Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10 ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp SOUNDCLOUD-tracks using BB- http://soundcloud.com/sixchannel Videos- https://youtube.com/user/Sixchannel1

Re: Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU sixchannel #310698 09/17/15 03:37 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 18,357 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 18,357 Melbourne, Australia	Hi Ian I haven't seen this before and I don't think I've got an answer, but I wonder if you could creep up on it to see it this behavior starts at a particular bar. Try making it play at bars 8, then at bar 12, then 16 etc. Work back and forward to see if this can be localised to always get out of step at a particular bar. Then there's the old Return to Factory Settings trick, - worth a try maybe Then there's PGM Support. A few options Trev BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU sixchannel #310709 09/17/15 05:01 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 18,884 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 18,884 Australia	Ian, I'm assuming that your work is in 4/4. Do you have 1/4, 2/4 or 3/4 bars? Regards, Noel MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2024 audios on Soundcloud

Re: Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU sixchannel #310715 09/17/15 05:25 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,243 WEST MIDLANDS, UK sixchannel OP Veteran
OP sixchannel Veteran Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,243 WEST MIDLANDS, UK	Hi guys its regular 4/4 and no short bars etc etc. It goes out of step immediately. If I bring the audio back in even a bar after the original cut (after Bar4 ends), its out by 1 bar. And everywhere thereafter. Doesnt get worse - just stays that bit out from the rest of the band! (Been in bands like that!!) Curious. Its the first time I've worked with an Audio track in BB so I have no pre-conceived idea of what is going on. But the Workaround is easy enough. (Note - I am using the audio of the song I am raising a BT for as it has a distinctive Intro and Infill part and I was using the Audio from it as BB can't create it.) Ian Last edited by sixchannel; 09/17/15 05:26 AM. Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10 ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp SOUNDCLOUD-tracks using BB- http://soundcloud.com/sixchannel Videos- https://youtube.com/user/Sixchannel1

Re: Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU sixchannel #310717 09/17/15 05:28 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,867 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,867 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	I haven't encountered this, either. I like Trevor's idea of Opt., Return to Factory Settings just to be sure the program is functioning correctly. Then Noel's question applies, since your song has red boxes at several bars indicating you have changed something in those bars (could just be tempo, or patch etc. but it would help to know what, especially if it is beats per measure). Another idea is to freeze the song and post it somewhere, like Dropbox, and send us a link here. We can try to verify the problem and experiment. I think we would need the audio file as well. And there's always PG Music Support, as mentioned. EDIT - I see you posted as I was typing. OK, no bars other than 4/4. I have only rarely used the BIAB audio track, but isn't there a one or two-bar lead-in? Maybe with that clue, someone can help. Last edited by Matt Finley; 09/17/15 05:30 AM. BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU sixchannel #310740 09/17/15 08:09 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,243 WEST MIDLANDS, UK sixchannel OP Veteran
OP sixchannel Veteran Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,243 WEST MIDLANDS, UK	OK - Factory Reset - everything still the same as posted. This was the Workflow - The Song was run through ACW, BAR 1 was set and checked and then sent to BB. This put the Audio in the bottom track of the mixer (title seems to have auto-changed from Soloist to Audio) and put the chords up on the SGU worksheet. (Some chords were wrong but they were "adjusted" by me afterwards anyway.) The SGU and Audio run in synch immediately and if I let it run it is spot on all the way to the end. SGU here - https://www.dropbox.com/s/gb9uy8ffr0qe1ht/FRENCH%20RENDEZ-VOUS%20%282%29.SGU?dl=0 MP3 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ni9xjwq8ddmgvgk/FRENCH%20RENDEZ-VOUS%20%282%29.mp3?dl=0 Sorry guys - I dont knowwhy they are not highlighting as links - you'll have to Copy and Paste. cheers ian Last edited by sixchannel; 09/17/15 08:12 AM. Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10 ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp SOUNDCLOUD-tracks using BB- http://soundcloud.com/sixchannel Videos- https://youtube.com/user/Sixchannel1

Re: Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU sixchannel #310759 09/17/15 10:47 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 18,884 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 18,884 Australia	Ian, I've downloaded from the links you've provided but the files don't work. It would be good if someone can confirm this so that I know it's not just me. Did you put them in the Public folder of Dropbox? Noel MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2024 audios on Soundcloud

Re: Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU Noel96 #310765 09/17/15 11:24 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,492 Schleswig-Holstein, Germany GHinCH Expert
GHinCH Expert Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,492 Schleswig-Holstein, Germany	Both links worked for me, I just don't have the time currently to test it. Will do later this night or tomorrow. Edit: I just realized that I'm way behind Noel -- here it is 2015-09-17 23:27 Last edited by GHinCH; 09/17/15 11:28 AM. Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build

Re: Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU sixchannel #310774 09/17/15 12:33 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,583 Pensacola, Florida jford Veteran
jford Veteran Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 12,583 Pensacola, Florida	So I tried it and it did the same thing on my machine. I also noticed that even though you turned audio off at bar 5, the audio continued to play through bar 5. If I turned audio back on at bar 26, it didn't come until bar 27. If I re-enabled it at 25, it came back on at bar 26 (which is what you want. What I did do, though, was I took the WAV file and edited it with an audio editor, and took out everything except the audio that you wanted to play, and then removed all the audio muting in the BIAB file. That seemed work (as a workaround). John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com

Re: Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU sixchannel #310784 09/17/15 02:20 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,098 South Carolina C Charlie Fogle Veteran
Charlie Fogle Veteran C Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,098 South Carolina	This sounds like something similar that occurred on one of my projects some time back. In my situation, the audio timing issue originated from the ACW. I corrected my issue by changing one of the first bar options from a menu that popped up just before sending the audio file into BIAB. As I recall, there are 7 or 8 options you can change on how the ACW handles the first bar. You can change time signature, merge bar one and two, insert silence, etc. I normally insert silence but in this instance, I had to choose one of the other options and that corrected the issue. It's been long enough that I can't recall precisely which other option I chose. Not sure if you are having the same issue as me, but it appears to be similar. Last edited by c_fogle; 09/17/15 02:22 PM. BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

Re: Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU sixchannel #310788 09/17/15 02:32 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,867 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,867 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Yes, that's what I was referring to. Thanks for providing more detail, c_fogle. BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU sixchannel #310801 09/17/15 05:51 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 18,884 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 18,884 Australia	I see the file problem was me... I've downloaded correctly this time. I tried John's experiment below and had the same result. Originally Posted By: jford So I tried it and it did the same thing on my machine. I also noticed that even though you turned audio off at bar 5, the audio continued to play through bar 5. If I turned audio back on at bar 26, it didn't come until bar 27. If I re-enabled it at 25, it came back on at bar 26 It's seems that what is causing the issue arises before bar 5. I think Charlie's thoughts are useful. When I get a chance I'll have a play around. It seems as though what is presently set as bar 5 in ACW could somehow be reset to bar 4, things might fall into place. (Not sure how that will impact on everything else, though.) MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2024 audios on Soundcloud

Re: Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU sixchannel #310810 09/18/15 12:20 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,243 WEST MIDLANDS, UK sixchannel OP Veteran
OP sixchannel Veteran Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,243 WEST MIDLANDS, UK	Hi I changed the location of the files, if anyone wants to take a look. SGU - https://app.box.com/s/ob1qdrg9ppylliard13753u6ekgkpi5f MP3 - https://app.box.com/s/2wzypt7k8r98f57k7ny8eqe4hd41w212 I've played around with it some and nothing seems to change that one bar out feature that occurs after the first time. However, I DO seem to remember (whether its relevant or not)that when the ACW had finished doing its thing, it shows a red line (is that its default Bar 1??)on the C7 (which is Bar 2 of the music)and I moved it to the first C chord (MY Bar 1). Could that have been responsible for the resulting one bar adrift on the later Unmute - mutes? BTW - the reason its Bar 5 and not Bar 4 was that the cutoff seemed a bit abrupt at Bar 4 and I was hoping to grab a bit of the reverb/decay in the start of Bar 5 before the guitar started to play and then clip the guitar out in my DAW. Results there are none to clever so maybe I'll go back to a mute after Bar 4 - or whatever it lets me do. lol!! Thanks for all the help. Much appreciated. Ian Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10 ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp SOUNDCLOUD-tracks using BB- http://soundcloud.com/sixchannel Videos- https://youtube.com/user/Sixchannel1

Re: Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU sixchannel #310816 09/18/15 01:40 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,098 South Carolina C Charlie Fogle Veteran
Charlie Fogle Veteran C Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,098 South Carolina	Ian quote: "However, I DO seem to remember (whether its relevant or not)that when the ACW had finished doing its thing, it shows a red line (is that its default Bar 1??)on the C7 (which is Bar 2 of the music)and I moved it to the first C chord (MY Bar 1). Could that have been responsible for the resulting one bar adrift on the later Unmute - mutes?" That may be relevant. ACW attempts to detect and set the first beat of the song and would display that as a colored line. The first bar needs to be set on the first down beat of the song, not necessarily the first note. It needs to be accurate. Therefore, if you determine that the ACW detection is inaccurate, then you would manually set the first downbeat using F6. In Realband, the ACW shows the tempo in more precise numbers whereas when using ACW in BIAB, the tempo is rounded. In either case, accuracy is the key. It is not uncommon for me to restart the ACW process two, three or more times until I see that the ACW is accurately reading the tempo in degrees of ten thousand's. Meaning the first numbers trailing the decimal point are zero's. 119.00782 for instance. You don't want your tempo variance to be in whole numbers. Of course, some songs do vary by whole number degrees if played without drums or metronome but that is different than what we are talking about here with your song. You can visually see very small changes in the tempo in RB by resetting the first bar in several areas around the first bar detected by the ACW. Those changes you see that are thousands of a beat are cumulative and cause drift over the length of the song. The different colors of the bar lines detected by the ACW are determined by the varying frequencies the ACW is detecting so you can easily lock into a specific instrument such as the bass for instance. It's a visual aid if you are using the F8 key to set the tempo. Last edited by c_fogle; 09/18/15 01:58 AM. BIAB Ultra Pak+ 2024:RB 2024, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

Re: Timing Issue - Audio in an SGU sixchannel #310853 09/18/15 05:38 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,243 WEST MIDLANDS, UK sixchannel OP Veteran
OP sixchannel Veteran Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,243 WEST MIDLANDS, UK	Hi - that seems to be it!! The Audio kicks in immediately so bars 1-5 are OK, but then any further requirements on that file are one bar out. Many thanks! Much appreciated. Ian Now all I gotta do is record the darned tune!! Old Guys Rule.The older I get,the better I was! BB2023 ULTRA, 1013, Win 7 and 10 ALL TRACKS - https://app.box.com/s/501rnzrbadng1elvi45hbf7y08kl5oxp SOUNDCLOUD-tracks using BB- http://soundcloud.com/sixchannel Videos- https://youtube.com/user/Sixchannel1

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