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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2015
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I am getting really close to a process that is working for me doing backing tracks.
Step 1 - Take recording of a song I want to make backing track and pull it into the ACW. The hardest part of this is getting the start position correct and even then the audio recording will get out of synch. I guess because the tune I am using isn't totally consistent time wise....this will get to my question.
Step 2 - Find closest style to original by first getting the drums as close as possible then add bass and simple guitar
Step 3 - Clean up the chords - usually find mistakes especially as you get to the end because of timing.
Step 4 - Add the signature sounds either live in my duo or if it is something I have to have just add it in to the backing track mix.
My question is using the ACW there are timing issues that I think can be corrected if you fix them before exporting them to BIAB. If I do this will the timing on my backing tracks fluctuate as well? I only use the original recording to set up the structure and make sure the chords are accurate but it gets difficult to listen to when it gets out of synch.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2000
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When you use ACW in BIAB, you can generate a tempo map to mostly match each bars tempo to the underlying song. BIAB only handles whole note tempos and only supports tempo changes at each bar, but as long as you start each bar on beat 1 of the underlying song, then you would only drift within a bar - the whole song won't drift as you move through it.
Once you have finished with establishing the chord progression, etc. and decide you don't need the original recording anymore, you can remove the tempo map from the song and set whatever consistent tempo you wish to use.
If you use RealBand instead of BIAB, it supports fractional tempos, so you can get much closer to the underlying song. ACW will still only make changes at each bar, but instead of setting the tempo to say, 121, it will set it to 10.83. After sending the song back to RealBand from ACW, you can even insert additional tempo changes anywhere along the time line, if you wish.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2015
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I saw the tempo map when I was loading the chords....does it automatically line up the first bar for each or do I have to do that in the ACW? I am interested in keeping the timing consistent so it would be easier to add stuff in later like percussion from Jamstix. How do you remove the tempo map? This is great info and I really appreciate your time. I am finally able to generate pretty respectable backing tracks quickly.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2000
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You have to tell ACW where the first bar is; that should translate back to BIAB. Then in ACW as you hit F8 to designate beat one of each (or certain) bars, the appropriate tempo gets set and is then saved into the bar settings of the chord grid when you go back to BIAB.
To erase a tempo map, go into the Audio Chord Wizard Utilities screen and you will see a button to erase the tempo map.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I am interested in keeping the timing consistent so it would be easier to add stuff in later like percussion from Jamstix. Neither BIAB nor RB as a host support Jamstix as a VSTi. They do not share the tempo with the VST.
Dan, BIAB2024, SoundCloud Win11, i7(12thGen), 32GB, 1TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD), 2TB Libraries, 1 TB(WD-Black), 2TB SSD(M.2 NVMe SSD)Data, Motu Audio Express, Keystation 61, SL88 Studio, Reaper
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2015
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I know but if I have a consistent bpm then when I pull it into Sonar everything will line up and I can use Jamstix.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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In addition to John's comment, I think it is also possible to erase the tempo map using "Bar Settings" (F5) and then select "Reset all bars" located at the bottom of the Bar Settings window. I haven't tried this so I'm not absolutely sure.
Last edited by Noel96; 10/20/15 09:48 AM.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I've done it, and yes, it works. It ALL goes - any fine tuning you've done.
Sometimes I will make up a song with lots of F5 adjustments, record each track, clear all the settings, and record just the drums to replace the original part. Or some such, as the song warrants. It's a good time saver to be able to easily prepare and save different performance versions of a song.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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"I know but if I have a consistent bpm then when I pull it into Sonar everything will line up and I can use Jamstix."
Can't Sonar follow a Tempo Map? Every bar shouldn't have to be the same .. you should be able to add Jamstix in Sonar and bring that track back to RB if desired.
Last edited by rharv; 10/20/15 01:32 PM.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Not sure I just got the new version of Sonar so I am not sure what it can do. It would be interesting because it would be closer to the original. We aren't going for exact copies just enough of the signature parts to keep it real.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Ok I thought I had this figured out......but I am practicing with Old Time Rock and Roll and there is a piano intro that I don't think is in time with the rest of the song. I moved the start bar to where the piano starts and was able to get the drums to synch with the beginning but as soon as the vocal starts it loses it. I tried using the F8 to insert bar changes and I "think" I have pretty good timing but just seems to mess it up worse. I tried tapping in a few till it looks like it lines up but when I pull it into BIAB it is unusable. Anyone have experience with ACW....I have watched all the videos.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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You maybe making the same mistake I always made when I first started using the Audio Chord Wizard or ACW. I would always set the starting point to where the audio begins as that makes sense, right? No because ACW is looking for beat 1, not where the audio begins.
Near the area where you set beat 1 you may have noticed ACW placed some lines with each line a different color. Those lines are ACW's guesses where beat 1 is. Try setting the beat 1 mark at one of ACW's guesses to see if that makes a difference.
Another thing that fooled me is that not every song starts on beat 1. Sometimes there is a one or two note lead in so the audio starts on the count of 3 or 4. Just remember ACW is looking for beat 1 of the first, complete bar and the partial, count-in bar is ignored.
Hope this helps.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1111) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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You can actually continue to press F8 on the first beat of every measure in the song, and you will see it reset the tempo as you go, rather than allowing the tempo to 'wander' with time. This is one way to create a unique tempo map. For some songs, I have found this produces the most accurate result, if you can be accurate with your key presses.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Even though ACW is pretty good about guessing the beat, I still go through the whole song and press F8 on each bar. Even then, I still go through and check it out and sometimes move the marker to a slightly different location. That gives me the most accurate tempo map.
Also, the colored lines superimposed on the WAV form have meaning:
Blue - Detected full range beat
Red - Detected bass beat
Lime - Detected mid-range beat
Fuscia - Detected treble beat
And then the lines where the chords and measures are shown:
Red - User edited barline
Green - Inferred barline
All this information is in the PDF user manual starting on page 359.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2024/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I think I got it finally. I was right on the start bar. ACW was showing this in key of F sometimes and Bb sometimes I guess depending on how I set the start??? I was pretty sure this was done in the key of E but F matches the recording? Odd thing I didn't know is the audio will change key when you change key so it matches. Anyway once I figured out how to fix my mistakes I was able to get it close enough for me. This is going to work great once I get proficient with it. I'm not sure if I will keep the mapping but I think it will give it a more live feel......I do this one in C so it isn't going to sound like Segar anyway but I don't think he does it in the original key anymore either....guess it's part of getting old.
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