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#33843 - 09/06/09 01:00 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
Registered: 05/13/03
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silvertones Offline
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yup and I'll be darned if i can find either
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#33844 - 09/06/09 01:03 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 1019
Wyndham Offline
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I've come into this thread late but it brings up several question about how BIAB functions. Does BIAB/RB generate it's file and call the parts of RTs when it needs it or does the program store the completed file with RTs in RAM?
If it has to call the RTs then maybe a solid state drive might be something that could be implemented in the future as a cache drive for the program to use the RTs and take the load off the hard drive. I've been out of building systems for awhile so I may have it all wrong.
Wyndham

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#33845 - 09/06/09 02:00 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Wyndham]
Registered: 05/29/00
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Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Mac Offline
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Quote:

I've come into this thread late but it brings up several question about how BIAB functions. Does BIAB/RB generate it's file and call the parts of RTs when it needs it or does the program store the completed file with RTs in RAM?




Not Ram, but the generated RT track is stored in C:\Temp for playback.

Quote:

If it has to call the RTs then maybe a solid state drive might be something that could be implemented in the future as a cache drive for the program to use the RTs and take the load off the hard drive. I've been out of building systems for awhile so I may have it all wrong.
Wyndham




I specify solid state for certain tasks on the day job, such as high g or high vibration or temp environments, doubt if there'd be enough gain in other factors to make it worth the while for this use.


--Mac
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#33846 - 09/06/09 04:40 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 1019
Wyndham Offline
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It might be a power supply issue. Is your Lappy a 110 with a transformer then plug in to the Laptop? I had a Samson portable 2 channel mixer that had a transformer go out, there might be a way to check the output voltage. Maybe Mac knows.
Wyndham

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#33847 - 09/06/09 06:02 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Wyndham]
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silvertones Offline
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When I load a *.seq file that is all RT does it load these into the temp folder? I didn't see that it did. I've been trying to find a free program that lets you assign a portion of RAM as another drive.
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#33848 - 09/06/09 07:57 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: silvertones]
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Everything Realband or PTW does once a .seq file is opened takes place on either C:\Temp as the default unless you've changed that to use a second hard drive for streaming purposes only, not really needed unless using a multichannel soundcard and using all the channels on it.


--Mac
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#33849 - 09/07/09 07:56 AM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
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silvertones Offline
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I've tried everything.I even opened a NEW file with nothing on it and hit record. It's even jittery there. Most of the time it's sort of smooth. Other times it's almost as if the scroll line stumbles over the audio graphic and then catches up. I would think that if there's any streaming issue it would be noticed in the audio. Audio's perfect. As I said I'm not going to obsess on it. What's your thoughts on refresh rate. It's locked to 60Hz
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John
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#33850 - 09/07/09 08:27 AM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: silvertones]
Registered: 12/11/07
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Loc: NSW, Australia
Lawrie Offline
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Refresh rate is only really evidenced by screen flicker - as you have an LCD monitor it is pretty much irrelevant.

I seem to recall asking if you'd updated your video drivers?
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#33851 - 09/07/09 08:58 AM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Lawrie]
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Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Mac Offline
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Long thread, hard to remember now, but--

Did you ever check your IRQ table, specifically to look for shares with Video and/or soundcard?

I still suspect that issue here, having seen it too many times in the field. Have always found that getting the soundcard on its own IRQ solves stuttering audio and sometimes this kind of video stuttering. Of course, the laptop IRQs are hardwired so there's little chance of changing that, but sometimes choosing a different aftermarket soundcard type can be effective. For example, a pcmcia slot that shares with video is bad, but replacing the sound device with a USB type can often be the cure.


--Mac
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#33852 - 09/07/09 09:39 AM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
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silvertones Offline
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Yes drivers are up to date although the last update was 2004. Found an update for BIOS.
Video card, Audigy & usb sharing the same IRQ. The internal card is on a different IRQ. I uninstalled the USB sound card & the Audigy with no real change.
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
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#33853 - 09/07/09 11:07 AM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: silvertones]
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Wyndham Offline
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If you have other programs like cakewalk or some of the free ones like reaper or audacity, do the same problems occur when working with those programs with large audio files. Just trying to find a common thread to the problem.
I remember a similar problem in another program several years ago and I believe it was an irq conflict on my desktop. There are several areas that are suspect but hopefully there's only one that the problem.
Wyndham

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#33854 - 09/07/09 12:29 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Wyndham]
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Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia USA
Mac Offline
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In decades of troubleshooting various systems, I can probably count on the fingers of my hands the number of times a problem was caused by more than one thing at the same time.

And most of those were "catastrophic" failures anyway. Lightning, surge, that sort of thing.

Occam's razor says it is caused by only one thing, too.

The real skillset involves the detective work that consists mostly of *process of elimination*, *isolation* and *critical thinking*.

And avoiding doing the same thing over and over. Because you've already proved it ain't that...


--Mac
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#33855 - 09/07/09 12:54 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Wyndham]
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silvertones Offline
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Sonar, Dart, Adobe Audition are not as smooth as they were on a CRT but they never seem to stumble over the waveform graphics.Read above about the IRQs
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#33856 - 09/07/09 05:05 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: silvertones]
Registered: 05/29/00
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I did read about the IRQs.

Um, I assume that Audigy is a USB device. If it is a pcmcia device, that may be a problem, but I don't think it would be enough to cause the screen stutter unless you are also using that USB port for something high bandwidth...


Easy enough to isolate that one, dismount USB devices, disable temporarily in Device Mgr and test.


--Mac
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#33857 - 09/07/09 05:23 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
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silvertones Offline
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Audidgy is PCMCIA
Extigy is USB
RealTech is onboard

I uninstalled the Extigy & Audidgy. There was no change. I reinstalled everything but put the Audidgy in the bottom slot. It now doesn't share IRQ with the Video Card. It shares with the RealTech. Usb shares with the Video Card.
Still no change.
2more things to try tomorrow. I acquired a free working CRT. I'm gonna try that.
Last my internal 160 G drive only has 49G left. I'm going to offload PGMusic products from it and try running from just the 160G drive they just sent.
After that F... it. I quit.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
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#33858 - 09/07/09 05:25 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
Registered: 01/07/08
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Wyndham Offline
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Mac, the more I think about this thread and the 3 last remain brain cells of mine wake up, I kinda think there was an issue with a usb hub setup that gave problems years back, it was something about conecting thru a hub for several USB devices.
Also John, have you checked to see if you have usb driver 2.0, I had problems once when I still had usb 1.1 Hope something here sticks on the wall. Later Wyndham

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#33859 - 09/07/09 06:17 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: rharv]
Registered: 05/30/00
Posts: 19067
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
rharv Offline
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Quote:

The jumpy scroller is a sign of system stress, as Silvertones found out.
I was going to suggest just playing a one track file to se if it went smooth.
Taking some of the load off the system, and freeing up resources alleviated the problem.
Good job troubleshooting it




Worth trying again,... eliminate tracks, shutdown processes, see if it improves.
Video, especially shared RAM type, suffers under system stress. Its better than the audio suffering. I think Jeff made it this way. Shared IRQ's and such will contibute, but I think it's a symptom of the computer being stressed on either the HD in/out or other system resource sacrifices.
Just a thought
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#33860 - 09/07/09 06:24 PM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: rharv]
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It is a Toshiba.

Some do audio well, some don't.

That's judging from problems seen on several different forums for several different products over the years.

I hear the newer models of Toshiba laptops are doing much better of late, nothing is forever, so don't hold it against the brand or anything, although I'm sure some will.


--Mac
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#33861 - 09/08/09 07:24 AM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: Mac]
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silvertones Offline
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I have dismounted the USB Extigy, Dismounted the PCMCIA Audidgy, Disabled the network cards, reduced all processes.
It'll start fine sometimes and all of a sudden like an old man it'll stumble and start stuttering.
The good thing is that the audio never stutters even with the output buffers at 500. I run them at 1000 to be safe.
The Chord sheet never stumbles.
When I play I only have two lines of the track view showing with the chord sheet on the bottom right & the words ( comments ) on the bottom left.
I just started a song, everything is enabled now,and it immediatly stuttered. Stopping for a quarter not and then jumping ahead. Stop, jump. Restarted the song played fine for about 30 measures and back to jumping. Towards then end it was stopping for over half the measure. Close your eyes though and the music was perfect. PS the Audidgy,is no longer sharing IRQ with the Vid.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
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#33862 - 09/08/09 07:50 AM [RealBand] Re: Small Annoyance [Re: silvertones]
Registered: 05/13/03
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silvertones Offline
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Now I'm getting to the bottom of this. I think Jeff needs to comment hear. I've said that any given song plays perfectly in Sonar, Audition & Dart. The way I tested was to take a sturring song and save as individual wav files and then load them in one at a time.Never thought to load the individual wav files into RB. Well I did and guess what? I've never seen the thing scroll so smoothly. I played the song from end to end 6 times without even a slight hiccup. Everything is active. I'm networked to the other computer. All processes turned on even stuff I don't need. Reloaded the SEQ version of the song--stutter. No real time effects on either version. Figure this one out. There must be a difference the way RB handles imported tracks vs loading SEQ files.
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PG Music News
Notation Enhancements in Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows!

There are Notation Enhancements in the NEW Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows! These include:
•A new button in the Print Options dialog which lets you quickly print a "chords only" fake sheet. You can also access this from the right-click menu on the chord sheet.
•A new track type (Drums) is now available for The Melody and Soloist tracks.
•Clicking close to a stave line will put a note on the stave line instead of between stave lines. (Previously, you had to click extremely close to a stave line to insert a note on The line.)
•Double-clicking on the Standard mode Notation window (or on the time line in Editable or Staff Roll mode) plays the song from the current time location. Previously, it played the song from the beginning of the current bar.
•Holding down the [Ctrl] key and pressing the zoom in/out buttons results in finest possible incremental adjustment in size.
•In The Notation Windows Options dialog, The clefs split point asterisk indicates that C5* is middle C.
•Pressing The space bar plays the song from the current time location, not the current bar.
•The clefs split point can be set by the spin controls.
•The right-click menu in the Editable or Staff Roll mode Notation window has an option to change the current beat resolution. Previously, the only way to do this was to right-click on the time line.
•There's a keystroke entry notation mode - the 'N' mode, which lets you enter a melody entirely using keystrokes. The keystrokes are N to enter a note, up/down cursor to change its pitch, and left/right cursor to move the time line.
•You can now edit any track in the Event List Editor. When The dialog opens, it will show you the MIDI data in the current Notation track.
•You can quickly enter forced accidentals from the right-click menu.

We talk about these new features within our Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows®! New Features, RealTracks, and other content! video:
25:45 - New Features: Easy Entering of Notation with the 'N' Key
36:48 - Change Beat Resolution From the Right-Click Menu
37:15 - Easier Entry of Notes on Lines
37:42 - Asterisk to Indicate Middle C on & Spin Controls
37:53 - Force Accidental from the Right-Click Menu
38:01 - Edit Any Track in the Event List
38:09 - Keystroke Note Entry Mode 'N' for Faster Note Entry
38:28 - Print Chords Only Fake Sheet
38:32 - More Control of Notation Size

Rather read about it?
-Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows® Upgrade Manual
-New Feature Summary - Notation Enhancements

The New Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows SongPicker!

With Band-in-a-Box® 2019, the SongPicker has been redesigned!
-The completely redesigned window shows information for up to 50,000 songs.
-The song list build is much faster. Approximately 150 songs get added per second.
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-You can see the chord progression for the selected song in the list. You can copy and paste it to a text file.
-Many filters are available. You can filter the list by subfolders, genre, feel, time signature, style, songs with melody, soloist, lyrics, key signature, tempo range, and the year of file dates.
-You can search songs that have similar chord progressions and/or melody fragments.
-Hotkey! ss+enter opens the SongPicker, ss2+enter opens the Recently Played Songs, etc.

Learn more about the updates with our New Features Video - we've made it easy to find the section you'll need:
2:55 - New Feature: Redesigned SongPicker
21:58 - New Features: SongPicker Enhancements
41:10 - Now Over 10,600 Titles in SongPicker

You can also read all about the new SongPicker within our Online Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows® Upgrade Manual.

RealBand 2019 Online and PDF Manuals Available!

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RealBand 2019 for Windows New Features Guide: Online Manual | PDF Download

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Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Online and PDF Manuals Available!

Visit our Online Manuals support page for access to the latest Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows program manuals!

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows User's Guide: Online Manual | PDF Download
Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Upgrade Manual: Online Manual | PDF Download

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We're excited to say that all Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows UltraPAK and UltraPAK+ orders now ship on a USB 3.0 hard drive!

What does this mean? Faster hard drive transfer rates will enhance the program operations (faster time to generate tracks, reduced audio artifacts) and offer faster transfer speeds (typically up to 3x faster)!

It's a great time to order your UltraPAK or UltraPAK+ Upgrade... they're ON SALE until December 31st!

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows® New Features!

Our "Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows®! New Features, RealTracks, and other content!" video is now ready! Get to know all about the newest features in Band-in-a-Box® 2019: Click here to watch...

We have listed a table of contents for this video, you'll see it within the YouTube video description, or by visiting this forum post.

RealBand 2019 - A New Look!

Have you opened up your RealBand 2019 yet? You may notice that we've given it a fresh new look! In fact, there are now 3 different looks to RealBand.

See for yourself! Within the program, visit Options | Icon Set and choose from: Classic, Modern 1, or Modern 2.

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