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#165692 - 07/14/12 02:04 AM [User Showcase] My First BIAB Song
Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 98
Loc: Nashville, TN
Mandolin Mike Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 98
Loc: Nashville, TN
Well, I have had BIAB a couple of days now , and I must say it is a bit overwhelmingly. Probably one reason why my first submission here is so basic. I actually had this song in the works just before my BIAB purchase, and the accompaniment just made it come together nicely.

Couple of disclaimers -

- In the past, I mostly have done cover songs. An original is rare for me, but something I wan to develop more fully as time goes on. One reason for my recent purchase.

- My electric guitar chops are severely lacking...I consider myself more of a rhythym guy,and usually play acoustics. I was tempted not to post this until I improved the lead fills, but I decided 'what the heck'..

- My voice is not great. I know that already. The good news is that this song doesn't push my limits too terribly much.

OK - enough of the excuses. Some technical details - I exported the wav tracks from BIAB over to Cubase for guitar/vocal tracking and final mixdown. I used a Fender Strat through a little Fender Super Champ amp (I just changed the strings on the guitar, and I noticed they are a bit out of tune on the recording I mic the amp and vocal through an Audio Technica 2020, which feeds into a Tascam US-144mkII. Nothing fancy, but works fine for my purposes.


Here is the link to the Soundclick file, the song is called

River Of Time

Any comments and suggestions are appreciated (taking into account the aforementioned warts, of course). More to come, I'm sure. Looking forward to making progress on the program's steep learning curve!
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#165693 - 07/14/12 02:47 AM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Mandolin Mike]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 192
jptjptjpt Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 192
This is great, first BIAB recording or not. Great mix. I do the same thing as you, i.e., export wav files to DAW (Mixcraft 5 in my case). It works great.

BIAB was very overwhelming for me too at the beginning. Now, after about three weeks, I can see that it will be an essential tool for my songwriting from here on out. I am so glad I purchased it.

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#165694 - 07/14/12 04:00 AM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: jptjptjpt]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 14890
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 14890
Loc: Australia
Hi Mike,

It's terrific to see you joining in the community. What a great first effort! You've written a very memorable, catchy melody. You had me humming along with you.

All the best,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#165695 - 07/14/12 05:04 AM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2646
Loc: Kentucky
PgFantastic Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 2646
Loc: Kentucky
Great work! Look forward to hearing more.


My Music
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Psalm 57:7 My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music.

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#165696 - 07/14/12 11:32 AM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: PgFantastic]
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Buford Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Heck of a good job for a first BIAB song. Don't worry, everything is a little "warty" initially. But just remember this is as bad as it will ever be; You'll only get better as you continue to work with the program. What BIAB version and Style did you use here? Did you use RealBand, Real Tracks, or Real Drums? The song has a great "rural stomp" feel. I like your guitar/amp sound.

Suggestions (remember, you asked!):

1. Crop your drum track to eliminate the intro clicks.
2. Create a volume envelope for your guitar track and pull it down during the vocal so they don't compete with each other.
3. Use your pan controls to move the guitar away from the vocal; try 40% L or R.
4. Pan your bass and drums SLIGHTLY off center: Drums L 10, Bass R 10
5. Add a rhythm guitar track (strumming only)using less guitar tone and the rhythm pickup and pan it opposite the lead guitar track the same %. Keep the volume lower than the lead.

I know you think your vocal is not great, but actually you have a unique voice quality that really fits this song. Just sing a lot more and work on your pitch control. Get a month of voice lessons if you can find a good teacher and then sing everday. You'll be amazed at how fast you improve your performance.

I didn't find your guitar playing to be that bad. You'll get better at it if you keep working. Recording is a very clinical process, and you only have to get it right ONCE. Keep tracking until it's as perfect as you can make it. I sometimes do thirty or forty takes to get a 10-second guitar intro perfect. Then I don't wince for the next ten years when I listen to it.

BIAB is an incredible and wonderful tool for songwriters, vocalists, and musicians. I really don't know how we got along before we discovered it. We've been using it in the studio now for over 10 years with great results. The first day I got it, I couldn't put it away and played with it all day, until 2 AM. Take all the video instruction that comes with the program and you'll be well on your way to mastering it. It's hard to have more fun in the studio playing and recording than with BIAB. It definately enhances your creativity.

Have fun,

Bob

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#165697 - 07/14/12 12:02 PM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Buford]
Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6514
Loc: South Louisiana
Danny C. Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 6514
Loc: South Louisiana
Mike,

Nice job and welcome to the BIAB Forum from a guy who spent a lot of time, and loved every minute of it, in Nashville while I worked for a little whiskey company located in Lynchburg Tenn.

A little note on "guitar chops"... I too for many years considered myself a rhythm guitarist but other than the obvious benefits of BIAB maybe the most unknown benefit I found was that this program will make you a better musician. I promise you if you keep that axe in your hand when you continually run through you play-list before too long you will find yourself soloing on every song in your book.

On a side note I always said when I retired I was going to move to Knoxville and sell Orange Paint! I know you get the reference.

Keep up the good work,
_________________________
Danny C.
www.dannycampo.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Danny-Campo/379776252109306?skip_nax_wizard=true

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#165698 - 07/14/12 12:35 PM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Danny C.]
Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 2957
Tommyc Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/08/11
Posts: 2957
Great first time song! Welcome to the User Showcase Forums, hope you keep on posting more! BTW I love your Band!

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#165699 - 07/14/12 01:57 PM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Tommyc]
Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 98
Loc: Nashville, TN
Mandolin Mike Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 98
Loc: Nashville, TN
Thanks for all the encouraging comments. And, especially to Hawgly for your detailed input. To answer one of your questions, I used one of the "Country Boogie" styles on top of the chords I typed into the chord chart in BIAB. I'm not sure if that is RealBand, RealTracks at this early stage of my learning! I'm guessing it is RealTrack...

I am trying at this stage to determine the importance of RealBand is in what I'm doing. It looks like a DAW to me, at least for the most part. Last night I tried importing chords from a recent recording I had done previously and it didn't interpret that chords correctly...so, that program is still somewhat of a mystery at this point. And, again, I need to find out what I need it for, since I plan to use Cubase as my DAW...

Also, thanks for all the mixing pointers. I have already incorporated a few of the things you mentioned with regard to my mix, and the changes are making a big difference to my ears.

Upward and onward we go!!!!
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Living in The Music City

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#165700 - 07/14/12 02:28 PM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Mandolin Mike]
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Buford Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Mike...You can stick with the main Band In A Box program initially since it's a bit simpler to create projects quickly and has a shorter learning curve. You can do a LOT with that all by itself. RealBand is a version of PG Music's flagship sequencer (DAW), Power Tracks Pro Audio. Real Tracks are the actual instrument files (WMA), guitar, fiddle, banjo, bass, keys, etc used to create a Real Style. Similarly, Real Drums are the actual drum track files used when creating a Real Style. Confused yet?

You can use Cubase as your DAW since you're comfortable with that. Once you have a BIAB song where you want it, open your Cubase prog and setup a new project. Leave Cubase open, and go to BIAB and grab the COMBO button with your mouse, at the top of your BIAB screen, and drag it over to your tracks window in Cubase. BIAB will begin exporting it's tracks to Cubase and complete in a few minutes. If you want individual BIAB tracks you'll have to click on the DAW button in BIAB and change the export settings to create individual tracks, otherwise BIAB will send a stereo two-track mix to Cubase. Once you have the tracks in Cubase then you know where to go from there.

You can export BIAB tracks to Cubase as stereo or mono by changing the DAW settings in BIAB. Regardless, you should "normalize" the tracks in BIAB before exporting them by opening the little mixer window in BIAB and setting the pan for all the tracks at CENTER. Set the volumes at max (127) and turn off all the BIAB reverb.

It's pretty easy to get BIAB tracks into your favorite DAW. Later you can learn to use RealBand if you like the way it works. RealBand can also export individual tracks to be added to your Cubase project. Just play with it and take as many of the video lessions as you can stand. It will all start to make sense in short order.

Keep 'em coming,
Bob

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#165701 - 07/14/12 02:52 PM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Buford]
Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 98
Loc: Nashville, TN
Mandolin Mike Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 98
Loc: Nashville, TN
Thanks, again Hawgly...I found that little COMBO button thingy last night. Very helpful. Your tips are most appreciated!
_________________________
Living in The Music City

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#165702 - 07/14/12 03:30 PM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Mandolin Mike]
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Buford Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Mike...you're welcome. And sorry if I'm giving you too much info. Not sure what you already know. But I also know it's easier to get started with a bit of direction. Sounds like you're making some good progress by just experimenting with the program. Can't wait to hear more of your work. Also I'd like to hear your edited version of "River of Time" when you're done with it. It's a good song.

Bob

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#165703 - 07/14/12 07:03 PM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Buford]
Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4414
Sundance Offline
Veteran

Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 4414
Welcome Mike,

From one vols fan to another let's hope Dooley does better this year. Go Vols!

Realband is very useful for regenerating and editting RTs. I would use it as my final daw but it doesn't work with some of my plugins.

Thanks for sharing.

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#165704 - 07/14/12 10:47 PM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Sundance]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7691
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 7691
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
hey Mike..

it didn't take you long to jump in! Your song has a real live feel to it. I can imagine myself sitting at a table with some friends as you play in the corner.

The place in the song that stops dead is pretty impressive for a first song. That requires song manipulation tricks that most people don't discover until well after the first song.

(Maybe you edited it in another program, but its still a cool effect)

Your song had a Neil Young vibe going, and I enjoyed it. Keep up the good work. I look forward to hearing more!


----edited for typos-----
"keep up the goose work???"


Edited by Pat Marr (07/15/12 12:21 AM)

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#165705 - 07/15/12 12:13 AM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
Mike, as a first effort, this was absolutely fine. As you move forward and play with mixing, when to boost and cut, all of that, you'll get more comfortable with the process and you will see your learning curve. Just like piano, guitar, bass whatever instruments show improvement the more you do it, so does songwriting and production technique.

Once you get familiar with the software and move over to the Real Band side of the world, your stuff will take on a "fullness". I suggest you do that as soon as you can because there is another learning curve when you get to Real Band. It isn't as steep as that first dive into the pool, but there is one. You came in at a stronger level than a lot of people. I look back to my first BIAB song now and laugh when I play it back because as time passed I learned a lot more about mixing and production, and still have many mountains to climb in the learning process!

Welcome to the club. This becomes a haven similar to the local AA chapters eventually.

Say it with me.

"My name is Mike and I am a Real Band-oholic."

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#165706 - 07/15/12 12:35 AM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Mandolin Mike]
Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 1352
F.M.M. Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 1352
welcome to the user showcase mike i like it good first time effort keep it up good mix i love my biab thanks for sharing eric
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#165707 - 07/15/12 05:47 AM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: F.M.M.]
Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 2686
Loc: Murgon Queensland Australia
Rob4580 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 2686
Loc: Murgon Queensland Australia
Good job Mike and welcome.

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#165708 - 07/15/12 08:01 PM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Rob4580]
Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 98
Loc: Nashville, TN
Mandolin Mike Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 98
Loc: Nashville, TN
Ok - I've remixed based on Bob's (Hawgley's) input...

Also, I re-recorded some guitar parts and added a couple of harmony vocals. I think there might be a way to do the vocal harmonies in BIAB, but I haven't found out how just yet.


Here's the link to the song again:

Revised River Of Time

This is my final version as I feel the need to move on from this project for now and want to start something new now.

Thanks again for all your kind words and suggestions!
_________________________
Living in The Music City

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#165709 - 07/15/12 08:55 PM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Mandolin Mike]
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
Buford Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 727
Loc: Colorado
WOW...that's a HUGE difference!! Good job. You're on your way, man. Can't wait to hear more songs from you. Keep 'em coming.

Bob

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#165710 - 07/15/12 10:26 PM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Buford]
Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 1738
Loc: Canyon Lake, TX
Steve Young Offline
Expert

Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 1738
Loc: Canyon Lake, TX
Mike,

Welcome to the forum! And you are off to a great start! Good job on this one. I am looking forward to hearing more from you in the future!

Steve
_________________________
Steve Young
Music
"In order to compose, all you need to do is remember a tune that nobody else has thought of." - Robert Schumann

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#165711 - 07/17/12 01:57 PM [User Showcase] Re: My First BIAB Song [Re: Steve Young]
Registered: 04/01/11
Posts: 977
Loc: Maryland
SpaceDog Offline
Expert

Registered: 04/01/11
Posts: 977
Loc: Maryland
Mike,
Welcome to the forum! I couldn't agree more with the others, nice job.
SpaceDog

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