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#381508 - 12/10/16 07:23 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe
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pghboemike Offline
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SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING
analysis of hit songs by Robin Frederick with the intent of improving your songwriting skills and of course selling books
her websites
my song coach
songwriting tips and inspiration
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#381602 - 12/10/16 04:25 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: pghboemike]
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sslechta Offline
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Thanks! Good resource.
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#381628 - 12/10/16 06:08 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: pghboemike]
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edshaw Offline
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Yes, thanks for the find.
Never knew such things were available.
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#381685 - 12/11/16 06:11 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: pghboemike]
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Guitarhacker Offline
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Cool stuff and good info.

Her books are well written and filled with good tips. Reading them won't automatically make you a hit writer but it will help to point you in the right direction. The rest is up to you.
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#381697 - 12/11/16 07:03 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: pghboemike]
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Janice & Bud Offline
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Just curious...anybody recall any of her hits? I see lots of film, tv, etc.
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#381751 - 12/11/16 12:37 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: Janice & Bud]
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BigSugarHopkins Offline
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Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
Just curious...anybody recall any of her hits? I see lots of film, tv, etc.


Here are some credits http://www.allmusic.com/artist/robin-frederick-mn0000301240/credits
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#381776 - 12/11/16 02:29 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: pghboemike]
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Janice & Bud Offline
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Thanks. I had found the credits. I just assumed since she writes about how to write a hit song she might have had some. Guess I need to broaden my definition of "hit" or listen to more genres! smile
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#381797 - 12/11/16 03:55 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: Janice & Bud]
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90 dB Offline
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Originally Posted By: Janice & Bud
Thanks. I had found the credits. I just assumed since she writes about how to write a hit song she might have had some. Guess I need to broaden my definition of "hit" or listen to more genres! smile





laugh
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#381812 - 12/11/16 05:07 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: pghboemike]
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Guitarhacker Offline
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I see that most of her credits list her as Executive Producer. I assume that means she's in charge of selecting and approving music for the projects she's involved in and making sure it fits properly with the story line in the movie or TV show.

With as many projects as she has worked on, I'd say that qualifies her to write on what film & TV producers are looking for and how best to pitch it to the producer of a show. Her book "Shortcuts to songwriting for film & TV" is packed with excellent tips and advice. It's not geared in any way shape or form towards writing a hit song for Nashville or LA.

Some time back she was a frequent guest on Michael's Taxi TV show. Don't know if she still is as I haven't been watching it much this year.

If you're interested in writing for film & tv, you can't go wrong reading her book on the topic.
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#381820 - 12/11/16 05:45 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: Guitarhacker]
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Jim Fogle Offline
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Visit her website and you'll discover she currently is on Taxi's board and an executive producer with Rhino Records. She started with Disney making children's records and recorded two ambient / new age cds.
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#381833 - 12/11/16 07:14 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: pghboemike]
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JohnJohnJohn Offline
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All her books are great! She has written books on hit songwriting as well as writing for film & TV. I own everything she has written and you will get way more than your money's worth by reading her books!

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#381843 - 12/11/16 10:02 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: pghboemike]
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Matcham Offline
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I've followed Robin Frederick on Taxi for a while. IMHO her insights into what executives and, ultimately, audiences want are gold if a market is what you are looking for.

What I'm not so sure about is a methodical approach to creation eg http://mysongcoach.com/write-a-song-in-ten-steps/ Creativity and critique are very different beasts. Sure you can start with a song title as an idea but I'm sure most people will find themselves in a wilderness of their own making in a very short period of time. Once you've navigated your way out with a song then maybe you can polish it using the excellent advice she has to offer.

Maybe I'm being too hard. Her songwriting tips might be good for those new to the game.
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#381863 - 12/12/16 04:50 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: pghboemike]
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rockstar_not Offline
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I bought her main book offered by Taxi about 5, maybe 7 or 8 years ago. No I haven't written any hits. But the simple exposure to and collection of song forms with examples of hits of the day and over time has helped me write songs that I enjoy listening to. Narcissistic? Perhaps.

The main thing I have learned as a hobbyist songwriter is to practice it just like practicing an instrument. Try many different forms and styles. You can develop skills as well as ruts. Reading books like hers and applying the bits of learning helps to develop the discipline and skill and 'ear'.

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#381878 - 12/12/16 05:51 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: pghboemike]
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Janice & Bud Offline
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For some inexplicable reason I thought that given the title to her article was "Secrets of Hit Song Writing" then she might have written one. I wasn't suggesting she didn't have huge cred - I was, obviously without success, trying to introduce a spot of levity. smile

Heck, I'm in no position to genuinely criticize any efforts that might help with songwriting. I write 6-8 a year and for me it's akin to passing a kidney stone.

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#381881 - 12/12/16 06:11 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: pghboemike]
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Guitarhacker Offline
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I guess it goes back to an earlier statement about expanding or at least reconsidering the definition of "hit".

I have a few songs playing in film and TV and they are mostly chopped-up cues.

Successes? yes... Hits? by no means.

My loose definition of a hit is one that a lot of people like when they hear it, regardless of how it does on the industry charts. If it hits the heart of the listener, that's what really matters.
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#381913 - 12/12/16 08:48 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: Guitarhacker]
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chulaivet1966 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker
My loose definition of a hit is one that a lot of people like when they hear it, regardless of how it does on the industry charts. If it hits the heart of the listener, that's what really matters.


That's pretty much how I see it.

Given my level of (non-existent) popularity I'm very grateful if anyone takes the time to listen to my efforts.
Should one actually comment favorably....color me elated and would thank them graciously.

Admittedly, I highly doubt any of my songs would ever have any mass appeal.
I only write for pure enjoyment/creative therapy and try to express myself in a way that meets my personal creative expectations knowing the commercial world will never be interested.

Back to it....


Edited by chulaivet1966 (12/12/16 10:24 AM)
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#382002 - 12/12/16 02:05 PM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: pghboemike]
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David Snyder Offline
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Here is another angle:

There are some people who are really great at studying hit songs and mapping out the common denominators they have found in these songs, and presenting some of the formulas they have found.

I think of these folks as educators and I think they serve a very valuable service.

Most great songwriters I know are practically inarticulate when asked they how they wrote hit songs. They give invaluable tips like:

"I don't know. I just sit down and do it."

Or as one very famous rock songwriter advised me once: "Just make sure you don't try and make too much sense. Rock and roll is not supposed to make sense."

Ok!!! Thanks!!!

So I don't necessarily need for a person to be a hit writer in order to respect them as a musical scholar and educator of hit song formulas.
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#382097 - 12/13/16 05:02 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: pghboemike]
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Guitarhacker Offline
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There's an old saying, that goes like this:

Those that can't... teach.

I don't think it fits in this particular case, but it is true in many cases. Colleges are filled with such folks. They are called "professors".
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#382109 - 12/13/16 06:01 AM [Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production] Re: SECRETS OF HIT SONGWRITING maybe [Re: pghboemike]
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Kemmrich Offline
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I quite like that first song on the list: Beautiful Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G70dtJRr6nc -- Seems like right up my alley and I have never heard of him before.

I think for this year's FAWM.org, I am going to find songs I like a lot and write songs in those styles (using youtube and chords to get feel and rhythm). One of Robin's songwriting tips is to write "ghost" songs to hits and things you like. Then, of course, you have to change the melody so you are not totally stealing.
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