|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
Since this new forum is for songwriting tips and tricks, I thought I might offer one or two from my limited experience. They may not work for you, but hopefully someone might find some benefit. Start with the Hook. Write backwards from there. In other words, make your statement in the Hook, then fill in the story in the verses. The Hook is what people remember and sing along with. Think about your favorite songs- what draws you into them? What do you repeat every time it comes around? The Hook. This method is similar to one novel-writing method, where the novelist starts with the climax and works backward from there. The Hook can be a clever play on words, a guitar riff (i.e. “Satisfaction”), or an anthemic repeat (i.e. “We Will Rock You”, “Give Peace A Chance”), but it must be catchy. The “catchy” is usually the hard part for me.  Merry Christmas! Regards, Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,335
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,335 |
Since this new forum is for songwriting tips and tricks, I thought I might offer one or two from my limited experience. They may not work for you, but hopefully someone might find some benefit. Start with the Hook. Write backwards from there.Regards,Bob Mornin' Captain.... I have completed songs with the above approach. Frequently the "hook" will be part of pre-chorus/chorus lyrics and will actually be defining lyric of the song subject anyway. For me.... most of the time I come up with a song subject. Sometimes the hook comes first, sometimes I start fleshing out the lyrical story lines and then the hook will come to me. If the mood of the song subject has some tension then I'd likely start with minor chord but the chorus could get a major tonality. But, I've written from all approaches already mentioned whether it be hook first, subject first, music first then subject comes to mind. I am able to hear music/arrangements in my head during writing or contemplating the direction of a song effort. It's all good...it just isn't easy. The more I know about a song subject the easier it comes to me. The less I know, the more I have to really concentrate on the creative process of originality with lyrics and phrasing. I have to work at it to get it to my satisfaction.  Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 12/19/16 04:56 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 11,050
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 11,050 |
Indeed. Excellent points.
It's called "the hook" because that's what it does.... it hooks you. It sinks it's claws in and holds on.
When people on the street are asked to "sing a song" they know, most will head right into the chorus and nail the hook. It's the part that we remember the best because it is catchy and easy to remember.
Normally the hook is found in the chorus but not always. Often, the hook can also be the title, but again, not always.
As Bob pointed out, the hook doesn't have to be in the verbal part of the song. When I say the name of a song.... BAKER STREET for example. If you know that song, the first thing that comes to your mind is that memorable Sax riff. Most people would be very hard pressed to recall even one of the vocal lines of that song but that Sax riff is one that very few people will forget. It's the hook.
Do you want people to remember your song? If so, you need to learn the art and craft of writing a good hook. I've heard a bunch of songs without a memorable hook in them. That's really not the thing you want to be doing when writing. Some times the hooks are hard to create, as Bob mentioned, but in other cases, they just seem to come naturally and so easy.
More than once, I have done what Bob suggests in his post. Start with the title or the hook and flesh out the verses and chorus from there. Working backwards is a good idea at times. Most of the time I do start my songs with the chorus and the hook/title. That seems to be the "easy" way for me. Verses are after the fact, and for me, it's harder to create a good solid series of verse. But that's a topic for another thread.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,299
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,299 |
Since this new forum is for songwriting tips and tricks, I thought I might offer one or two from my limited experience. They may not work for you, but hopefully someone might find some benefit. Start with the Hook. Write backwards from there. In other words, make your statement in the Hook, then fill in the story in the verses. The Hook is what people remember and sing along with. Think about your favorite songs- what draws you into them? What do you repeat every time it comes around? The Hook. This method is similar to one novel-writing method, where the novelist starts with the climax and works backward from there. The Hook can be a clever play on words, a guitar riff (i.e. “Satisfaction”), or an anthemic repeat (i.e. “We Will Rock You”, “Give Peace A Chance”), but it must be catchy. The “catchy” is usually the hard part for me. Merry Christmas! Regards, Bob I'm printing that out! As simple as it is, I forget that too often to not have it in front of me! EXCELLENT! Thank you! BTW...this applies well to lyrics as well! I get you implied that, but I flat out said it to remind myself from time to time!
Last edited by HearToLearn; 12/19/16 04:52 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,566
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,566 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
I would call that a "treble" hook. Merry Christmas! Regards, Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
|
eddie1261
Unregistered
|
I also think about something I call "turn" of the phrase, like the Eagles "Don't let the sound of your own WHEELS DRIVE you crazy", because wheels are on a car and you drive a car. There are more like that but I just woke up....
One of my new songs has the phrase "It's not easy remembering how to forget". See? Remember vs forget. Antonyms.
Floyd's "trying to remember the feeling, (of) feeling nothing at all." Feeling and not feeling. Antonyms.
A song I wrote about 25 years ago had a chorus that was a call and response type thing where the start of the line was "Kiss you all over", but it didn't mean "all over your body", but that was not clear until the end of the chorus where I say "Kiss you all over, kiss you all over again", so "all over" meant repeat the action. I named that a "wraparound lyric" because it wrapped from the end of one line into the start of the next.
There are SO many innovative ways to do this, and it's YOUR song, so do what you want!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,349
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 16,349 |
I'm light years from being a prolific writer. However, for the songs that I've written or co-written that I consider to be good efforts the hook has invariably come first. And most of them have come while mountain biking. For the two of us mountain biking on technical (tough) trails is almost Zen like, i.e., the more we focus on the trail the more free we become. It's at these moments that a hook will come to mind -- one that often has nothing to do with where we are riding.
A few years ago we were riding a trail that, in large, consisted of a course that the two of us had raced on many times over the years. I was thinking about how much more fun I was having than when I was suffering like a dog in a race and into my head popped "The Outskirts of Fun" which became one of our country writes.
Now were it just as simple to take that hook and create a finished song...I'm very slow. Janice could create a boat load of melodies in the time it takes me to write one lyric.
Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! A few of our videos are here on our website: https://www.janiceandbud.com/our-music.html
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
"But, I've written from all approaches already mentioned whether it be hook first, subject first, music first then subject comes to mind.
I am able to hear music/arrangements in my head during writing or contemplating the direction of a song effort."
Mornin' Cpl.,
That's the fun part for me too. Imagining the song before picking up the guitar and making it tangible.
Merry Christmas and Semper Fi
"Good night, Chesty, wherever you are"
Regards,
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,139 |
"I'm light years from being a prolific writer. However, for the songs that I've written or co-written that I consider to be good efforts the hook has invariably come first. And most of them have come while mountain biking. For the two of us mountain biking on technical (tough) trails is almost Zen like, i.e., the more we focus on the trail the more free we become. It's at these moments that a hook will come to mind -- one that often has nothing to do with where we are riding." Ah.....you're hearing the voices too! Merry Christmas I75!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,335
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,335 |
Mornin' Cpl., That's the fun part for me too. Imagining the song before picking up the guitar and making it tangible. Merry Christmas and Semper Fi "Good night, Chesty, wherever you are".Regards, Bob Haha....reveille Captain... I totally agree...the imagining of a newly chosen subject to write about is what gets my mind going. (more slowly than I like in most cases) I'd say all my songs reflect different subjects and my take on certain aspects of life or my attitude toward them. (Yeah...I'm sure Brother Chesty is out there somewhere setting a good example for all Marines. :)) Back to it....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 11 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
XPro Styles PAK 11 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 (and higher) is here with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 31 RealTracks/RealDrums!
Guess who’s back again? That’s right! It’s our XPro Styles PAK’s triumphant return with the 11th edition in this series! 100 new styles are coming your way spread across the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres. And this edition's wildcard genre explores the immense and far-reaching catalogue of electronic music! The included 31 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1-11 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 11 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2026 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 22 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2026 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
It’s time to celebrate! Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Band-in-a-Box® is here, and we've got 200 brand-new styles coming your way!
No Xtra Styles PAK is complete without the classic rock & pop, jazz, and country volumes you know and love, and we’ve got plenty to share, with 150 styles spread across too many genres to list! Of course, it also wouldn’t be complete with our special wildcard volume to add a little spice and pizzazz to the mix. This year, because we loved it so much the first time, we’ve decided to make the second iteration of our SynthMaster volume, full of new sounds, interesting genres, and 50 engaging styles, all making use of the diverse SynthMaster plugin! Here you can find genres such as airy yacht rock, sultry electrotango, and even some synth soca funk. Don’t wait, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 22 today!
In this PAK you can find: dulcet folk ballads, funky gospel country, Brazilian jazz fusion, upbeat 1980s pop, classic Americana, a plethora of breezy bossa novas, indie singer-songwriter, scintillating synthwave, exuberant electronica, and many, many more!
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1-22 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 22 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 22.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 22 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 22 requires the 2026 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 11 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
XPro Styles PAK 11 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 (and higher) is here with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 31 RealTracks/RealDrums!
Guess who’s back again? That’s right! It’s our XPro Styles PAK’s triumphant return with the 11th edition in this series! 100 new styles are coming your way spread across the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres. And this edition's wildcard genre explores the immense and far-reaching catalogue of electronic music! The included 31 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1-11 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 11 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2026 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 22 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2026 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
It’s time to celebrate! Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Band-in-a-Box® is here, and we've got 200 brand-new styles coming your way!
No Xtra Styles PAK is complete without the classic rock & pop, jazz, and country volumes you know and love, and we’ve got plenty to share, with 150 styles spread across too many genres to list! Of course, it also wouldn’t be complete with our special wildcard volume to add a little spice and pizzazz to the mix. This year, because we loved it so much the first time, we’ve decided to make the second iteration of our SynthMaster volume, full of new sounds, interesting genres, and 50 engaging styles, all making use of the diverse SynthMaster plugin! Here you can find genres such as airy yacht rock, sultry electrotango, and even some synth soca funk. Don’t wait, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 22 today!
In this PAK you can find: dulcet folk ballads, funky gospel country, Brazilian jazz fusion, upbeat 1980s pop, classic Americana, a plethora of breezy bossa novas, indie singer-songwriter, scintillating synthwave, exuberant electronica, and many, many more!
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1-22 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 22 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 22.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 22 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 22 requires the 2026 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Peter Gannon Talks Band-in-a-Box with zplane
zplane recently interviewed Peter Gannon, the founder and creator of Band-in-a-Box, about the software's early days, what sets it apart from AI, how zplane's audio algorithms are used in Band-in-a-Box, and more!
Special thanks to the team at zplane for their continued support.
Check out the full interview here: https://products.zplane.de/blog/peter-gannon-interview-pg-music
Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PDT today!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the amazing new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. View the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to transcribe an entire track or transcribe specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Mac® to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,668
Posts808,230
Members40,183
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean