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Since this new forum is for songwriting tips and tricks, I thought I might offer one or two from my limited experience. They may not work for you, but hopefully someone might find some benefit. Start with the Hook. Write backwards from there. In other words, make your statement in the Hook, then fill in the story in the verses. The Hook is what people remember and sing along with. Think about your favorite songs- what draws you into them? What do you repeat every time it comes around? The Hook. This method is similar to one novel-writing method, where the novelist starts with the climax and works backward from there. The Hook can be a clever play on words, a guitar riff (i.e. “Satisfaction”), or an anthemic repeat (i.e. “We Will Rock You”, “Give Peace A Chance”), but it must be catchy. The “catchy” is usually the hard part for me.  Merry Christmas! Regards, Bob
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Since this new forum is for songwriting tips and tricks, I thought I might offer one or two from my limited experience. They may not work for you, but hopefully someone might find some benefit. Start with the Hook. Write backwards from there.Regards,Bob Mornin' Captain.... I have completed songs with the above approach. Frequently the "hook" will be part of pre-chorus/chorus lyrics and will actually be defining lyric of the song subject anyway. For me.... most of the time I come up with a song subject. Sometimes the hook comes first, sometimes I start fleshing out the lyrical story lines and then the hook will come to me. If the mood of the song subject has some tension then I'd likely start with minor chord but the chorus could get a major tonality. But, I've written from all approaches already mentioned whether it be hook first, subject first, music first then subject comes to mind. I am able to hear music/arrangements in my head during writing or contemplating the direction of a song effort. It's all good...it just isn't easy. The more I know about a song subject the easier it comes to me. The less I know, the more I have to really concentrate on the creative process of originality with lyrics and phrasing. I have to work at it to get it to my satisfaction.  Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 12/19/16 04:56 AM.
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Indeed. Excellent points.
It's called "the hook" because that's what it does.... it hooks you. It sinks it's claws in and holds on.
When people on the street are asked to "sing a song" they know, most will head right into the chorus and nail the hook. It's the part that we remember the best because it is catchy and easy to remember.
Normally the hook is found in the chorus but not always. Often, the hook can also be the title, but again, not always.
As Bob pointed out, the hook doesn't have to be in the verbal part of the song. When I say the name of a song.... BAKER STREET for example. If you know that song, the first thing that comes to your mind is that memorable Sax riff. Most people would be very hard pressed to recall even one of the vocal lines of that song but that Sax riff is one that very few people will forget. It's the hook.
Do you want people to remember your song? If so, you need to learn the art and craft of writing a good hook. I've heard a bunch of songs without a memorable hook in them. That's really not the thing you want to be doing when writing. Some times the hooks are hard to create, as Bob mentioned, but in other cases, they just seem to come naturally and so easy.
More than once, I have done what Bob suggests in his post. Start with the title or the hook and flesh out the verses and chorus from there. Working backwards is a good idea at times. Most of the time I do start my songs with the chorus and the hook/title. That seems to be the "easy" way for me. Verses are after the fact, and for me, it's harder to create a good solid series of verse. But that's a topic for another thread.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Since this new forum is for songwriting tips and tricks, I thought I might offer one or two from my limited experience. They may not work for you, but hopefully someone might find some benefit. Start with the Hook. Write backwards from there. In other words, make your statement in the Hook, then fill in the story in the verses. The Hook is what people remember and sing along with. Think about your favorite songs- what draws you into them? What do you repeat every time it comes around? The Hook. This method is similar to one novel-writing method, where the novelist starts with the climax and works backward from there. The Hook can be a clever play on words, a guitar riff (i.e. “Satisfaction”), or an anthemic repeat (i.e. “We Will Rock You”, “Give Peace A Chance”), but it must be catchy. The “catchy” is usually the hard part for me. Merry Christmas! Regards, Bob I'm printing that out! As simple as it is, I forget that too often to not have it in front of me! EXCELLENT! Thank you! BTW...this applies well to lyrics as well! I get you implied that, but I flat out said it to remind myself from time to time!
Last edited by HearToLearn; 12/19/16 04:52 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I would call that a "treble" hook. Merry Christmas! Regards, Bob
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I also think about something I call "turn" of the phrase, like the Eagles "Don't let the sound of your own WHEELS DRIVE you crazy", because wheels are on a car and you drive a car. There are more like that but I just woke up....
One of my new songs has the phrase "It's not easy remembering how to forget". See? Remember vs forget. Antonyms.
Floyd's "trying to remember the feeling, (of) feeling nothing at all." Feeling and not feeling. Antonyms.
A song I wrote about 25 years ago had a chorus that was a call and response type thing where the start of the line was "Kiss you all over", but it didn't mean "all over your body", but that was not clear until the end of the chorus where I say "Kiss you all over, kiss you all over again", so "all over" meant repeat the action. I named that a "wraparound lyric" because it wrapped from the end of one line into the start of the next.
There are SO many innovative ways to do this, and it's YOUR song, so do what you want!
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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I'm light years from being a prolific writer. However, for the songs that I've written or co-written that I consider to be good efforts the hook has invariably come first. And most of them have come while mountain biking. For the two of us mountain biking on technical (tough) trails is almost Zen like, i.e., the more we focus on the trail the more free we become. It's at these moments that a hook will come to mind -- one that often has nothing to do with where we are riding.
A few years ago we were riding a trail that, in large, consisted of a course that the two of us had raced on many times over the years. I was thinking about how much more fun I was having than when I was suffering like a dog in a race and into my head popped "The Outskirts of Fun" which became one of our country writes.
Now were it just as simple to take that hook and create a finished song...I'm very slow. Janice could create a boat load of melodies in the time it takes me to write one lyric.
Bud
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"But, I've written from all approaches already mentioned whether it be hook first, subject first, music first then subject comes to mind.
I am able to hear music/arrangements in my head during writing or contemplating the direction of a song effort."
Mornin' Cpl.,
That's the fun part for me too. Imagining the song before picking up the guitar and making it tangible.
Merry Christmas and Semper Fi
"Good night, Chesty, wherever you are"
Regards,
Bob
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"I'm light years from being a prolific writer. However, for the songs that I've written or co-written that I consider to be good efforts the hook has invariably come first. And most of them have come while mountain biking. For the two of us mountain biking on technical (tough) trails is almost Zen like, i.e., the more we focus on the trail the more free we become. It's at these moments that a hook will come to mind -- one that often has nothing to do with where we are riding." Ah.....you're hearing the voices too! Merry Christmas I75!
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Mornin' Cpl., That's the fun part for me too. Imagining the song before picking up the guitar and making it tangible. Merry Christmas and Semper Fi "Good night, Chesty, wherever you are".Regards, Bob Haha....reveille Captain... I totally agree...the imagining of a newly chosen subject to write about is what gets my mind going. (more slowly than I like in most cases) I'd say all my songs reflect different subjects and my take on certain aspects of life or my attitude toward them. (Yeah...I'm sure Brother Chesty is out there somewhere setting a good example for all Marines. :)) Back to it....
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