Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193 |
Howdy, folks... Amongst whatever comments and/or critiques anyone may have about this song, I would ask sincerely if any of you could direct me to documentation about how to mix tracks in a recording. The subject and practice is bewildering to me. In the sequencer, when I increase the instrument track volume, it "clips" the meter, which causes me to correct the volume by lowering it, and that makes the track hard to hear. So, I try techniques such as compression, which increases the volume until it "clips", so again I lower the volume and can't hear the track. I end up going 'round, and 'round, and 'round on that frustrating circuit. And then, I try panning the instruments, but they seem to lose "body" and volume as I pan to the left or right, until, finally, I admit I get irritable with the whole process and "take what I can get." Hah! Good thing I live alone, huh?! Can't throw things at myself!  So, anyone's help would be deeply appreciated. Any old way, here's the song info: Style is J!MANCNI.STY (Jazz-Mancni2 - Slow Pop Ballad) Style MIDI Instruments are : Acoustic Piano (1), Acoustic Guitar (26), Slow Strings (50), RealTracks in song: 398:Bass, Acoustic, Jazz Paul Sw 140 ('2' only) RealDrums in Song: JazzBrushes2FeelAtB: a: Brushes, Kick b: Brushes Soloist is #490, Sax, Alto, Jazz Ballad Sw 085, courtesy of Mr. P. J. Perry. I used a Miroslav Phlharmonik patch for the tremolo strings, Edirol Orchestral for the slow strings section; a steel guitar patch from Edirol Super Quartet and an upright piano patch from Kontakt 4/Vir2 Instruments. The melody was originally patched to a bandeneon from Edirol VSC to lend a "French" sound, or feel, to the song. The vocal track was provided by a singer named Courtney Grace who I found on the Web. I e-mailed to her an mp3 of the song, she recorded it herself...and "nailed it" the first time around. You can check out her songwriting and performance artistry at http://courtneygracemusic.com/Thank you for reading this and listening to the song! http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1321235&content=musicSincerely, "bluage" ------------------------------------------------------- VERSE ONE How do you know when someone loves you? How should the words sound when you hear them? And though you feel like falling It’s such a long way down… VERSE TWO Because he tells you that he needs you Is that what makes a friend, a lover? Things happen, oh, so, swiftly No time for answers to, questions you’ll never ask him… BRIDGE He sends you flowers He holds the door And when you’re dancing You own the floor Why break the spell? You know him well Yet, doubts still linger Is he enough? If times get tough Will romance fade? VERSE THREE How do you know when someone loves you? How should the words sound when you hear them? And though you feel like falling It’s such a long way down… VERSE FOUR Because he tells you that he needs you Is that what makes a friend, a lover? Things happen, oh, so swiftly No time for answers to, questions you’ll never ask him…
Last edited by bluage; 01/27/17 09:56 PM.
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,822
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,822 |
This was an excellent backtrack and the vocal was excellent. Perfect voice for the song.
Mixing is an art unto itself. Getting the volume levels under control. I have found grouping the tracks i.e. backtracks and separate track for the ones I create allows me to balance the final mix. I found the tutorials for Reaper helpful with this..
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,548
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,548 |
Excellent song and Courtney Grace is an excellent vocalist. Very enjoyable.
This mix sounds pretty nice to me.
Advice. Remember the vocal is always the king (most important and prominent track). Everything else is there to support the vocal.
Instead of turning up a track, listen closely to what may be covering the track. Turn other tracks down just a bit rather than raising volumes. Alternately, if two tracks (instruments) are competing for the same audio frequencies, reducing those frequencies with an equalizer for one instrument makes room for the other. Panning instruments also helps create space.
There are many resources for mixing available online and through YouTube and many are free. You can also search about and find out a lot through your own research. But I recommend purchase of the mixing courses by David Wills of Proaudiodvds. Check out some of his sample video clips on YouTube. He is a very experienced and capable teacher. Be aware that he has courses for live sound as well as recording sound. You will need to be sure you are looking at the recording sound course. He has a very engaging style and it's as if he is sitting in the room with you showing you mixing step by step, one on one.
Charlie
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 01/28/17 02:38 AM.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,247
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,247 |
Loren,
For all the "issues" that you describe, I was expecting...who knows....
This is really nice!
A beautifully written song. And a gorgeous vocal. Courtney does, indeed, nail that...
Your mix is quite good. Certainly not lacking in volume (as I listen - compared to the level I listen to others)... a hair lower, maybe, but not much. The panning, too, seems good. Good levels on the drums, bass and piano. And strings when they come in. The vocal is very well mixed (and processed - did you get that dry?)
I would suggest that the Showcase is the wrong place if you want a "lively" discussion about mixing and panning. There are many of the forum folks - with a wide range of experience - that do not pay much attention to the Showcase.
If you start a thread in the "Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production" with an appropriate title ("Mixing and Panning Help?" - something like that...) - I'm sure you would get a wild ride of a discussion...for that matter, you might want to start two different threads - one on mixing, one on panning (there have not been a lot of threads dedicated to panning).
It would help to know what DAW you are using (mention that in the new thread). At first glance, it seems like your output volume is simple set too low (as you listen on your system) - perhaps there is a setting you are overlooking (those with the same DAW could address that)... And link to the song! (or this thread) so folks have a reference (AND get to hear this!)
This is a terrific listen. I hope we get to hear much more!
floyd
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,030
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,030 |
Sounds great to me!! Beautiful song, beautiful vocal. This would be great in a film. I love this style and your vocalist is magical. GREAT STUFF!! Take care. Greg
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193 |
Good morning, "Scott C"...
Thank you for your comments, sir!
And now, humbly, I am about to reveal my profound ignorance of technical terms related to audio: what is a "backtrack?"
It's okay to laugh, 'cuz I'm laughing at myself!
Gratefully,
"bluage"
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193 |
Hello, "Charlie Fogle"...
"Turn other tracks down just a bit rather than raising volumes." That makes a whole lotta sense to me. In the wake of reading your advice, I realize now that I was pitting one track's volume against the other:
"I'm the piano! I got 88 keys, and I have a right to be heard above all else!" "Oh, yeah? Well, I'm the acoustic bass, bub, and if you can't hear me, you're lost!!!" And so on...
Okay. The vocal is king (or, queen, depending on the singer's sex!) I think what complicated things for me on this song is that it was the first time I worked with a vocal track, and it seemed to diminish the volume of the instrumental tracks.
I will go to YouTube and check out Mr. Wills' videos. Afterwards, if I have any questions, may I come back here to the forum and consult with you?
Thank you very much for the time you took to listen to the song and post such comprehensive notes for me.
Sincerely,
"bluage"
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193 |
"Greg Johnson"... It's interesting that you felt the song "would be great in a film" because that's exactly what I told Ms. Grace after I heard her vocal track for the first time. Now, I guess I gotta get busy and write a screenplay for it! Thank you, sir, for giving the song a listen. Sincerely, "bluage"
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193 |
Good afternoon, Mr. Jane...
First of all, please allow me to express my heartfelt thanks for your comprehensive feedback on the production issues I described. It inspired me to come up with a new translation of the Band-in-a-Box acronym, "BIAB": "Brother, It's All Better (now!)"
I followed your instructions and posted the thread you advised me to do in the "Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production" forum under the title, "Mixing and panning help".
Also, I'm equally grateful for your kind words about the song, and also regarding Ms. Grace's vocal track.
I wish you (and all the other respondents) well!
Truly,
Loren / a.k.a. "bluage"
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,387
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,387 |
bluage, your track sounds pretty good to me. I didn't hear much of a volume drop. And that vocal was wonderful! A video series I found on YouTube called "Produce Like A Pro" might be very helpful to you. I have found for my tracks that using a limiter in the master stereo track really helps increase volume without clipping the track. But it needs to be last in the chain of effects. But everyone has their own approach. Thanks, Torrey
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,621
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,621 |
Bluage Nice song -very sultry sound with a nice instrumental bed. Given the excellent advice already given I won't go into the mix (for what it would be worth).
Peter
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,953
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,953 |
Hello, bluage
Very nice song with beautiful melody. Courtney Grace is an excellent vocalist. I entirely agree with Charlie. I also think the vocal is always the king (most important and prominent track). Everything else is there to support the vocal. About panning I think each person has his own opinion and his own favorite, though the orchestral instruments is better on the same positions as real orchestra. About the total sound pressure level, it may be a best way to use a maximizer like Slate Digital FG-X, etc. Adjust RMS level between -10.0db to -8.0db and you will get clean tone and enough sound pressure level. Enjoyed my listen a lot.
Best regards.
Shigeki Adachi
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193 |
Hi, there, "Torrey Bliss"...
After receiving all the technical advice I asked for, I realize that I'm going to have to commit to studying music production techniques. I humbly admit that I've focused more on learning music theory so I could compose songs that are more interesting melodically and harmonically. When it comes to music production, my attitude was, "Well, I'll let someone else with more knowledge and experience deal with that."
Nonetheless, it was nice of you to listen to the song! And thanks for hipping me to the YouTube resource, which I will visit.
Thank you for your feedback!
Sincerely,
"bluage"
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193 |
Hello, Shigeki!
Your post had me running to the Web to familiarize myself with the things you mentioned concerning mixing and panning: "maximizer", "RMS", and more. But that's a good thing!
Regarding orchestral instruments placement in the mix, before I mixed my tracks I did consult some diagrams I found on the Web to learn how to approximate the spatial arrangement of instruments, so your advice was right on!
Your comments on the song and the vocalist are greatly appreciated and encouraging.
Thanks, Shigeki!
Sincerely,
"bluage"
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193 |
'ello, "PeterF"... So much of what I and others like yourself appreciate about the songs we create using Band-in-a-Box, comes from Band-in-a-Box, that I feel I should cite BIAB as my co-writer in my song credits!  Actually, I do mention my usage of BIAB where I post my songs on the Web. "Sultry" is an interesting word. Looking it up on the Web returned the following definitions: "hot with passion or anger," and "exciting or capable of exciting strong sexual desire." Yikes!  I think the vocalist, Courtney Grace, was responsible for that! Thank you, sir, for taking the time to listen to the song, and feeding back to me about it! Sincerely, "bluage"
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,964
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,964 |
The song sounds really good...very nice vocal and arrangement. Since you received a LOT of good mix info all we will add is to consider using a reference song. Meaning as you mix listen to a song which you like and is of the same genre. Adjust the volume levels to be the same and listen back and forth. Let your ears tell you how your pans, effects, etc. sound relative to the reference.
Nice listen as is!!
J&B
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193 |
How do, "Janice & Bud"! Your advice about using a "reference song” is so simple and sensible that it seems like "genius", which as far as definitions go, I interpret primarily as the ability to see things in places where no one else was looking  . I mean, really, you two, that's some hugely useful advice. The only problem is, there are so many songs that could function well as "references" that, now, I can't make up my cotton-pickin' mind  ! Actually, three specific songs come to mind: Jerry Leiber & Mike Stoller's 1969 hit sung by Peggy Lee, "Is That All There Is?", Francis Lai's theme for the 1966 film, "A Man and A Woman", and Gene Raskin's "Those Were The Days", sung by Mary Hopkin in 1968. Don't tell me, I already know! In terms of songwriting and music production expertise, I am aiming so high that if I was on a ladder, I would fall so fast, and so hard, that when I hit the ground I'd just keep going 'til I shot out of the other side of the planet. Wheeeeee! I can see the headline, now: “Composer Tunnels Through Earth After Fall From Rickety Ladder, Writes Hit Song About The Experience: ‘Down -- and Really Dirty’. But, seriously, folks, as "How Do You Know..." gave birth out of a seed, branched out of my mind and heart, and grew musical and lyrical leaves, those three songs were the ones that kept on knocking at my muse's door. I cannot tell you why. They just did, not that I was attempting consciously to emulate, imitate, or copy them, but there just was something about them -- the feel, the sound, the mood -- yes, the mood, especially -- that loomed over me and chased away everything else. Anyway, as I said, your suggestion is immediately applicable to the end I am seeking, and could mesh nicely, even, with all the other generous and comprehensive advice I've received in response to the thread that Floyd Jane advised me to start in the forum, “Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production.” Janice & Bud, thank you so much! I wish you and the rest were my next-door neighbors -- so I could steal your songs. Truly, LOREN (a.k.a. "bluage")
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 821
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 821 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
User Showcase
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193 |
Hello, Mr. Kayne...
We haven't met "on-forum" before, but thank you for listening to the song and leaving a "cool" comment about it.
I noticed that your "handle" indicated you're an "apprentice" like me -- although since I posted a call for help with mixing recordings, I feel more like a "newbie"!
What genres of music do you enjoy composing music in?
Sincerely,
LOREN (a.k.a. "bluage")
"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows® Today!
If you’ve already purchased Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®, great news—a new update is now available! This update introduces a handy new feature: a vertical cursor in the Tracks window that shows the current location across all tracks, and more.
Discover everything included in this free update and download it now at https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1124
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator
With Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®, we've introduced an exciting new feature: the AI Lyrics Generator! In this video, Tobin guides you step-by-step on how to make the most of this new tool.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins
Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows® now includes support for VST3 plugins, bringing even more creative possibilities to your music production. Join Simon as he guides you through the process in this easy-to-follow demonstration!
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
Video: Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows: Using The BB Stem Splitter!
In this video, Tobin provides a crash course on using the new BB Stem Splitter feature included in Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®. During this process he also uses the Audio Chord Wizard (ACW) and the new Equalize Tempo feature.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using the BB Stem Splitter
Check out the forum post for some optional Tips & Tricks!
Congrats to Misha (Rustyspoon)…downloaded/installed a full Audiophile 2025!
Breaking News!
We’re thrilled to announce that Rustyspoon has made PG history as the very first person to successfully complete the download and install of the full Band-in-a-Box 2025 Windows Audiophile Edition (with FLAC files)—a whopping 610GB of data!
A big shoutout to Rustyspoon for stepping up to be our test "elf!"
Thank you for your support, Rustyspoon!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows Videos
With the launch of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows, we're adding new videos to our YouTube channel. We'll also share them here once they are published so you can easily find all the Band-in-a-Box® 2025 and new Add-on videos in one place!
Whether it's a summary of the new features, demonstrations of the 202 new RealTracks, new XPro Styles PAK 8, or Xtra Styles PAKs 18, information on the 2025 49-PAK, or detailed tutorials for other Band-in-a-Box® 2025 features, we have you covered!
Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Videos - we will be updating this post as more videos are added!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until December 31, 2024! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums66
Topics84,111
Posts765,667
Members39,296
|
Most Online25,754 Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|