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#191602 - 01/23/13 01:09 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here
Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
pwarren Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
Here's a link to the 0.9 beta version of my VSTi to midi redirector . Those of you who want to try sending midi to a hardware device from BiaB while using software synths via the use DXi check box may wish to download this. Make sure you read the included text file for installation and limitations (most important it's 32bit only).

You can post results here or contact me directly by pm or e-mail.

I think you may really like this. I was personally blown away by how good the Ketron piano sounded mixed with a bunch of RTs and software generated midi voices. The ability to add HW voices really adds to BiaBs potential.

Hope you find it useful and enjoy.

Paul
_________________________
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#191603 - 01/23/13 03:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: pwarren]
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 9525
Loc: Wauconda
MusicStudent Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
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Loc: Wauconda
Quote:

Those of you who want to try sending midi to a hardware device from BiaB while using software synths via the use DXi check box may wish to download this.




Well I do believe this is exactly what we tried so hard to do about a year and a half ago when we were trying to send a midi track to drive a vocal harmonizer (VLT). Concluded at that time there was no easy way to do this.

Is this intended to work with "OutputCh" from the BIAB Perferences Menu? or must we route one of the BIAB instrument tracks? Either way, cool idea, hope to give it a try soon. I have been very ill for the past weeks but hopefully finally on the mend.

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#191604 - 01/23/13 04:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: MusicStudent]
Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
pwarren Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
Quote:

Well I do believe this is exactly what we tried so hard to do about a year and a half ago when we were trying to send a midi track to drive a vocal harmonizer (VLT). Concluded at that time there was no easy way to do this.




That's part of the motivation to do this. That and to use my SD2 at the same time as soft synths.

Quote:

Is this intended to work with "OutputCh" from the BIAB Perferences Menu? or must we route one of the BIAB instrument tracks?




It's made to work with one of the BIAB instrument tracks. It works well sending midi to my SD2. But so far I can't get my vocal processor to receive the midi.

The channel routing for sending to a vocal processor or harmonizer may be somewhat convoluted. My Voiceworks Plus listens on channel 9 but when I send midi data via the VSTi it isn't usually on channel 9. I tried a force midi channel to 9 but that didn't have the desired result. I'm going to look into it some more as I get the time. Maybe I'll need to add a channel filter to the VSTi. We'll see.

If you give it a try remember you won't hear the channel you redirect unless you have a hardware synth chained to the harmonizer. If you don't you'll need to duplicate the track you are redirecting.

Paul
_________________________
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2.BiaB Wiki

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#191605 - 01/24/13 03:42 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: pwarren]
Registered: 03/17/06
Posts: 39
Loc: Finland
popboy Offline
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Registered: 03/17/06
Posts: 39
Loc: Finland

Thank You very much for the nice and useful plugin
Midi ReDirect. Works pretty well!

Greetings,
popboy

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#191606 - 01/24/13 11:06 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: popboy]
Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
pwarren Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
Quote:


Thank You very much for the nice and useful plugin
Midi ReDirect. Works pretty well!

Greetings,
popboy




Thanks. Glad to hear it works well for you. It's always good to hear when it works on other systems as well as the one's I tested it on. I'll update the interface for a release version.
_________________________
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2.BiaB Wiki

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#191607 - 01/24/13 07:00 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: pwarren]
Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
pwarren Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
While I still consider it a beta version I have changed the UI. The color is nicer IMO. Feel free to re-download this VSTi if you want the nicer look.
_________________________
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2.BiaB Wiki

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#191608 - 01/24/13 11:08 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: pwarren]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 8013
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 8013
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Hi Paul,

I just Downloaded and installed the most recent version. Here are my results:

1) I have a midisport 2X2. No matter which port I picked, MIDI went to both of them. (the MIDI activity lights blinked on the devices hooked to both ports)

2)after swapping cables, the hardware synth played fine no matter which port's cable was plugged into it.

3) even though the voiceworks was clearly getting MIDI, whatever it was getting wasn't enough to change the chords in a chordal harmony patch. It also would not change the patch if I sent a patch change CC to it.

4) however the patch change CCs WOULD change patches on the hardware synth

5) I tried all the different MIDI settings in the voiceworks, but nothing changed in my results

but I gotta say, it is very cool to have use of my rack synth while soft synths are also playing. That's a MAJOR accomplishment! Way to go!

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#191609 - 01/25/13 08:59 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 8021
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 8021
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
I'm going to chime in here . I hope I have this right. Paul's tool is sort of like a wrapper for a HW synth. If you insert it as the chosen VSTi say for the BASS track, and assume Bass is on channel 2 still, it's only going to pass channel 2 info out to the midi port. Now being that you CAN use a soft synth in the default slot and on individual tracks try rethinking the application. Use Paul's tool as the DEFAULT synth. This will now pass all of the info out the the midi port.Set your HW synths/harmony units to the appropriate channel. Now if you want a soft synth on say the bass insert it as a track specific VSTi.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
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#191610 - 01/25/13 11:22 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: silvertones]
Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
pwarren Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
Quote:

I'm going to chime in here . I hope I have this right. Paul's tool is sort of like a wrapper for a HW synth. If you insert it as the chosen VSTi say for the BASS track, and assume Bass is on channel 2 still, it's only going to pass channel 2 info out to the midi port.




That's correct. My midi redirector will pass any midi data it receives from BiaB (the host). If it's inserted in the bass slot it will only pass channel 2 data (assuming that's what BiaB passes to it, and I've no reason to doubt that).

Quote:

Now being that you CAN use a soft synth in the default slot and on individual tracks try rethinking the application. Use Paul's tool as the DEFAULT synth. This will now pass all of the info out the the midi port.Set your HW synths/harmony units to the appropriate channel. Now if you want a soft synth on say the bass insert it as a track specific VSTi.




That's an interesting idea. One I certainly didn't think of.

In theory that should work. I wish we had a map of BiaBs internel midi (and audio) routing. Then we'd know for sure what data will be passed. I also wish I knew more about the function of Sysex data. That might be the key to getting VW to function. I will be looking into this more as I find time.

Getting back to your suggestion, I'll give it a try ASAP.
_________________________
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2.BiaB Wiki

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#191611 - 01/25/13 11:37 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
pwarren Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
Quote:

I just Downloaded and installed the most recent version. Here are my results:

1) I have a midisport 2X2. No matter which port I picked, MIDI went to both of them. (the MIDI activity lights blinked on the devices hooked to both ports)

2)after swapping cables, the hardware synth played fine no matter which port's cable was plugged into it.





To make sure I have this correct you see both ports in the combo box and they have different names right?

If it distinguishes at the enumeration level I'd have thought it should distinguish at the send level. If it doesn't I'll have to assume something else, like Sysex data for example, sets the port at that level. If so it'll be hard for me to code since I don't have a hardware device with multiple midi ports. I'd nned to work with you directly on that. Would you be willing?

Anyway, I'm glad you find the ability to use hard and soft synths together a useful fuction.

Quote:

3) even though the voiceworks was clearly getting MIDI, whatever it was getting wasn't enough to change the chords in a chordal harmony patch. It also would not change the patch if I sent a patch change CC to it.

4) however the patch change CCs WOULD change patches on the hardware synth

5) I tried all the different MIDI settings in the voiceworks, but nothing changed in my results




Well you've got better results from Voiceworks than I have so far. I haven't been able to get it to receive midi at all. I was going to try some other things this weekend.

As to the patch change cc's, I get the same results. My SD2 changes patches as expected. I wonder if it 'eats' the patch change data. Is your hardware synth ahead of the VWs in the chain? Mine is and I was going to remove it and try the VWs alone. That wil tell me a lot about what's going on.
_________________________
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2.BiaB Wiki

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#191612 - 01/25/13 12:31 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: pwarren]
Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
pwarren Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
As far as I can tell the VWs harmonizer should not require any SysEx data to work. That's used only for setting the unit up and reading the presets etc. That can, and probably should, be done first with either the front panel or the software editor.

If anyone has a different understanding of this please let me know. Thanks.
_________________________
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#191613 - 01/25/13 01:24 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: pwarren]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 8021
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Offline
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Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 8021
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
Two types of midi data:
1.Sysex= System exclusive.Although it's cool to be able to control the exclusive parameters of a HW device it's not at all necessary.
2. System Common data+ that data that is common to ALL midi devices:
A. note on/off
B. program change
C. etc.
If you insert a VSTi into a slot of BIAB, Biab is sending all the normal system common data for that channel.Just look in the midi monitor.So Paul if you've coded your VSTi correctly it will pass all the system common data.If you insert it into the DEFAULT slot it'll pass all system common data from all channels.BTW BIAB does not send any System Exclusive stuff.RB can be set to though as long as you program it in.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
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"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php

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#191614 - 01/25/13 02:43 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: silvertones]
Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
pwarren Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
Quote:

Two types of midi data:
1.Sysex= System exclusive.Although it's cool to be able to control the exclusive parameters of a HW device it's not at all necessary.
2. System Common data+ that data that is common to ALL midi devices:
A. note on/off
B. program change
C. etc.
If you insert a VSTi into a slot of BIAB, Biab is sending all the normal system common data for that channel.Just look in the midi monitor.So Paul if you've coded your VSTi correctly it will pass all the system common data.If you insert it into the DEFAULT slot it'll pass all system common data from all channels.BTW BIAB does not send any System Exclusive stuff.RB can be set to though as long as you program it in.




Thanks. That's basically what I thought. Nice to have confirmation.
_________________________
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2.BiaB Wiki

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#191615 - 01/25/13 02:49 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: pwarren]
Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
pwarren Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
Ok everyone. I found and fixed my first dumbass mistake.

During development I set the max number of ports to two, the number on my development PC. And of course I forgot to re-code it to set max to the number on the system it's being used on. So you could only access the first two ports even though they were all displayed.

I've fixed that so please download the new version. Sorry for that.
_________________________
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#191616 - 01/25/13 02:54 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: pwarren]
Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
pwarren Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
With regard to sending data to VW, Using 'Force MIDI Channel' to 9 (or whatever channel your VW is using) doesn't work. You must change the channel that the VSTi is on to 9 in Prefs|Channels. For example, if you want to send the melody set it to channel 9 and insert the Redirector.

I still don't know yet if VW will respond but this is the absolute least you must do. I'll pass on more info as I get it.

paul
_________________________
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#191617 - 01/25/13 08:11 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: pwarren]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 8013
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 8013
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:

Is your hardware synth ahead of the VWs in the chain? Mine is and I was going to remove it and try the VWs alone. That wil tell me a lot about what's going on.




separate chains.. that's why I bought a 2x2



but... I *WAS* using the "force channel to..." the channel of my device toward the end. I'll test some more with the new version, being careful to use the other method of specifying receiving channel

You're gonna get this to work, Paul! even at this early stage of development you've achieved phenomenal success! It took Edison over 600 tries before he found a process for making light bulbs that worked.

You're only on iteration 10, and with huge payoff already!

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#191618 - 01/25/13 09:54 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
pwarren Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
I've figured out why the VWorks isn't receiving data. I'm losing the channels somehow. Everything is on channel 1. So this version will only work for a single channel at a time. You can't put it on the default slot yet unless you want some very surprising effects and you can't use multiple instances.

However, if you want to try using VWorks set the unit to receive on channel 1 and you can send data. hopefully I can get the channel data included soon. Maybe Monday with luck.

Thanks all for bearing with me through the development cycles.
_________________________
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#191619 - 01/25/13 09:57 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
pwarren Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
Hi Pat. See my above post for why this isn't working quite right yet. I'll have it worked out soon. Just some minor teething troubles. It'll be worth it in the long run. Thanks for your help and support.
_________________________
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2.BiaB Wiki

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#191620 - 01/26/13 08:46 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: pwarren]
Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 8013
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Pat Marr Offline
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Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 8013
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC
Paul, here are my results from your most recent
release:

1) the MIDI no longer goes to both ports. Now it goes to A port only. Port B shows up in the dropdown menu, but if I select it, then exit and return, the port is reset to A

2) if I change the VW receive channel to 1, it now accepts patch changes, but it still doesn't change chords based on the notes that appear to be getting through (MIDI light still shows activity every time a chord is played)

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#191621 - 01/26/13 03:04 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Windows] Re: VSTi to Midi v0.9b is here [Re: Pat Marr]
Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
pwarren Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 826
Loc: BC, Canada
The good news is I found why the channel data was being lost. I had left a bit mask on the midi msg resulting in only the status info being transfered. Removing the bit mask allowed all data to be transfered.

With that fix I was able to get my VWorks Plus to operate under midi control.

The bad news is I can't upload the dll until later. It'll be Monday at the latest. Stay tuned.

Oh, and Pat, can you wait until the new version is uploaded to address the port issue? We'll see if the change I made has an affect on that problem.

Paul
_________________________
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