Bah Humbug. It's not cheating. It's just being professional. If it was, mixing and mastering would be cheating. BIAB would be a crime etc etc etc.... Just my thoughts. The punters don't know or care. Most of them don't even know if you're singing in the right key lol. If I could zap the guitar, I'd be tempted to use Karaoke files... Just do whatever makes you happy and gets you work.
I use BIAB live for streaming and my one man shows. I also play with other musicians just singing and playing guitar. I like the buzz of playing raw.
Last edited by lambada; 06/08/1702:04 AM.
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487 BIAB 2021 (Build 818) Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi) VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
I do this on occasion, so I'll say No all around. One reason I justify doing it is that I only perform my own compositions, usually trying out brand new ones. In a real sense it's me being the whole band.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
Is it cheating? Does it mean that the performance is no longer genuinely live? Is it too close for comfort to the ‘k’ word?
Respectively answered.
Only in the same way that playing a synth that sounds like an orchestra is cheating....
Yeah it does. Unless you have a band playing all acoustic instruments..... depends on how small the nits you want to pick with this are.
Well, that depends on how much effort you put into the mix to make it sound original and not-midi..... and how creative you are with the live instrument you are playing.
As long as the venue and the audience are cool with it, you are fine. Yeah, I haven't played any live gigs in a very long time, but when I was playing and doing a solo act, or performance, I really liked using the backing tracks. I have played many a gig where it was me, a bar stool, an acoustic guitar and a mic. It's certainly a lot of fun doing it that way and also freeing. Example.... if you are staring a song and realize the audience isn't into it, you can cut it short and do something else or conversely, extend it if they are really into it. You are not tied down to a given song form by the constraints of the backing tracks.
But..... backing tracks, well recorded, sure do sound good.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
If you are the background music at a bar where the main event is people drinking and talking I think that is just fine and no one will care or maybe even notice.
If you are the headliner where folks came for the performance/music that might be a different story.
I would not knowingly pay for tickets to a performance where the "band" would be backing tracks. On the other hand I have been in small bars before and enjoyed the music without caring about that.
Only in the same way that playing a synth that sounds like an orchestra is cheating...
There is quite a difference in using a prerecorded backing track and playing a synth live. One involves pressing PLAY while the other requires an actual live performance. I agree the synth player is not equivalent to an orchestra but he/she is most definitely playing live!
Pro: It can really fill in on certain songs. Pro: I play acoustic and electric guitar and if my hands get tired, usually due to lack of sleep and an old neck injury that effects my hands, I can lighten up on the playing for a bit. If my voice gets tired, usually due to lack of sleep and singing too much that day, I can elaborate the song melody on guitar or double stop and chord solo type stuff for a while. Hotel California would be a good example. Pro: On danceable songs I tend to make the drums and bass a bit stronger either by mixing in the DAW or by EQ on the mixer. If the track combined with my guitar intro is similar to the original song it will help get people moving when they recognize it. Boot Scootin' Boogie and Beer For My Horses for example. I can and do practice and perform almost all my vocal songs on acoustic guitar without "Econo Band". Many with slightly different arrangements than when I use Econo-Band. But that's because many of the tracks I make include a solo/interlude section and often the solo I have worked out sounds thin without the rhythm section going.
Con: Econo Band is not going to adjust for you if you lose timing or if you lose your place during the song. This can induce Turret Syndrome which is not good for public image. So, practice with the track extensively and you might even want to be somewhat consistent in your song arrangements so they are easier to follow. Con: Getting your tracks to be a consistent volume is another. I run the mixer from the stage and connect my Econo Band mp3 player to a stereo volume pedal to help counter this. I don't know the ohms of the pots in the pedal but I know that does matter. Mine just seems to work. It's a cheapie made by Rogue. The volume pedal also allows me to fade out a song if I don't feel it's going well or if I accidentally repeat the same song. I also use a bass kick drum and play a tambourine with one foot. Only one foot at a time. I don't use both feet and play both at the same time. I do this with or without the Econo Band. Usually on the 1. On the 1 and 3. Or on the 2 and 4. Tapping the tambourine during the chorus for example. It help add some dynamics to the song. Con: It doesn't really allow for other musicians to join in with you on the fly unless it's a standard blues tune and they play a solo type instrument. But it pretty much eliminates a bass player, for example, if one wanted to join you. Con; If most of your songs are performed with tracks and you know some songs that you don't have tracks for are you eliminating some good songs because you think they will now be out of place without a backing track? Or, can you feel confident playing those songs without backing tracks and not lose the energy of the audience due to the simple change in dynamics from full band sound to singer/songwriter sound? If you do this be careful how you arrange your set. You might not want to go back and forth too many times from tracks to no tracks.
So there's a little on some of the pro's and con's I've experienced and how I've overcome some of the cons.
Don't know if you have heard of a performer named Mike Cross. Essentially came out of the same musical scene/area as James Taylor. Just never made it as big as JT but equally talented, perhaps more.
I've never seen JT live, but I have seen Mike and my band even played a show with him where he headlined a Bluegrass/country music festival.
He uses no backing tracks when I saw him play live. I walked in to the first show and all that was on the stage was an acoustic guitar and a fiddle and a mic setup. He did the entire show with nothing but his voice and those 2 instruments. Amazingly good show.
He does use live pickers on stage at times.
Search him on youtube.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 06/10/1701:46 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
This ol' thing is never going away. I used to be in the "it's a fraud" camp. I'm a drummer and, when drum boxes first appeared, I was horrified and angry. However, I soon realised that they have their place where needed.
I am still a drummer and get plenty of work. I've forgotten about the drum machines now and I've forgiven the backing tracks because I understand why they are there.
I'm also the front man in a 5-piece Country band in the UK and I love playing with the band.
I also use backing tracks for those clubs who cannot afford the band because their membership is too small for them to have the money. So... they go for Solo, Duo or Trio acts and, in my opinion, there is no reason to vilify the artists for using tracks - they are providing a service to a market requirement and enjoyment to people who otherwise would not be listening or dancing to the music.
In my opinion it's harder to perform to tracks than it is to perform with a band. The band is flexible. The tracks are not. You have to know your tracks inside out to be sure you don't implode and go into a tailspin when you forget there are only 8 bars of lead solo rather than the 16 you play when you're playing the same song in the band.
I've learned that the tracks have their place in the music scene. The punters don't mind. The clubs we play don't mind. The line dancers don't mind. Why should we be huffy about it?
When you first start gigging, backing tracks are 'cheating'. Then eventually you realize the most expensive, choreographed/produced shows are all run on a click/backing track/whatever you want to call it. Lights and lasers, keyboards, guitar sounds, all run by computers. It's true from Rock to Broadway.
Are they cheating? Or producing?
To the audience, it doesn't matter when it is done right. If you need to see a true live music performance, go to the local symphony or local HS band concert. Otherwise it's entertainment, which is a business, with many different models.
This is a highly regarded/critiqued 'live show'. This particular video version on YouTube has timing issues and the actual performance was much more accurate, but the underlying points remain. I have the DVD and highly recommend any performer watch this movie at least once; the planning/performance/artistry is very impressive, a true 'production'.
/"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." <grin>
Last edited by rharv; 06/17/1708:19 AM.
Make your sound your own! .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
This issue pops up from time to time. Surprised it's still questioned. As long as you're playing your instrument (and/or singing) there's no "cheating" about it. BIAB is merely filling in for the instruments the establishment doesn't want to pay for. Actually, even if they did I'd still prefer playing my guitar with BIAB behind me. I don't want to sit there all night comping while the pianist plays the melody and then he and everyone else takes endless solos. With BIAB, I play the melody and I take all the solos I want. No complaints from the band! (None from the audience so far either). Best of all worlds!
I play rock and blues with other musicians and I like the performance part. The other hassles of a band can be trying.
On the other hand, my mother exposed me music from the 30's to the 50's. I like it and I sing it fairly well. When I went looking for musicians to play this music with, there were very few. So I started playing 7 string but it didn't have enough going on. So I bought BIAB and recorded backing tracks.
The audience doesn't care as long as it is good and you put something of yourself in it.
I play at nursing homes occasionally. These places don't have the budget to hire bands. Many of the residents suffer from dementia but they can sing the songs, sometimes every word. It is a wonderful thing for them and for me. Without backing tracks,this couldn't happen. At that moment, I couldn't care less what any "real" musician thinks.
I play music for a living. I have three different projects and one of then is a solo country act wich i use baking tracks. The way i look at it, not every venue (especially the smaller ones) can afford to pay for a full band. So if i can provide them with an entertaining performance that simulates a full band at a price they can afford it's a win for both parties.
I do have an acoustic duo as well for smaller venues but many places in my area (touristy Florida) prefer the backing tracks. It probably has something to do with the drums and bass making it more danceable.
Hello, I didn't see anything in the rules about re-opening old threads and this one is interesting due to widely varying opinions. For my 2C, I would say using backing tracks depends on your circumstances. As I am buying BIAB very soon I went ahead and joined the forum.
Firstly, I am an amateur vocalist / rhythm guitar player (non-Japanese) living in a remote region in Japan. We have a local music scene here, some paid as well as a good number of open mic gigs / unpaid music pub spots where you can just go and perform. These open mic / unpaid venues are the ones I am interested in. I have been trying for about two years to put together a rock / pop cover band , but with very limited success. There is the interest, but there always seems to be a reason not to practice or not to attend a scheduled mic night - some legit (working / family commitments etc.) and some not so much (shampooing the dog etc.). Either way, the band thing is not happening as quickly as I like because we don't practice and we dont get better (e.g. playing in the right key would be great). As we want to do western covers, on occasion i have to explain who people like the Rolling Stones and Springsteen are (for example), as the other band members may have only ever heard one or two of the most well-known songs, which further slows down the process. There are a few cover bands here, but many bands don't have a vocalist as they are unwilling to sing in english (especially if I am in the audience), so it really becomes a complete 'Empty Orchestra' or 'Kara-Oke' experience by definition. There are of course lots of Japanese rock / pop bands for Japanese rock etc.
Jazz gigs (paid and unpaid) are also very popular here and really seem to resonate with Japanese audiences. For other genres (country / rock), professionals (both actual and self-appointed) tend to frown on using backing tracks in any performance, which also tends to limit the material you might hear to the same Dylan / Beatles / Clapton tracks getting played over and over again (I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked to do 'Tears In Heaven'....)
I have a lot of tracks I would really like to do at these open mic nights for which there are no professional backing tracks anyway. So instead of waiting for the right band members to come along, I figured I may as well put together a semi-acoustic set of the songs I want to play. In this case, I consider backing tracks crucial. BIAB appeals because of the range of styles available coupled with the proficiency of the musicians and being able to flesh out known tracks to support guitar / harmonica / vocal to being able to dabble in ideas for different styles / tempos for other songs - from standards by Bob Dylan to a bluegrass version of 'Rio' by Duran Duran .
Either way, in this situation BIAB offers the opportunity to demonstrate what it is we are trying to achieve and hopefully allow us to rework the BIAB tracks back into live backing once we are all on the same page. The other option is the very real possibility of not improving and not playing at all if it depends on putting together a band that may never eventuate.
And you're right, re-invigorating old threads is not frowned on at all!
You'll enjoy BIAB. There's a bit of a learning curve. If you're patient, though, the end result makes it well worth while taking the time to get to know the program.
Welcome to the PG Music forum. When you get a chance, visit the User Showcase section of the forum. There are a few forum members from Japan that post links to their compositions.
Backing tracks force you to be a little more disciplined in your rendering. It is unforgiving on timing and really hard on you if you slide on pitch. It is as much an art form as any other in my opinion. In the end it is your performance that counts in a live gig. The music is there to enhance the audience experience, not dominate it.
What is live? What is cheating? Well , my questions are this; Is your voice live and can you mess up , lose your timing or pitch? Ever stand up in front of people and have that happen? The embarrassment will certainly be live. Are you playing an instrument? Did you miss a chord or a few notes in a lead guitar part, maybe a whole bar and there you stand with the music playing and your mouth hanging open, pretty live situation if you ask me. But then again I am just a beginner but been listening for almost 60yrs. So last but not least, whos opinion is most important the players or the listeners? Who are we doing this for again? Just some thoughts......
Playing in bands is overrated. They show up late or not at all, and when they do they always argue about something or other. ☹️ Having BIAB as your backup band is wonderful. No arguments, no complaints, no dilution of earnings. You are in complete control.
Playing in bands is overrated. They show up late or not at all, and when they do they always argue about something or other. ☹️ Having BIAB as your backup band is wonderful. No arguments, no complaints, no dilution of earnings. You are in complete control.
I read this and thought over many years of playing with a lot of talented people in a number of bands, boy haven’t I forged a lot of great lifelong bonds with some real characters.
These days I create my backing tracks and often go out by myself. Very lonely compared to a bunch of guys joking, laughing and enjoying each other’s company.
When it comes to is it cheating. Maybe I use BIAB incorrectly but rarely do I just enter a bunch of chords, pick a style and call it done. Usually I (and I’m sure a lot of others) enter chords, pick a style, then think maybe this part could be made better by substituting a RealTrack or putting the track in RealBand and regenerating a part. Sometimes it is still not right so you write a bit using midi. We may put the song into a DAW and further edit the tracks, cut and paste, adjust timing, etc. Now the song sounds the way we like it, then we mix and master it, put it the way we like it. Then with a number of songs in mind we get them to the same level so there is no sudden rush to a volume knob.
At last with all that done it is time to perform. In my case that means singing, playing guitar (lead breaks etc) and generally entertaining a room full of people.
I really don’t see all this as cheating. It is in fact easier to stand there with a few of your mates sharing the load and having a good time playing music. The good thing is BIAB does not get moody, drunk or wish it was somewhere else. I can wake up at some ungodly hour put on headphones and design another song without disrupting other folk. BIAB has given me a new lease but I really don’t see it as cheating.
My thoughts Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 08/21/1812:41 AM.
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I guess it always depends on what the listener expects (and has paid for!) If I am having a few drinks with friends and we are enjoying each other's company then, as a listener I don't care if it is one guy with backing tracks or the radio playing over the bar's speakers. On the other hand, if I purchased a ticket and will be there to watch & listen to a performance, I'm not really very keen on seeing & hearing someone sing along to prerecorded tracks. Not saying it is bad or wrong...just that I would not pay to see/hear it!
Irrespective of the intrigue, arguments, hassles, etc of the band world part of a live music experience for me is seeing folks work off of one another musically. Everything from the perfect little fill to the inspired solo to that something extra in a vocal I do realize that a burnt out live group (been in them) is not gonna provide that but when everybody is hittin' the note for us it doesn't get much better. But, hey, good music manifests itself in a zillion genres and configurations...I'm one old phart with an opinion and that is all.
I'm an even worse cheat now - even my guitar and vocal effects/harmonies are pre-programmed into my backing tracks on the Voicelive 3 Extreme. I'm no longere trying to press buttons etc but can focus on the audience. I have one unit that plugs into the PA between me and my guitar. If it breaks down it's me, my mic and old trusty
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487 BIAB 2021 (Build 818) Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi) VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
“I read this and thought over many years of playing with a lot of talented people in a number of bands, boy haven’t I forged a lot of great lifelong bonds with some real characters.“ -Tony
I enjoy playing with other musicians as well Tony, but the opportunities are few and far between. I was being a bit facetious in my earlier post.
Playing in church or a CCC cocktail lounge, with BIAB backup, I have never once been accused of cheating. If anyone asks I say it was, “Pre-recorded”, which some of the guitar parts were actually pre-recorded by me.
Since my last post in this thread over a year ago I have progressed (sarcasm) to not using backing tracks for almost a year now. It's just my voice, acoustic guitar, tambourine under my right foot and a microphone stuffed in a brief case with lots of padding inside under my left foot for a kick/bass drum sound. I do play both feet at the same time now and have even worked out a few various patterns for different songs. I mostly sing at restaurants and often enough there are people dancing for at least a few songs even though it's dinner hours. My acoustic guitar sound is very janglie when strumming with sufficient bass on the two low strings. For most songs I've worked on my right hand technique to simulate what a bass player would do while still strumming the rhythm. I guess I'll call it Travis Strumming. At times I miss having tracks because I have to avoid "void soloing" but I am getting better at chord soloing to make up the difference. Some have said I don't need the backing tracks. Others have said I'm better without them. No one has ever suggested I should go back to using tracks or that I should have tracks or try using them or anything like that. But, I'm always considering putting basic drum patterns on a Beat Buddy just for drums alone. I don't think I would even use the Beat Buddy to it's full purpose. Just way to use my feet to start and stop simple patterns that I play along with using my foot percussion. Anyway, that's me at this point. As far as cheating goes. Getting Karaoke tracks for free from a download or a Karaoke Jockey buddy, setting yourself up with a small screen monitor and a PA system and performing like that. That's cheating. It's cheesy too. I've seen and heard it done. No matter how good the singer it's still cheating and I'll tell on you if I catch you doing it. We should have Entertainment Police we can call to have these people imprisoned. It's really bad.
The value of backing tracks depends a lot on the type of performance. Someone singing and comping himself on guitar doesn’t need them. The melody and harmony are there (and some percussion if he gets his feet working). However, if someone is playing guitar instrumentally, as I do, either he’s a guitar virtuoso (which I’m not) or he needs some backup. Personally I’m not keen on guitar solos. I like to hear the piano, drums and bass in the background. As I play mostly jazz standards, that’s what works best, and the folks I play for prefer instrumentals to a singer as background music. When I play spiritual songs in church, a backing track of guitar and subtle bass works best. I either pre-record the guitar track myself, or if it’s just simple comping I let BIAB do it. I never use a BIAB guitar track that I’m not capable of doing myself. My audiences in both settings like it very much. No complaints yet!
I agree with Alastair on this. I think the style of music has a lot to do with whether of not I would use backing tracks. I've been successfully gigging for years playing instrumental guitar along with my BIAB backing tracks. Especially in situations where "background music" is required, I can create a nice small band sound without being too loud. However, if i was to gig with my acoustic guitar and voice (finger picking folk, blues, country, etc.). I probably would not use tracks. My own style of singing is pretty laid back, and I don't want to be tied to a specific beat throughout a whole song.
But, I've also heard singers sound great using backing tracks. "Different strokes for different folks".
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lol. If I could zap the guitar, I'd be tempted to use Karaoke files... Just do whatever makes you happy and gets you work. 
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