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#427308 - 08/23/17 04:36 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: edshaw]
Registered: 12/05/07
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Loc: NSW Australia
Keith from Oz Offline
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Hi guys,
Thank you for all your help & suggestions; I think I've found an HP laptop that fits the bill. It's within my price range, and the specs meet the recommendations as suggested by the forum.
Just one problem - it doesn't have a line in.
I currently have my keyboard connected to the Ketron, which has stereo RCA output, through a lead to a 3.5mm (?) jack that goes into the line in of the laptop.

Without a line-in, is there another way to connect the Ketron to the HP - perhaps some sort of adaptor?
TIA
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Cheers,
Keith

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#427318 - 08/23/17 06:35 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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I recommend a USB audio interface such as a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, or larger depending on the number of other inputs you need.
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BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#427325 - 08/23/17 07:43 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 1197
Loc: Hong Kong
lambada Offline
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Posts: 1197
Loc: Hong Kong
Maybe the line in and line out are combined? Seems strange. You can always use a USB output for sound. As mentioned a good audio interface will be most suitable if the budget stretches. I use the the UA-2 by Zoom as it's USB 3. There are others by Zoom. Personally I love Zoom products but a lot of people on the site like Focusrite, and there are loads of others. Even some of these fancy mixers..... if live is going to be your thing. :-)
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#427331 - 08/23/17 08:47 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10773
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Offline
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Very few laptops have line in inputs these days. It forces you into an external solution.
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John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
HP Win7Pro-64, 8GB

H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
S/W-BB/RB2018/Sonar/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
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#427336 - 08/23/17 09:38 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: jford]
Registered: 12/05/07
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Loc: NSW Australia
Keith from Oz Offline
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Yes, I didn't think it would be as complicated - or so expensive.

I may have to look at other options.
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Cheers,
Keith

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#427342 - 08/23/17 10:20 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Registered: 12/05/07
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Keith from Oz Offline
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Would something like this (without the yellow video lead) work?

Or is that too simple?


Attachments
index.jpg


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Keith

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#427350 - 08/23/17 11:51 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Registered: 12/05/07
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Loc: NSW Australia
Keith from Oz Offline
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Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2204
Loc: NSW Australia
Sorry, picture too small.


Attachments
3index.jpg


_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#427439 - 08/24/17 05:12 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 387
Loc: Central Ohio
edshaw Offline
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Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 387
Loc: Central Ohio
Don't you need an interface to convert analog signal to digital? Digital interfaces have a variety of input/ouptut.
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Win 7 64bit
SONY Acid & Reaper
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#427440 - 08/24/17 05:35 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: edshaw]
Registered: 12/05/07
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Keith from Oz Offline
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Hi Ed,
I'm not sure. I believe the signal that comes from the Ketron SD2 is MIDI. Currently I connect a regular RCA/3.5mm lead from the Ketron output to the line in of the laptop.
I hoping someone who uses a Ketron & a laptop without line in will jump in.
_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#427502 - 08/25/17 07:44 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 10773
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Offline
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Like Matt said, you're going to need an external interface that has line-in capability to get the audio from the Ketron back to your computer.

I've got a Ketron SD-2 (and unfortunately, it is failing, so I can use it much anymore, however....).

The Ketron accepts MIDI input from either a computer or a keyboard. It generates the audio from that input and sends it out via a stereo audio connection. That's why you need the "line-in" on your computer to be able to record the Ketron's output in real time (you have to records it; you can't render it like you can with a DXi or a VSTi).

So, something like Matt's suggestion should work for you. Here is how I had my system set up (I have an M-Audio Fast Track Pro, which has audio in, audio out, MIDI in and MIDI out capability).

My Fast Track pro is connected to my computer via USB and is seen by the computer as an available sound card. The USB is a bi-direction connetion that supports audio and MIDI data across the connection. I then have the MIDI out of the FastTrack connected to the MIDI in of the Ketron (which allows MIDI data from the computer to drive the Ketron; however, you could just have the MIDI out of your electronic keyboard connected to the MIDI in of the Ketron, which allows the keyboard to drive the Ketron). Then the output from my Ketron goes to a stereo audio input on my hardware mixer unit and then the mixer unit is connected to the audio in on my Fast Track pro (via balanced cables for clean sound) so that the audio data from the Ketron can be recorded back into the computer. You don't need the intermediary mixer (the Ketron audio out could go directly to the audio in of your external sound card); however, this allows me to also use the mixer for microphone records and other instrument recordings.

Below is a rough picture of how I do it with my laptop:


Attachments
Interconnect Presentation.jpg


_________________________
John

HP Win10Pro-64, 8GB
ASUS Win10Pro-64, 16GB
HP Win7Pro-64, 8GB

H/W-Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD, Casio Kbds
S/W-BB/RB2018/Sonar/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
Web-http://www.sus4chord.com

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#427518 - 08/25/17 09:58 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: edshaw]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6618
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Online   content
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6618
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Originally Posted By: edshaw
Now that Band in a Box comes on its own hard drive, has that changed anything, as far as what computer to use?


No, that has nothing to do with it. The PGM hard drive is just another external storage device, it's not processing anything. The processing is done by your CPU in your computer.

Keith, you said you're not very technical and I can certainly see that's true. I sympathize because about 15 years ago I was right there with you. I decided to get into digital audio and knew absolutely squat about any of it. I could barely spell MIDI much less understand what it was.

First, Bob's Mantra: "Midi is not audio, audio is not MIDI, ommmm."

Once you understand that, the first question is what exactly are you recording? Are you using the Ketron as a sound source for Biab? If so that's for Biab's MIDI tracks, the Real Tracks/Drums are all audio, not MIDI so the Ketron is not doing anything with the RT/RD's

Next is do you sing, are you wanting to record your vocals?

Next do you want to record anyone else like a singer, a guitarist, whatever?

Right now you have a laptop and a Ketron. The Ketron is a synth that accepts a MIDI signal and converts that to audio. Go back to Bob's mantra and understand that. It converts MIDI to audio. How do you hear or record the audio? To simply hear it you take the RCA audio jacks out of the Ketron and plug them into your amp or studio monitors. To record that audio you have to run those RCA's into your laptop and then the audio FROM the laptop goes to your sound system unless you want to listen to everything on the little crappy laptop speakers. The headphone out's from the laptop can sound pretty good, you could use an audio adapter to run the audio from the headphone out to your sound system.

If your laptop has a line out but no line in then you need something to get the audio into the laptop. The only way is to use a USB interface. That interface plugs into your laptop using it's USB port, it's the USB that carries the audio from your Ketron. The interface has inputs for your mic or any instruments (which are audio inputs). That means you need an interface with two audio inputs for L and R stereo. Those come from the Ketron. You could use something as simple as this:

Behinger Line 2

ALL this does is run the audio out from the Ketron to a USB line into your laptop. Personally I think it's a waste of money because you'll realize you want some other inputs too like a mic for example. But if all you want is a way to get the audio from the Ketron to your laptop then this is all you need plus a couple of 1/4" to RCA adapters. Then use the headphone out of your laptop to your sound system.

This is enough of a lesson for the moment. Let us know exactly what you're trying to do.

Bob


Edited by jazzmammal (08/25/17 10:11 AM)
_________________________
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#427528 - 08/25/17 11:00 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: edshaw]
Registered: 07/12/00
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Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
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Posts: 17740
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Originally Posted By: edshaw
Now that Band in a Box comes on its own hard drive, has that changed anything, as far as what computer to use?

I do not disagree with anything Bob jazzmammal said. I'll just point out that I think there is something to consider if you are really trying hard to squeeze out the best performance. BIAB runs fine from the supplied USB drive. But it will run better if the program is loaded onto an internal hard drive, and much better if loaded onto an internal SSD drive.

Most laptops you can buy have a SSD boot drive (the only drive) as standard or an option, but it isn't large enough capacity for all of BIAB, and maybe not even for just the program without the RealTracks. In a desktop, you can easily pop in a SSD just for the BIAB program; this is what I did. Then save the RealTracks on an internal fast hard drive that will always be faster than an external USB drive (again, this is what I did). Extreme and more expensive? Yes. But for me as a composer it is worth it.
_________________________
BIAB 2018 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Mixcraft, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

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#427599 - 08/25/17 09:33 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: jazzmammal]
Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2204
Loc: NSW Australia
Keith from Oz Offline
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Loc: NSW Australia
Hi again,
Thank you all for your assistance.
John - thank for going to the trouble of showing me your set up - very impressive.

Matt - as always your knowledge & advice is always first class - thank you.

Bob -

Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Keith, you said you're not very technical and I can certainly see that's true. I sympathize because about 15 years ago I was right there with you. I decided to get into digital audio and knew absolutely squat about any of it. I could barely spell MIDI much less understand what it was.


I still can't spell MDII smile


Next is do you sing, are you wanting to record your vocals?

No ... my singing is cr*p

Next do you want to record anyone else like a singer, a guitarist, whatever?

No, just me and my keyboard.



This is enough of a lesson for the moment. Let us know exactly what you're trying to do.

Bob


Bob , thank you. I was of the (mis)understanding that the signal coming out of the Ketron was MIDI, but now I understand that its not.
I can now look at finding a suitable connection as per your recommendation.

Thankyou once again for all of your help.
_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#427665 - 08/26/17 10:06 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6618
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Online   content
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6618
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
OK, I see in your other thread you were asking about a MIDI to USB converter cable. In this thread I assumed you already had one of those because you said here you needed to get the audio out of your Ketron since the new laptop doesn't have a line in like the old one did. Since the Ketron can only produce audio from an incoming midi signal that begs the question, how have you been using the Ketron up to now if you don't already have a midi connection cable?

This is why I asked you exactly what are you planning to do with your equipment in this case a keyboard and the Ketron. To be specific:

1. What make and model of keyboard do you have and what kind of midi connections does it have?

2. How do want to use your keyboard? Is it to play along with Biab and you want to record the audio only? If you connect the midi from your keyboard to the Ketron you can use the Ketron for better/different sounds than what the keyboard produces internally.

3. When you use Biab do you use some midi styles or do you use all Real Tracks? Your Ketron can really make the midi styles come to life.

Answers to these questions will help us to figure out just what you need. it's possible you can get away with a couple of cheap midi to USB cables but lets find out.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

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#427732 - 08/26/17 05:32 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Registered: 12/05/07
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Loc: NSW Australia
Keith from Oz Offline
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Hi Bob,
Thanks for your continuing interest & help.
The previous thread you referred to relates to a replacement cable, rather than a new item.
My current setup (which works fine) is as follows:

Casio WK1800 keyboard -> Edirol UM1X interface - 1 DIN into Casio & the other into -> Ketron SD2. The USB from the interface into the Toshiba laptop. Ketron via RCAs to 3.5mm lead into line in of laptop.
Laptop headphone out via graphic equalizer into amp.

I've had the Ketron for a number of years now, and I absolutely love it. The sounds it produces, particularly the higher bank patches are great, and combined with Real Tracks, they make a simple piano player like me sound half good smile

I'm hoping that the solution will be simply a lead with RCA stereo jacks (from the Ketron) and a USB (to the new laptop).
_________________________
Cheers,
Keith

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#427799 - 08/27/17 07:28 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11525
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
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Registered: 12/27/03
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Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Keith from Oz
Hi Bob,
.............

I'm hoping that the solution will be simply a lead with RCA stereo jacks (from the Ketron) and a USB (to the new laptop).



This should do the trick for you:

http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/253987-Technical-Pro-USB2RCA

Or something like this would also work:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/HDE-3-RCA-to-...ter&veh=sem

Good luck
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#427860 - 08/27/17 04:09 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2204
Loc: NSW Australia
Keith from Oz Offline
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Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 2204
Loc: NSW Australia
Excellent, thank you Mario.
I'll hunt one down.
_________________________
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Keith

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#427878 - 08/27/17 07:00 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 387
Loc: Central Ohio
edshaw Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 387
Loc: Central Ohio
Here is a basic knowledge DAC summary.
Caution: it is an info-commercial, but a good one.

https://www.audioadvice.com/content/2016/11/22/what-is-a-dac/
_________________________
Biab 2015
Win 7 64bit
SONY Acid & Reaper
TEAC Digital deck
HD Stereo field recorder w/ clock

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#428004 - 08/28/17 08:13 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: Keith from Oz]
Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 387
Loc: Central Ohio
edshaw Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 387
Loc: Central Ohio
We need to know, you are not likely to run into the highest end studios and see a MacBook Pro running Garage Band, although I am told Willie's Austin studio has good ol' Pro Tools at the core.
You might see a rack of something like these:
http://tascam.com/product/da-3000/

Scroll down to the schematic and note the components include transformer (no 12v converter in the wall) DAC and ADC modules, and a few other things. run the And, the clock to snyc them. The channel faders are in another room.

I only point this out to advise you as to what you are hoping to duplicate with the system you are putting together. Don't spend too much time reinventing the wheel.

It doesn't take long to get up to $1,299 putting components together.
They have to balance. If it runs cakewalk, it probably will run BIAB.
If not, run the BIAB on a laptop.

http://tascam.com/product/trackfactory_project/

http://tascam.com/news/display/12606/


Edited by edshaw (08/28/17 08:30 PM)
_________________________
Biab 2015
Win 7 64bit
SONY Acid & Reaper
TEAC Digital deck
HD Stereo field recorder w/ clock

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#428239 - 08/30/17 04:07 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Can Someone please help? [Re: edshaw]
Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 387
Loc: Central Ohio
edshaw Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/09/16
Posts: 387
Loc: Central Ohio
Risking being rude by replying to my own post, one other general knowlege topic we should all be familiar with are is the processors.
Questions one: AMD or Intel?
Question two: Intel Core i5 or Intel Core i7?
Compare Intel processors.
Four core, eight thread, recomended for audio visual media work.
_________________________
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Win 7 64bit
SONY Acid & Reaper
TEAC Digital deck
HD Stereo field recorder w/ clock

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