Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread
Print Thread
Go To
#445722 12/17/17 01:16 PM
My Favorite Things
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
B
bluage Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
B
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Good afternoon, folks...

I just experimented with the new "natural arrangements" feature in Band-in-a-Box 2018. It seemed to unleash an even more exciting electric guitar solo in the song I'm working on using the Guitar, Resophonic, Rhythm Blues Delta Sw 065 style.

Has anyone else noticed this very welcome improvement in chord interpretation/performance rendering while using the natural arrangement option in your song?

Thrilled,

LOREN


"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
My Favorite Things
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,799
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,799
Absolutely. This is an excellent feature. You haven’t read about it because it was new for last year’s release, 2017 BIAB.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
My Favorite Things
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
B
bluage Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
B
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Hi, Mr. Finley...

Yes, I passed on the 2017 version because I thought I had all I needed from Band-in-a-Box -- WRONG laugh !!! Won't do that again!

Anyway, the effect the "natural arrangement" option had on that electric guitar solo was stunning. If you'd been in my presence at that moment you probably would've seen my jaw drop to the floor. It was as though the "natural arrangement" option had located a hidden layer of improvisational sophistication in that particular Realtrack and turned it on, up, and out-of-the-park. It was exhilarating!

I set the natural arrangement option to "Always for all genres (unless disable for the song)". I want to see if what it did for the current song I'm working on could be duplicated in other songs, and especially for jazz styles.

Thanks for commenting on my post, Mr. Finley!

Sincerely,

LOREN


"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
My Favorite Things
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,799
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,799
Loren, you raise an interesting point. If I’m reading your post correctly, you say a soloist RealTrack was improved. It is my understanding that Natural Arrangement does not do that directly. Its purpose is to change chord progressions.

Your experiment suggests that changing the chord progression makes the soloist play better. I’m guessing that’s because perhaps more patterns were recorded over the ‘naturalized’ chords than were possible over the unaltered progression. This makes sense. To my knowledge this has never been discussed. It’s the same for live musicians of course: you’re going to get a better solo out of someone if they understand the chord progression better.

I would never have noticed this as I never use soloist tracks in BIAB - that’s my job. But I’m interested if others have observed what you did.


BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
My Favorite Things
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
B
bluage Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
B
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
Your experiment suggests that changing the chord progression makes the soloist play better. I’m guessing that’s because perhaps more patterns were recorded over the ‘naturalized’ chords than were possible over the unaltered progression. This makes sense.


Mr. Finley...

Yes, I'm guessing (and hoping!) that is what happened.

When I work on songs in BIAB, I tend to click on the "Generate and Play" button over, and over, and over again until I hear an arrangement that I want to keep, or "freeze". But even when I do that, it's usually only the soloists that I "freeze", and not the drums, bass, or any rhythm pianos and guitars.

Now, the original version of the song in question was composed/created last June. I did not change the Real Style, the song form or any of the chords once I had finished composing it, which only took a single evening. From June to the present, I re-generated that song more times than I kept track of, and I never, ever heard anything that sounded even close to what I heard this week after applying the "natural arrangement" option to a copy of the original song, which has the exact same chord structure, song form (AABAA), and Real Style as the original.

Ohhh-h-h, no-o-o-o, Igor! I...I think that I have a created...a m-m-monster!!! Aiiieeee, somebody save me-e-e-e! laugh

Excited,

LOREN


"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
My Favorite Things
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 117
C
Apprentice
Offline
Apprentice
C
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 117
Are you kidding me, it is a godsend! I'm listening to an arrangement that I did with RT, and I was thinking to myself, who in the world hired that piano player.

I haven't got use to the Piano Roll yet, so I've been relying on that feature to get me through. I can definitely tell the difference when I don't heed the yellow pop-up suggesting it.


Windows 10 build 16299
2018 Ultra
Intel i5-3550 @ 3.3GHz
p8z77-v pro
RAM: 32GB
Roland V-Studio 100
Alesis VX49

https://soundcloud.com/dirtbom/
My Favorite Things
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
B
bluage Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
B
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Hey, there, "CoolBreeze"...

Right on! So, you believe you heard a significant improvement in the musicality of a Realtrack performance rendered through the "natural arrangement" feature?

Spreadin' the word,

LOREN


"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
My Favorite Things
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
B
bluage Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
B
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Fellow Friends of the Forum (and, laydies, but, of course!)...

Here's something else about the "natural arrangement" option that I want blather on about! And mind you, I'm only reporting on what I believe I'm hearing, meaning that PG Music music hasn't confirmed that what I'm relating to you was actually programmed into BIAB.

Regardless, after you apply this marvelous feature to your song, listen...listen closely. You'll hear the most deliciously subtle "slips in pitch" that, to my ears, near perfectly emulate the micro-imperfections in the instrumental performances of human beings: that slightly "wrong" note, the minutely de-tuned riffs caused by the speed with which the instrumentalist is picking, plucking, blowing, bowing, or striking her instrument.

The "natural arrangements" option is an exciting, thrilling, wonderful, humanizing addition to the list of Band-in-a-Box music rendering tools dreamed up by the seemingly inexhaustible genius of the developers at PG Music. Yeah, yeah, I know: according to dear Matt Finley, I'm a year late discovering this tool laugh !!! But I haven't seen anything written about it in the forums, so I'm ringin' the bell, knockin' on doors, blowin' the whistle and beatin' the drums to call out to everyone to use this thing!

Calming down, now,

LOREN

Last edited by bluage; 12/20/17 01:37 PM.

"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
My Favorite Things
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732
I was curious about this myself from this post and dug this up from the 2018 .PDF Manual:

Natural Arrangements (re-interpret complex chords)
If you give a pro musician a complicated chord progression with fancy extensions like C7b9b13 or Gm11, the musician may reinterpret these rather than playing them exactly as written. This can achieve a much better sounding arrangement because the musician has freedom to choose from similar chord extensions. You can get Band-in-a-Box to do the same thing with this option for all tracks in all songs. (Note: To set this feature for all tracks in the current song, use the option in the Song Settings dialog. To set this feature for all tracks in all songs, use the option in the Arrangement Options dialog. To set this for specific track(s) in the current song, right-click on the track radio button, go to Track Settings | Set Natural Arrangement, and select an option.).




Steve

BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
My Favorite Things
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
B
bluage Offline OP
Expert
OP Offline
Expert
B
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,193
Hello, "sslechta"...

Thanks for your detective work laugh !

Have you used the "natural arrangement" option and, if you have, did you notice any of the results that I reported hearing in my composition?

Thanks for contributing to this thread, sir!

Sincerely

LOREN


"Music is what feelings sound like."-- borrowed from a Cakewalk Music Creator forum member, "Mamabear".
My Favorite Things
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,732
Loren,

I have not had a chance to play with it yet. I've just got 2018 upgraded from last year's version and haven't dabbled much yet.

Steve




Steve

BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
My Favorite Things
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 8
H
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
H
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 8
I have not been able to find the "Arrangement Options" dialog box in the Mac version. Does anyone know the path to access it?

My Favorite Things
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,099
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,099
Harmony,

Welcome to the forum and to Band-in-a-Box.

One way to find the arrangement option in 2020 Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) for Mac is to:

1) Right click on a track button
2) Select "Track Settings"
3) Select "Set natural arrangement - [reinterpreted chords]"

There maybe other ways I'm not aware of. Band-in-a-Box typically has multiple ways to do something.


Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1109) RB (Build 3) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H2, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
My Favorite Things
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 8
H
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
H
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Thanks Jim. Your solution works well for a single track; but I was looking for a global solution. Apparently, there is no "Arrangement Options" dialog box in the Mac version, even though the manual shows a picture of it. I did, however, find something similar near the lower left corner of the Preferences 1 panel.

My Favorite Things
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,838
Tagging on to Jim's post...

With the Windows version of the software, if I right-click on the chord sheet and then select "Song Setting" from the pop-up menu, "Natural Arrangement" options are found there. This is for adjusting on a song-by-song basis and it applies to all tracks. This is also found under "Edit | Song Form" menu.

If I choose "Options | Preferences | Arrange", there are options for setting Natural Arrangements. These settings are the default settings that open when a new chordsheet is created.

Regards,
Noel


MY SONGS...
Audiophile BIAB 2024
My Favorite Things
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,099
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,099
Noel, are all those options available on the 2020 Mac edition? I must have missed them while scanning through the Mac pdf manual.


Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1109) RB (Build 3) Ultra+ PAK
Cakewalk - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
Desktop: i7 Win 10 build 2004, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD
Laptop: i3 64bit Win 10 build 21H2, 8GB ram 500GB HDD
Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Go To

Link Copied to Clipboard
ChatPG

Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.

ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.

PG Music News
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!

The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!

There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.

If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.

We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!

Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!

There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.

Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed!

Video: Volume Automation in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created a video to help you learn more about the Volume Automation options in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows.

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Volume Automation

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#volume-automation

Video: Audio Input Monitoring with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®

We've created this short video to explain Audio Input Monitoring within Band-in-a-Box® 2024, and included some tips & troubleshooting details too!

Band-in-a-Box® 2024: Audio Input Monitoring

3:17: Tips
5:10: Troubleshooting

www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024full/chapter11.htm#audio-input-monitoring

Video: Enhanced Melodists in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows®!

We've enhanced the Melodists feature included in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows!

Access the Melodist feature by pressing F7 in the program to open the new MultiPicker Library and locate the [Melodist] tab.

You can now generate a melody on any track in the program - very handy! Plus, you select how much of the melody you want generated - specify a range, or apply it to the whole track.

See the Melodist in action with our video, Band-in-a-Box® 2024: The Melodist Window.

Learn even more about the enhancements to the Melodist feature in Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows at www.pgmusic.com/manuals/bbw2024upgrade/chapter3.htm#enhanced-melodist

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

New with the DAW Plugin Version 6.0, released with Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Windows: the Reaper® Panel!

This new panel offers built-in specific support for the Reaper® DAW API allowing direct transfer of Band-in-a-Box® files to/from Reaper® tracks!

When you run the Plugin from Reaper®, there is a panel to set the following options:
-BB Track(s) to send: This allows you to select the Plugin tracks that will be sent Reaper.
-Destination Reaper Track: This lets you select the destination Reaper track to receive media content from the Plugin.
-At Bar: You can select a bar in Reaper where the Plugin tracks should be placed.
-Start Below Selected Track: This allows you to place the Plugin tracks below the destination Reaper track.
-Overwrite Reaper Track: You can overwrite previous content on the destination Reaper track.
-Move to Project Folder: With this option, you can move the Plugin tracks to the Reaper project folder.
-Send Reaper Instructions Enable this option to send the Reaper Instructions instead of rendering audio tracks, which is faster.
-Render Audio & Instructions: Enable this option to generate audio files and the Reaper instructions.
-Send Tracks After Generating: This allows the Plugin to automatically send tracks to Reaper after generating.
-Send Audio for MIDI Track: Enable this option to send rendered audio for MIDI tracks.
-Send RealCharts with Audio: If this option is enabled, Enable this option to send RealCharts with audio.

Check out this video highlighting the new Reaper®-specific features: Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Specifically for Reaper®

Band-in-a-Box® 2024 DAW Plugin Version 6: New Features Video

The new Band-in-a-Box VST DAW Plugin Verion 6 adds over 20 new features!

Watch the new features video to learn more: Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2024 - DAW Plugin Version 6 New Features

We also list these new features at www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.plugin.htm.

Forum Statistics
Forums66
Topics81,396
Posts732,506
Members38,442
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
Newest Members
Mark Morgan, zagrajbarke, Ernest J, Izzy, BenChaz
38,441 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
MarioD 195
Al-David 124
DC Ron 116
dcuny 87
rsdean 84
Today's Birthdays
CeeDee, SethMould
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5