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#448047 - 12/30/17 09:43 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] My three wishes for BIAB 2019.
Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 829
Loc: Spain
Cerio Online   content
Expert

Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 829
Loc: Spain
1. Keep releasing new Realtracks! Realtracks are fantastic. They were introduced in 2009, and still there is no software in the world that can produce backing tracks with the quality BIAB can, thanks to the Realtracks. Realtracks are the single feature that makes BIAB such a wonderful and unique product for musicians, and I suspect the main reason why a lot of people upgrade BIAB year after year is to have new Realtracks. Just keep doing them!


2. No more "50 new features" each year! After more than 20 years adding 50 or more new features each year we have...well, just too many of them! I really don't want to sound offensive, but BIAB has a severe case of feature creep, and that's not good news:
https://www.techopedia.com/definition/4277/feature-creep
With so many features is really difficult to keep things simple. Most newcomers just find BIAB too difficult to use because of that, and even for experienced users, trying to find a feature that you haven't used for a long time is often a nightmare. New features add more complexity (and new bugs) each year, and still worst, with 50+ features being added every year, compatibility between old and new features is not easy to manage. Seriously, 99% of the users don't need 50 new features every year, they just need new Realtracks and...


3. Fix the bugs! Instead of adding new features, please, improve the ones that are already there. Fix the reported bugs, improve the program stability, make it solid rock. And make it simple: avoid windows / menus redundancy, hire a user interface designer who never used the program to get some fresh new ideas about what could be done with the GUI to improve the program's usability, etc, etc, etc.

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#448054 - 12/30/17 10:25 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Cerio]
Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2332
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2332
+1,000,000 Excellent post!

The whole "50 new features" thing is an outdated marketing technique. Plus, lots/most of the "new features" are of little use to the majority of us. And the really cool new features like User Tracks and custom track names never seem to get fully implemented.

But the RealTracks are astounding...incredible...amazing...and every other positive word I can think of! This is where the product SHINES! This feature is better than anything on the market. Bar none. Hands down.

So yeah...keep the excellent work you do on RealTracks and fix the bugs and GUI.

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#448082 - 12/30/17 01:11 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Cerio]
Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 359
Loc: Maine
Guitartist Offline
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Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 359
Loc: Maine
+1
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#448161 - 12/31/17 02:41 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Cerio]
Registered: 12/29/16
Posts: 192
Loc: UK
WendyM Offline
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Registered: 12/29/16
Posts: 192
Loc: UK
Im for all 3!!Especially the second. Im new last year to BB and the initial complexity (menus,submenus,subsubmenus) almost made me get a refund.and now weve got another 50 features!What! Will they ever get used.And nice easy features of 2017 like render to wav are now clunky and no longer user friendly.Defeats the object IMO.
If the programmers want something to do,get them working on away of being able to insert a midi instrument from a similar style into an otherwse RT style.And don't give me all that midi isnt RT guff.I know,I know.It seems daft to me that to maximise Style search you have to go midi first and then repopulate seleced tracks with RTs rather than finding a near perfect RT style that maybe just needs <M49 strings to be spot on.Current RTs like 1278 are so horribly wheezy that theyr unusable.Hence the sub.
Happy new year Biabers.
Wendy


Edited by WendyM (12/31/17 02:51 AM)
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#448170 - 12/31/17 04:59 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Cerio]
Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 792
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Islansoul Offline
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Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 792
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Sorry Cerio, I'm a Mac users so I can't agree on your wish for number two. I would love to see more features, for BIAB for Mac, but that is a different topic for a different time. I love my BIAB for Mac and it does what I need it to do.
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DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
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#448277 - 12/31/17 03:02 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Cerio]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 4324
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
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Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 4324
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
+1. Nice post Cerio.
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2019 BiaB (605) UltraPlusPak RB 2019 (Build 2)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
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#448327 - 12/31/17 07:53 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Cerio]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8687
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
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Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8687
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
All three suggestions are very worthy of consideration.

It would be great to see the Windows and Mac versions having identical functionality.

Program reliability is vital and better regression testing is definitely needed, so number 3 is particularly important in my view.

All excellent suggestions.

+1
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#448348 - 01/01/18 01:48 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Cerio]
Registered: 12/18/15
Posts: 172
Jon Thomas Offline
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Registered: 12/18/15
Posts: 172
I also fully, wholeheartedly agree with all 3 suggestions.
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BIAB 2018 Audiophile edition
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#448360 - 01/01/18 04:47 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Cerio]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Online   content
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Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
1. Re: Keep releasing new Realtracks!

RealTracks are great, no complaints here. BTW, what does everyone think about the Xtra Styles Paks being sold at extra cost? I wonder if PG has too much of an incentive to "hold back" with their best/freshest content so they can make some extra bucks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for companies charging a premium for extra features that are truly supplemental--as in of a different character than the core program features, such as the instrumental studies, or the 101 jazz phrases or what-not.

By all means, PG, develop as much Realtracks as you like, and if you want to charge more for them, how about allowing the consumer to choose the core 202 new tracks they want for their $100 upgrades. I'd much rather have many of the styles I heard Demo'd in the YT vids than the Klezmer and Mariachi. Also the Americana tracks are not all that different from the excellent RTs released over that past decade. For instance, the Rock-Pop 4 styles are a lot more distinct (and more desirable from my perspective, than many of the other RTs which came with the std. 2017 to 2018 upgrade).

You know what I would shell out good money for? A well illustrated tutorial book with a CD and example files where you need to accomplish different things. Sell them as modules for all I care. There is no reason that I, and I'd wager a majority of other BiaB owners, should only be using less than 25 percent of the program's capabilities.

2. Re: No more "50 new features" each year!

I both agree and (respectfully) disagree. On the one hand, I LOVE the features. The ACW, the reharmonist, I could go on and on. Yes, a lot of them have a very steep learning curve, and I'll readily admit that I am barely proficient in 5 percent of all of them. However, suddenly you find a use for a given feature, and it suddenly becomes indispensable.

THAT SAID, the whole "50 new features each year thing" creates a tremendous disincentive for BiaB go 'hoard' fixes and updates that should really be released continuously throughout the year.

To throw out a few examples culled from the 2018 features--organizing the cluttered folders? Saving MP3 in a quality better than 64kbps? Skins? A floating mixer? Support for 12/8, 9/8, and 6/8 notation? These are issues that should be patched as a matter of course, not features!

Examples of genuinely new features (culled from updates over the years) would be the DAW plugin mode, the ACW, the ability to save mono audio as MIDI, the ability to open and save in ABC file format, usertracks, loops that transpose with the chordsheet, etc.

3. Fix the bugs!

+1,000,000,000 (and see regrading 2, above, as they are closely related). Can we drag Realband out of the 1980s please? Get an outside team and a technical writer or two if you must, say it costs you the amount of $ you would spend on developing, what 10, 25, 100 realtracks? Once done it's done, and can be updated relatively efficiently.

Would anyone here not sacrifice dozens or RealTracks for a decent GUI and coherent manual--a manual that isn't just the same one from the last decade with the upgraded feature text copy-pasted into relevant sections...

As a closing note, I would like to express my utmost respect and admiration for the folks at PG music and the incredible product they produce. You guys are cool af, but you need to listen, and respond to your consumer base more consistently (IMHO).

Peace to all, and happy new year!

Deacon








Edited by DeaconBlues09 (01/01/18 08:12 AM)
Edit Reason: A word
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#448399 - 01/01/18 07:51 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Cerio]
Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 36
Loc: Inlet Beach, FL
jazzi Offline
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Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 36
Loc: Inlet Beach, FL
What I would love to see is a clear, well-written, and concise guide to the most used features based on the 80/20 rule for usability.

Don't get me wrong, I like the program, and have been able to figure out most of what I need, but guides targeted to different types of users would be so useful. I'll wager that jazz musicians are the power users, but people like singer-songwriters might need a completely different entry point, especially with emphasis on simple accompaniment styles, etc.

The basic principle for software usability is that it should be based on making software easy to learn quickly by the average user. That way, not only the 20 percent will grasp it, but 80 percent will also understand. It might take a third-party product to do this, but so far I haven't found one.
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BIAB 2018 Win/Finale 2014/Audacity
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#448422 - 01/01/18 09:20 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: DeaconBlues09]
Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2332
JohnJohnJohn Offline
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Registered: 06/25/12
Posts: 2332
Originally Posted By: DeaconBlues09
BTW, what does everyone think about the Xtra Styles Paks being sold at extra cost? I wonder if PG has too much of an incentive to "hold back" with their best/freshest content so they can make some extra bucks.

I think these should be included as a free bonus for loyal customers who upgrade every year. I remain unconvinced they are worth what they charge for them.

Quote:
I'd much rather have many of the styles I heard Demo'd in the YT vids than the Klezmer and Mariachi.

I am puzzled as to why so many of the new RealTracks are Klezmer. I cannot see this being a much sought after style!

Quote:
the whole "50 new features each year thing" creates a tremendous disincentive for BiaB go 'hoard' fixes and updates that should really be released continuously throughout the year.

To throw out a few examples culled from the 2018 features--organizing the cluttered folders? Saving MP3 in a quality better than 64kbps? Skins? A floating mixer? Support for 12/8, 9/8, and 6/8 notation? These are issues that should be patched as a matter of course, not features!

I agree 100%!

Quote:
Can we drag Realband out of the 1980s please? Get an outside team and a technical writer or two if you must, say it costs you the amount of $ you would spend on developing, what 10, 25, 100 realtracks? Once done it's done, and can be updated relatively efficiently.

Would anyone here not sacrifice dozens or RealTracks for a decent GUI and coherent manual--a manual that isn't just the same one from the last decade with the upgraded feature text copy-pasted into relevant sections...

I have completely given up on the manuals and mostly given up on Realband. I only use it to generate a few bars if I cannot get something to sound decent in BIAB. It has the potential to be so much better.

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#448424 - 01/01/18 09:26 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Cerio]
Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 499
J. Larry Offline
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Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 499
Good suggestions all, even tho’ much of it I don’t use or understand. I use BIAB for live gigs only. Love the real styles. No midi here. I’ve learned to freeze all the tracks, so the tunes load faster. No problem, except for loops. Any particular reason why songs with added loops take so long to load and play---even when frozen? Wish that could be speeded up.

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#448433 - 01/01/18 11:25 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Cerio]
Registered: 12/18/15
Posts: 172
Jon Thomas Offline
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Registered: 12/18/15
Posts: 172
Here's my take.
I think we should consider that people use BIAB in ways that are radically different from each other. If you are a pro composer, an amateur songwriter, a musician that uses BIAB for live gigs, a music teacher etc. I am sure that these people use BIAB in very, very, very different ways.
I also have the feeling that, for that reasons, many users use just a small minority of the MANY features that BIAB has to offer - but for each person, THOSE features are absolutely essential. I am an example of that. I think I probably use 5% of BIAB features, no kidding. But I am the happiest user in the world (thank you PG !!!!!!)
And yes, in my "ideal world", BIAB should develop only the features I use smile
But saying that would be quite silly of me, wouldn't it?
So, this is to say that we should be very careful in suggesting what is important and what is not, because what is important, or even crucial for you, may be irrelevant for many others - and vice versa. For example, I don't use at all RealBand. As far as I am concerned, if RB was abandoned tomorrow by PG Music I couldn't care less. But I understand that for other users RB may be crucial. I could go on with other similar examples.
So, what's my point, you ask?
My point is that I don't want to tell PG Music what specific features should be developed, which specific ones should be abandoned, which specific new ones should be introduced. I think only the folks at PG Music know this, better than anybody else.
However, there are some GENERAL issues that, I presume, affect most if not all BIAB users. And these are the ones mentioned in the first post of this thread:

1. RealTracks.
This is the "core" of BIAB. I cannot immagine any BIAB user who doesn't benefit greatly from having more / better realtracks. So, my feeling is that if PG Music develops more, better, higher quality, wider variety of Realtracks, all users will be happy.

2. Features: improve / fine tune / develop the features that are already there, rather than implementing new ones.
Now this could be debatable. However, BIAB is SO RICH already in features, that honestly I think that most if not all users would greatly benefit from a fine tuning of existing features (esepcially the ones that don't work so well - UserTracks comes to mind ...) rather than having a gazillion new features every year.

3. Bugs and Interface
Again, this is something that everyone would benefit. Who wouldn't want a better interface and a more stable program?

So basically, I'm repeating what the first poster said smile
As I said before, I totally agree with that first post.

And thak you again PG for this incredible product.
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BIAB 2018 Audiophile edition
Win 7, 64 bit

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#448493 - 01/01/18 04:51 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Jon Thomas]
Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2558
Loc: Sterling, Va
raymb1 Offline
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Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2558
Loc: Sterling, Va
+1 for your post. I too use only a small part of BIAB for what I need to do. My number one request would be the ability to enter 8 chords to the bar instead of just the present 4.
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#448536 - 01/01/18 10:35 PM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: WendyM]
Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 113
BBB Offline
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Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 113
Hi Wendy,

Let's get rid of the attitude......... Or I may have to tell Pepe about this!! LOL

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#448629 - 01/02/18 11:07 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Cerio]
Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 499
J. Larry Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 499
The Jon Thomas post is spot on, in my view. I can think that, but not articulate it like that. Is it crazy to suppose, that as BIAB continues to develop, that different levels of the product might become available----such as versions/features appropriate for song writers, hobbyists, live play, etc.? Or, might that just create more confusion among consumers? Some DAWs offer entry levels, up to more advanced. Heck, I’d spring for a hardware version of BIAB, if such were possible, designed and built by PG Music specifically for live play-----that was rock solid, with high quality audio, and stereo outputs.

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#448773 - 01/03/18 06:13 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: raymb1]
Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 1917
Loc: Ontario, Canada
BlueAttitude Offline
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Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 1917
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: raymb1
+1 for your post. I too use only a small part of BIAB for what I need to do. My number one request would be the ability to enter 8 chords to the bar instead of just the present 4.


Yes, that to me is something that should have been done YEARS ago.

I suspect the reason it hasn't is because that 4 chords per bar limitation must be hard-coded deep within the bowels of BIAB and would require a major rewrite to fix.
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#448784 - 01/03/18 06:47 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Cerio]
Registered: 12/18/15
Posts: 172
Jon Thomas Offline
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Registered: 12/18/15
Posts: 172
Yes, also i think that all or most realtracks would have to be re-recorded. ... unimaginable ...
Anyway, just to confirm how much each user is different,having 8 chords per bar would not be something that I would need, hardly at all ... users' needs are very, veruy different ...


Edited by Jon Thomas (01/03/18 06:47 AM)
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#448789 - 01/03/18 06:58 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: Jon Thomas]
Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 1917
Loc: Ontario, Canada
BlueAttitude Offline
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Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 1917
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Jon Thomas
Yes, also i think that all or most realtracks would have to be re-recorded. ... unimaginable ...
Anyway, just to confirm how much each user is different,having 8 chords per bar would not be something that I would need, hardly at all ... users' needs are very, veruy different ...


It's not so much that you need 8 chords per bar, not for me anyway. It is being able to place a chord on an offbeat, i.e. the 'and' of the beat.

Currently the hack workaround is to use the 'push' function so you can drop a chord on the 'and' (push by 1/8), but pretty much useless most of the time because you can't follow it with a chord on the next beat.
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#448795 - 01/03/18 07:19 AM [Band-in-a-Box Wishlist] Re: My three wishes for BIAB 2019. [Re: BlueAttitude]
Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2558
Loc: Sterling, Va
raymb1 Offline
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Registered: 05/24/05
Posts: 2558
Loc: Sterling, Va
Originally Posted By: BlueAttitude
Originally Posted By: Jon Thomas
Yes, also i think that all or most realtracks would have to be re-recorded. ... unimaginable ...
Anyway, just to confirm how much each user is different,having 8 chords per bar would not be something that I would need, hardly at all ... users' needs are very, veruy different ...


It's not so much that you need 8 chords per bar, not for me anyway. It is being able to place a chord on an offbeat, i.e. the 'and' of the beat.

Currently the hack workaround is to use the 'push' function so you can drop a chord on the 'and' (push by 1/8), but pretty much useless most of the time because you can't follow it with a chord on the next beat.


+1 I can think of only a couple of songs where I would need 6-8 chords in a bar. Your post, BlueAttitude, is spot on.
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PG Music News
RealBand 2019 Online and PDF Manuals Available!

Visit our Online Manuals support page for access to the latest RealBand 2019 for Windows program manuals!

RealBand 2019 for Windows User's Guide: Online Manual | PDF Download
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RealBand 2019 is included in every purchase of Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows! We're having a SALE on Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Upgrade purchases until December 31, 2018 - save over 40% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Upgrade! Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Online and PDF Manuals Available!

Visit our Online Manuals support page for access to the latest Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows program manuals!

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows User's Guide: Online Manual | PDF Download
Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Upgrade Manual: Online Manual | PDF Download

Don't forget.... We're having a SALE on Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Upgrade purchases until December 31, 2018 - save over 40% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Upgrade! Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 on a USB 3.0 Hard Drive - Speed Thrills!

We're excited to say that all Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows UltraPAK and UltraPAK+ orders now ship on a USB 3.0 hard drive!

What does this mean? Faster hard drive transfer rates will enhance the program operations (faster time to generate tracks, reduced audio artifacts) and offer faster transfer speeds (typically up to 3x faster)!

It's a great time to order your UltraPAK or UltraPAK+ Upgrade... they're ON SALE until December 31st!

Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows® New Features!

Our "Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows®! New Features, RealTracks, and other content!" video is now ready! Get to know all about the newest features in Band-in-a-Box® 2019: Click here to watch...

We have listed a table of contents for this video, you'll see it within the YouTube video description, or by visiting this forum post.

RealBand 2019 - A New Look!

Have you opened up your RealBand 2019 yet? You may notice that we've given it a fresh new look! In fact, there are now 3 different looks to RealBand.

See for yourself! Within the program, visit Options | Icon Set and choose from: Classic, Modern 1, or Modern 2.

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows - Choosing to Run 64-bit or 32-bit

We heard you! With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows we've included the BRAND NEW 64-bit version of Band-in-a-Box®, which works well with the latest plugins and 64-bit OS features! Because not everyone has a 64-bit computer, we include both the 64-bit and 32-bit versions with your purchase - you choose which one to use!

By default, when you install your Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows the 32-bit version will run.

The steps to run the 64-bit version are simple! Just head to your "bb" folder and choose the "bbw64" icon - you'll notice that the Band-in-a-Box® "splash screen" will state "64-bit" as the program opens.
(and if you open the 32-bit version, the "splash screen" will state "32-bit")

Still not certain which version you're running? Within the program, go to Help | About Band-in-a-Box - it'll either state:

Band-in-a-Box® for Windows
Version 2019 (604)
<--- the number in brackets is the build number - this will change as new patch updates are released
64 bit application

or:

Band-in-a-Box® for Windows
Version 2019 (604)
<--- the number in brackets is the build number - this will change as new patch updates are released
32 bit application

We hope everyone who can is enjoying their Band-in-a-Box® 2019 64-bit version for Windows!

NEW! Style-style-style Additions and Enhancements in Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows!

With over 64 new features and enhancements in Band-in-a-Box® 2019, we've made sure to add to, enhance, and update some of the Style features within the program: StylePicker, StyleMaker, and Song Titles browser within the StylePicker!

StylePicker Enhancements:
-If the style list needs rebuild, it tells you that within the StylePicker, instead of a message that requires a response.
-The rebuild is faster than before by 75%. It takes 1/4 of the time now.
-While the style list is being rebuilt, you can see the progress inside the StylePicker.
-The style list can be filtered by a specific RealTracks/RealDrums/MIDI SuperTracks or RealTracks/MIDI SuperTracks in a certain number range.
-You can filter the style list by a specific Xtra Styles PAK.
-The dialog to select an Xtra Styles PAK has a button to take you to the PG Music website that shows information about Xtra Styles PAKs.
-The StylePicker can list all styles (including N/A styles) in the default display.
-The Set number display is improved, including sort by type and Xtra styles.

StyleMaker Improvements:

-The new MIDI velocity offset allows you to make styles with altered loudness for MIDI tracks.
-Styles can be saved with information like a memo, examples, genres, and more, which will be displayed in the StylePicker.
-You can import information from another style. This is useful when you are making a similar style.
-A style can have a huge number of RealTracks (up to 70!) because the StyleMaker now supports RealTracks multi/medley feature, which allows a single track to have up to 10 simultaneous playing of RealTracks.

Song Titles Browser Enhancement

-We’ve added 300 more song titles including requests from users, so there are now over 10,600 titles.
-The chord density filter is available, and it’s also displayed in the memo.
-The chord complexity filter is available.

Review all the new features of Band-in-a-Box® 2019 here.

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