Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Yes, in the studio I listen carefully to any opinion the engineer offers. He or she normally doesn't say much if the producer if good, so when they do say something, it's the product of a lot of experience talking. Good for you, Bob.
And yes, I would quickly go crazy working with anyone who wasn't sharp on theory.
_________________________ BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.
Loc: Marysville, Mi. USA
Charlie! I spent 5 minutes replying to you only to see a message that the post I was replying to got deleted!
Matt, the more time I spend with them the more I get the group dynamics and intent of their project, so each week I get more comfortable suggesting things. The fact that they are objective and consider my input also encourages this. Some bands don't want to hear it, so I just sit there and push buttons and sliders .. and I'm OK with that too. <grin>
Make your sound your own!
I find this puzzling I ask myself would a person with absolutely no musical understanding be interested in creating music. If so would they not at least attempt to get some basic understanding.
I once played guitar for an old time dance band back in the early 70's. The band leader insisted we could read and her best reader was her trumpet player. She would tell us what tunes we were playing and hand out the sheets. However, she would hand out the sheet say in the key of C the proceed to play in Bb. The next night play the same sheet and play in F or maybe A. I asked the trumpet player how he coped. His reply was " Don't tell her I can't really read. I just work out where she is and follow the dots up and down, I know how long the notes are, but I don't know what's what". My opinion was this guy knew music and did in fact sort of read and transpose on the fly better than most.
Over the years I have spent a lot of time helping people by backing folk in country music clubs. At these country music clubs members come along to sing a song. If you were lucky enough to get a chord sheet of any meaning you often had to listen to what the artist was doing and work things out on the fly. In these cases experience outweighs the ability to read. To be able to play solos based on what the artist was singing and or help them out when they faltered was a priority.
These days I can't read a note but I do understand what should go where. At 69 I can still play guitar blindfolded or behind my head. I just can't play it as well as I did 40 years ago but I still enjoy it and it is great to go around nursing homes (and other places) having people singing along with me and enjoying a good time.
HP i7-4770 16GB 512G SSD, Win 10 Home, Roland Quad Capture, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster + more BB 2019 (613) RB 2019 (2), CakeWalk by BandLab, Reaper, Audacity, Melodyne
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Teunis
...These days I can't read a note but I do understand what should go where. At 69 I can still play guitar blindfolded or behind my head. I just can't play it as well as I did 40 years ago but I still enjoy it and it is great to go around nursing homes (and other places) having people singing along with me and enjoying a good time.
To be honest, I can't think of any single thing that could possibly be wrong with that. Not a single thing. Keep at it.
Reading, while it is a helpful tool, is not always necessary. You'd just not really get calls for session work where it is a sight reading gig, and there is not a lot of that around much anymore. It is quite easy to get by playing copy dates because you can learn "songs" without learning "music" (they ARE 2 different things). But the statement can never be made that a player who read sis somehow "better" than a player who does not.
The thing about someone with a background comes into play where you go to a rehearsal and the guy leading the song will say "This is in C." You can then immediately envision C-F-G with a Dm, and Am, possibly an Em tossed in somewhere for flavor. THOSE guys are easier to lead around the maze of a brand new song than the ones who have to hear a song 150 times before they know the chord changes. The readers and more heavily steeped in theory players are likely listening to the song for the first time and writing a chord chart, where a guy who doesn't have the chord recognition tool in his bag wouldn't know what to write, only to remember that "at this place change to this chord".
One great example I can give you was a spot in a song in C where there is a breakout section that went Dm, Bdim, F. Gsus, G.... to say that to someone who doesn't know what notes make up that Bdim, you may as well be speaking French to a Cuban. But to tell that guy "B, D F, G# or Ab (however he chooses to think of that note - I would say Ab)" then he can play it. And he has probably played it before without knowing he was playing a Bdim.
It's a personal choice that I don't like to learn by ear, which comes from not liking to play other people's songs like they played them. But back to what I said earlier, and closer to topic, that doesn't mean I think I am better than someone else because they never learned theory. I just have that "tool" in my bag.
I will continue to post in the songwriters forum but will pretty much be keeping my opinions to myself as far as the off topic forum goes.
I have zero formal musical training but I have managed to become reasonably proficient (D level) at 3 chord rock and blues on guitar and bass. I know one scale (pentatonic, ok so maybe that's 2 scales Pentatonic minor and Pentatonic major!). But I have learned enough that I can play and write songs. If you want to make music, especially with others, it is useful to understand the basics of musical language, like chords, keys, what I-IV-V means, etc. But the concepts are not that hard.
I expect any musical training techniques could be put into biab as an option. So the numbering system could easily work alongside chords, and be voiced as well, whilst you are learning the song. Such auto familiarisation would lead to acquiring a worthwhile skill.
Using: Dell 3268 i3, 8 GB ram, windows 10. Biab version 2017 standard package, no extras.
Funny and interesting tread. I have not played any instrument for a very long time. But when I was younger, I used to play Trumpet, guitar, bass, and simple piano. After starting with BiaB i have not played anything, except making/arranging songs in BiaB. I really love BiaB. When I was young and listen to music, I always dreamed about making something similar. And now I can. By using BiaB... I actually stil have a trumpet, a keyboard and a USB Wind instrument. It is just that I am to lazy to start playing again I guess. Or, it is just to much more easy for me to work on stuff in BiaB.
Forever Grateful Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2018 Audiophile, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Originally Posted By: eddie1261
This software provides a great opportunity for people to write songs even if they don't play, so I wonder 2 things. Which group do you fit in?
A. I have had zero music education in my life. B. I do not play an instrument. All my songs are 100% software created. C. I play an instrument but not all that well. D. I play at a fairly proficient level. E. I am a monster player.
And the second question is for only people who are in group A.
If you have had zero music training, how do you know what to enter into the chord sheet page to create your songs?
When I said zero music training, I meant zero. Like if you don't know that there are 12 keys, how do you know what to put in on bar 1?
This question grew from someone asking me about the software. She said "Oh that's cheating. If that's all that takes ANYBODY can write songs."
So I invited her over. Sat her at the computer. Started Real band. Got her to the chord entry page, and said "Go. Write a song if it's that easy."
She: "What do I do here?" Me; "Enter your chord progression." She: "What's a chord?" Me: "What do you mean what's a chord? You said anybody could do this. Even with no music skills."
And that ended the discussion. (And I likely will never see her again. LOL!)
It is hard for people who play or have played, and/or had training either in school or on stage, to understand that we speak in terms that contain implied knowledge. To tell someone "A major chord is 1-3-5." evokes the question "What's a 1? What's a 3? What's a 5?" WE know that it means the steps of a scale, which would then evoke the question "What's a scale?"
So, again, I am just curious. The people I know here who have been around a while, I know your level of experience and education, but some of the newer names or just people with whom I have never interacted, I am curious to know your music education and experience level, if you read, etc....
I was just about to post a question similar to this. In the steel pan world, most of the players are taught using the rote system. For anyone here who does not know what that means, the rote system is a system where the player is tough strictly by observation, aural communication, and hand guidance (the band leader will come up to the player and move the hands to show which note to play). These people have no musical training, music theory, sight reading skills, or composition skills. This is not just the players but the band leaders and arrangers. Yes, most of the arrangers or band leaders do not have any musical knowledge and somehow they are able to create some very complicated pieces whether an original or just a steel band arrangement. I would say that the players and band leaders/ arrangers are A when it comes to musical education, but E when it comes to playing, but there are steel bands and player, mainly in the states who can read sheet music and understand music theory. As for me, I would say that I'm a C-D with the steel pan, but I don't know much complex theory and I did go to school for music under music production.
I am going to post some videos of famous Panorama tunes for you all to showcase what A level musical knowledge but E playing looks like. Panorama is the biggest carnival musical event in Trinada and Tobago where the steel pan was founded. Each band made up of hundreds of people in the large band category, play a new piece arranged for that band each year for a chance to win $10,000.
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro, DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard, music producer/engineer
Loc: Sterling, Va
There are too many examples to count of musicians who play by rote. There are still certain things one has to have some musical knowledge to do. Like Eddie said, how can you enter a chord if you don't know what a chord is? What is a quarter note, what is a quarter note rest, etc...........? You can't play with a band that uses charts to play without knowing how to read. Count Basie's band didn't have music on their stands but they had all the charts memorized. So many instances where one has to have some musical knowledge.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
Summary of changes for build 614:
Fixed: Songs would not save plugins on tracks that had a Hi-Q patch selected previously.
Fixed: Hi-Q Patches would not load if the Sforzando VSTi was not in the VSTi plugin list.
Fixed: The Sforzando VSTi was not automatically being added to the VSTi plugin list during bootup (64 bit only).
Fixed: Loading the Hi-Q patch "Hi-Q 040 01 Synth, Analog, FatBass Sforzando" would cause an access violation error.
Fixed: Track Settings > Set Track offset  was not working properly.
Fixed: Importing MusicXML files was failing to include melody notes and lyrics.
DAW Plugin 1.10.4 fixes:
Improved: Generation is much faster, at least 4X.
Added: Notification dialog when generation is complete, and a setting to toggle this on/off.
Added: 32-Bit AAX plugin for Pro Tools 10.
Fixed: Soloist not generating on first attempt.
Fixed: MIDI tracks could be rendered at wrong tempo in the Master.
Fixed: Multiriff playback and bar highlighting
Added: Much faster MIDI renders: "No MIDI Renders" option in Custom Generate menu. If this is selected, any MIDI tracks will be left as MIDI and not rendered to wave which takes time.
Summary of changes:
Fixed: Songs would not load or save VST data if larger than 1 megabyte, displaying flash message error "VST/FX data is too large to save".
Fixed: It was not possible to use the N key while entering note based lyrics in the Notation window.
Fixed: Recorded MIDI would be erased if also recording audio.
Fixed: The MIDI Driver dialog would not show the selected VSTi or DXi synth after choosing one in the Plugins window.
Updated: PDF and help file documentation.
Band-in-a-Box DAW Plugin 1.9.28 fixes:
There are lots of significant fixes and additions in this patch, especially related to some single track operations not working.
Fixed: Right-clicking generate bass track generated all individual tracks
Fixed: StylePicker, RealTracks Picker, and other style and instrument selection windows would sometimes open behind the main window, requiring you to alt+tab to see them.
Fixed: Loading demo from StylePicker or loading a song when a special track was already present sometimes added an extra RealTracks (special track) to page 2
Fixed: Output directory error.
Fixed: BBW sometimes not receiving message when run as administrator. This would cause some actions to hang or not work at all.
Fixed: Skip grey bars when moving selector through chordsheet.
Fixed: Dragging tracks into Reason would sometimes give a 'Not found' error message.
Fixed: AAX Plugin was not being recognized by Pro Tools.
Fixed: Problem scrolling chord table when crossing PartMarker during highlight.
Fixed: Repaint problem in Reason (possibly other DAWs).
Fixed: Some opened BB songs with realcharts on a frozen track would cause an access violation.
Added: Detailed log file written in BB Data folder bbw4exe_pluginLog.txt.
Fixed: Generation of single tracks would hang the program if the bb folder contained the file MaxPluginsToScan.txt containing Max=0. This file should not normally be present except in rare cases where a DX plugin scan failed.
Added: VST2 FX 32-bit version.
Improved: Installer has options for installing all plugin types. All files are now digitally signed.
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