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#447075 - 12/24/17 12:51 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Real Mac version
Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 792
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
Islansoul Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/15/15
Posts: 792
Loc: St. Petersburg , FL
I know I've been on a rant about this but when can we get a real Mac BIAB version? Every year PG Music forces us to wait six months before the version that the Windows users get and take out all the features the Windows users get including Real Band. Ask them about every getting a Mac version of Real Band and they will laugh at out. It makes me want to puke. JUST SUPPORT MAC USERS. Hire a team for the Mac version and if it cost a little more to buy the next version, I'd pay for it. I just want what the Windows users get and not some half-butt version that they make just to be "Mac friendly". Please do not give my b.s. that more people use PC or that Apple should burn down when most audio people use Mac, and Mac users don't need additional drivers and soundcards to get their audio programs to work. In fact, most products other companies make for audio are made for both Mac and PC and are released at the same time with the same features. So PG Music, if you do read this you should feel embraced because I am not the only one out there who is ticked off.

Take a look at this
I think this just reiterates how much it is - high time that PG Music spend some developer resources to finally bite the bullet and consolidate their code-base to be truly cross-platform - due to the many lacking features in the OSX version compared to Windows.

We OSX users are second-rate citizens. And yet the Mac is clearly the preferred operating system and computers used by most pro musicians and producers who use computers as their way of music creation or performance.

There is still some ugly PASCAL based bits of code and GUI going right back to the days of the ATARI ST. PG Music are just too unwilling to commit developer resources to remove it. Which would involve a rewrite of some code in a modern language.

And also the most pain-free, low latency and most supported platform audio-wise. Hence why even now in 2017 it is still a free - independently developed audio driver ASIO - and other bits of middleware that one is forced to use if one wants low latency with ones DAW on Windows - even Windoze 10.

I cannot think of another music software company that has a constant release-version disparity and long lag between the windows and OSX version.

The version numbers get a different release date - and yet EVEN when version numbers match for a few months - say 2017 - it is the case that feature sets don't match.

Shoddy.

Yet PG has been getting away with this for decades.
_________________________
Computer: Mid 2014 Macbook Pro,
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer

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#447084 - 12/24/17 01:41 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Real Mac version [Re: Islansoul]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 14083
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 14083
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Islansoul
I know I've been on a rant about this but when can we get a real Mac BIAB version? Every year PG Music forces us to wait six months before the version that the Windows users get and take out all the features the Windows users get including Real Band. Ask them about every getting a Mac version of Real Band and they will laugh at out. It makes me want to puke. JUST SUPPORT MAC USERS. Hire a team for the Mac version and if it cost a little more to buy the next version, I'd pay for it. I just want what the Windows users get and not some half-butt version that they make just to be "Mac friendly". Please do not give my b.s. that more people use PC or that Apple should burn down when most audio people use Mac, and Mac users don't need additional drivers and soundcards to get their audio programs to work. In fact, most products other companies make for audio are made for both Mac and PC and are released at the same time with the same features. So PG Music, if you do read this you should feel embraced because I am not the only one out there who is ticked off.

Take a look at this
I think this just reiterates how much it is - high time that PG Music spend some developer resources to finally bite the bullet and consolidate their code-base to be truly cross-platform - due to the many lacking features in the OSX version compared to Windows.

We OSX users are second-rate citizens. And yet the Mac is clearly the preferred operating system and computers used by most pro musicians and producers who use computers as their way of music creation or performance.

There is still some ugly PASCAL based bits of code and GUI going right back to the days of the ATARI ST. PG Music are just too unwilling to commit developer resources to remove it. Which would involve a rewrite of some code in a modern language.

And also the most pain-free, low latency and most supported platform audio-wise. Hence why even now in 2017 it is still a free - independently developed audio driver ASIO - and other bits of middleware that one is forced to use if one wants low latency with ones DAW on Windows - even Windoze 10.

I cannot think of another music software company that has a constant release-version disparity and long lag between the windows and OSX version.

The version numbers get a different release date - and yet EVEN when version numbers match for a few months - say 2017 - it is the case that feature sets don't match.

Shoddy.

Yet PG has been getting away with this for decades.


Islansoul,

No-one ever forces you to buy the program. It's always your choice, your decision. As you know, if, after you buy BIAB, and you are not happy with it, PG Music offer a 30-day money-back guarantee with no questions asked.

It seems to me that PG Music do everything right by their customers.

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


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#449168 - 01/04/18 09:23 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Real Mac version [Re: Islansoul]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 122
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 122
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
I’m with Islansoul.

The Mac version is an afterthought. It shows that PG Music gives little thought to those of us who don’t like Windows.

From advertised and documented features that don’t work to ancient code to lack of Real Band, the list goes on.

We buy it because it works and nothing else does the job. I don’t notice that our version costs less, however.

My concern is that the 2018 version for Mac will be another kluge instead of the rewrite that we deserve. I’ll buy it (only if 64 bit) but it may be the last time if the Mac version never catches up to Windows.

BIAB 2018 for Mac does need to be 64 bit or there’s no point and many of us will not buy it, myself included. I don’t like the idea of moving BIAB 2017 to a separate drive that I use for it and nothing else but, without a version I can run on my boot drive, I’ll have no other choice.

Rant over.


Edited by Mike Halloran (01/04/18 09:25 PM)
_________________________
BIAB Audiophile on 2010 iMac i7, 32G RAM, 2T SSD, OS 10.13.3
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Old G4-1K DP OS 10.4.11 / OS 9.2, Legacy Apps

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#449264 - 01/05/18 09:39 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Real Mac version [Re: Islansoul]
Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13645
PeterGannon Offline
PG Music Staff

Registered: 05/29/00
Posts: 13645
The Mac version of Band-in-a-Box is already close to the Windows version. This is something that's happened over the last few years. It has always had identical musical content, so musically sounded the same, this was just adding in some features that were missing.

About 5 years ago, the BiaB Mac version was signifcantly behind the Windows version. Since then, we have worked hard and made them close to equal*, and in some respects the Mac version is better**

* the Mac version was lacking some things that are now present, and identical to the Windows version, such as
- notation and lead sheet window
- audio edit window
- modern chord sheet window
- VST and AU plugins
- SFZ Sforzando synth and custom sounds
..... these are all the major functions added/improved over the last few years, and they are now identical on Mac and Windows
FYI, they are the same code base. Note that the content (Realtracks, styles, songs etc) have always been the same in Mac and Windows versions.

- the Mac version still lacks a piano roll window. This isn’t that popular on the Windows version, and we do plan to add it to Mac in future.

** Mac version is better than Windows version for plugins (simpler system with more features) and MIDI and audio drivers (one simple low latency system that works well, instead of Windows which has 3 systems MME,WAS,ASIO that work best in different interfaces/systems)
_________________________
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.

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#449401 - 01/05/18 09:35 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Real Mac version [Re: PeterGannon]
Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 991
Loc: somewhere in outer space
w Offline
Expert

Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 991
Loc: somewhere in outer space
Mr. Peter Gannon,

Thank you for providing the facts and setting the record straight about the two versions Mac and Windows.

I am sure that not every thing is rosy with the Window 's version.

I am committed to Apple software and hardware and have been using/purchasing the Mac version for more than 30 years. If any one requires floppy disk i have a box load available for free giveaway.

And as you say they are close to equal*, and in some respects the Mac version is better**. The Mac Band in a Box for my intended use keeps getting better and better. I am also sure it must be a programmers nightmare trying to balance out the two versions.
_________________________
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#449467 - 01/06/18 07:17 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Real Mac version [Re: Islansoul]
Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 138
nonchai Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 138
Well said Islansoul.

My chief gripe has been the lack of a Piano-roll MIDI note-editor.

But really by now - just like other developers - PG should have gotten their act together to rework their code base to be truly cross platform so they can once for all release simultaneously for both platforms.

There are cross-platform C++ frameworks that have been around for ages - some even specialising in audio apps - such as JUCE and QT that make this possible.

It may well be the case that the market on PC is bigger than Mac. But its also the case that OSX is the number one platform used by professional and serious musicians, recording engineers and working composers.

Its time OSX got treated fairly.

I've been paying for BIAB since it first came out for Atari ST so have a long history of supporting PG with my money. Time we got a little back for our loyalty.

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#449473 - 01/06/18 07:36 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Real Mac version [Re: PeterGannon]
Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 138
nonchai Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 138
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon

- the Mac version still lacks a piano roll window. This isn’t that popular on the Windows version, and we do plan to add it to Mac in future.


I've been hankering after this for ages. I really want to be able to compose new melodies using a piano-roll - and tweak the arrangement/chord-progressions on the fly. This to me seems a very obvious way of composing for those who think in terms of chord progression plus melody.

My other platform for composing is Ableton - where I love the MIDI editing - and SESSION page. The Piano-roll editor in that isn't as powerful MIDI editing wise as say Cubase or Logic but sufficient.

I simply don't like to create and edit melodies etc using conventional music notation EVEN IF I do read music and am trained classically. I just find the Piano-Roll convention to be natural.

Ableton is superb for composition - why ? because it allows one to go from a pattern-centric collection of ideas and finalise them ( in the arrangement page ) into a linear composition after that. This i find superb and inspiring.

But from more of a jazz/fusion type angle there is also a side of me which thinks in terms of chord-progression plus melody. And for this BIAB would be perfect to compose in. IF...... IF.... it had that MIDI Piano-roll editor.

Maybe Peter - there could be ways of improving the MIDI Note editing functionality which would make it more popular on windows too.

For example allowing an arbitrary number of MIDI tracks to be created and edited apart from just the MELODY track.

Maybe too there could be a option in BIAB to "FREEZE" a BIAB generated MIDI track ( Supertrack or just plain MIDI style ) into a MIDI track which could then be edited for final tweaking.

Many many years ago I briefly did own the Windows version - using Parallels on my mac - but it didnt work out. just seemed kludgy. And I never got on with the REALBAND app. For me the way BIAB works is ideal and for something more DAW-like i'd much rather just be working in Ableton or a proper DAW.

Please DO add Piano-Roll editing. But do also make sure to make it absolutely useable - as easy, robust and user friendly as the Ableton piano-roll. I used to own both Logic and Cubase too ( and Digital Performer for that matter ) but for some reason the Piano-roll in Ableton just seemed much more natural and easy to use. Keyboard shortcuts just worked as one would guess etc etc..

And maybe BIAB just needs to have its Piano-roll functionality shouted more from the rooftops - advertised as a useful feature - or PG could spend some time thinking about how professional composers might want to use MIDI editing and compose from within BIAB.

Maybe this could be a sign that more orchestral movie-composer-style REALTRACKS could be added to BIAB to cater for film TV composers. Currently they use HUGE sample libraries. But at the same time an awful lot of media content is actually pretty predictable - falling into several easily spotted categories and "styles" that lend themselves to becoming "film-TV-composer" REALTRACKS.

A pro-composer could used such BIAB MOVIE-SCORING REALTRACKS as initial style-guides, to quickly put together prototype scores.
Used to submit to a director prior to getting a commission or commissioning a real studio orchestra.
To be able to quickly score an orchestral part without having to manually write out every part in MIDI would be a huge time -saver.

And as i already said most scored orchestral parts aren't actually that sophisticated arrangement wise - but just use simple triads.
Sure - Thomas Newman or Desplat **really** do know how to produce proper rich harmonically engaging orchestral arrangements - and get paid accordingly - but the sheer amount of output material is much much more dumbed down and this. And thus would lend itself to the use of BIAB MOVIE SCORING REALTRACKS!

Give it a thought. And then... please! quickly give us PIANO ROLL EDITING ON OSX!!!


Edited by nonchai (01/06/18 07:40 AM)

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#449532 - 01/06/18 12:17 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Real Mac version [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 4311
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 4311
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Originally Posted By: nonchai
... its also the case that OSX is the number one platform used by professional and serious musicians, recording engineers and working composers.


I would dearly love to see any statistics or research in support of this statement. I don't disagree that it may be your perception but I've never seen any statistics that support such a statement.

None-the-less, I agree that Band-in-a-Box for Windows and Band-in-a-Box for Mac should have the same feature set.

I think PG Music is headed in that direction, the goal gets closer with each program update and PG Music is dedicated to reaching that goal.

I believe discussions concerning enhancements beyond both operating system programs sharing the same set of features is best made in the Wishlist sections of the forum. That is why the wishlists exist.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2019 BiaB (604) UltraPlusPak RB 2019 (Build 2)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Sonar Home Studio - Cakewalk Music Creator 6 - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB SSD
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#450694 - 01/12/18 03:03 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Real Mac version [Re: nonchai]
Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 388
Loc: Australia
Beachboy Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/13/07
Posts: 388
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
.... the Mac version still lacks a piano roll window. This isn’t that popular on the Windows version .....

Well, as someone who uses both MAC 2017 & WIN 2018, I find the above a strange comment. "Isn't that popular" might mean, that they prefer the functionality of a 3rd party Piano roll or the piano roll is not very good but better than nothing. Either way, they still have the option of checking & changing inside BIAB. Piano roll is not a nice option but an essential if you plan to work with Melody (don't get me started on Lyrics - I feel for others like [nonchai] (see below) who even contemplate working with melody and "heaven forbid" lyrics].

Originally Posted By: nonchai
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon

- the Mac version still lacks a piano roll window. This isn’t that popular on the Windows version, and we do plan to add it to Mac in future.
I've been hankering after this for ages. I really want to be able to compose new melodies using a piano-roll - and tweak the arrangement/chord-progressions on the fly. This to me seems a very obvious way of composing for those who think in terms of chord progression plus melody.


This alone is a significant gulf between the MAC & WIN versions.


Edited by Beachboy (01/14/18 12:01 PM)
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#452011 - 01/18/18 10:38 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Real Mac version [Re: Islansoul]
Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 122
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Mike Halloran Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/24/17
Posts: 122
Loc: Sillie Con Valley, California
Interesting that there was no mention about 64 bit or Real Band.

At least, I get to vote with my wallet on the 64 bit issue. I hope that I don't have to. As I alluded to before, I can boot and run 2017 from an external drive over Thunderbolt or eSATA—and I will before I buy any more 32 bit apps or upgrades.


I don't think there's anything wrong with Windows, per se as long as I never have to work in it. Been there, done that, understand it, did tech support, no thanks, never again. If Quick Books couldn't force the change on me (the online version works from a Mac), no reason to believe that I'd jump just to get Real Band.


Edited by Mike Halloran (01/18/18 10:39 AM)
_________________________
BIAB Audiophile on 2010 iMac i7, 32G RAM, 2T SSD, OS 10.13.3
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Old G4-1K DP OS 10.4.11 / OS 9.2, Legacy Apps

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#454511 - 01/29/18 05:13 PM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Real Mac version [Re: PeterGannon]
Registered: 01/29/18
Posts: 14
Loc: Michigan
ZUrlocker Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/29/18
Posts: 14
Loc: Michigan
Peter,
thanks for the update and thank you for being active on the forums. I look forward to the Mac 2018 update.
--Zack
_________________________
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#457680 - 02/15/18 08:16 AM [Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh] Re: Real Mac version [Re: Beachboy]
Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 138
nonchai Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 04/24/10
Posts: 138
Originally Posted By: Beachboy
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
Piano roll is not a nice option but an essential if you plan to work with Melody (don't get me started on Lyrics - I feel for others like [nonchai] (see below) who even contemplate working with melody and "heaven forbid" lyrics].


I've been hankering after this for ages. I really want to be able to compose new melodies using a piano-roll - and tweak the arrangement/chord-progressions on the fly. This to me seems a very obvious way of composing for those who think in terms of chord progression plus melody.


THANK YOU Beachboy! smile

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