You need to be logged in to post
Options
Index
#460207 - 03/03/18 12:12 PM [Off-Topic] Speaking of red-headed stepchildren…
Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3905
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Ryszard Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3905
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Seems like it is fashionable to hate certain segments of the music business. Right now Behringer, a manufacturer of economical music electronics, is the target of much venom. (In the 70s and 80s it was Peavey.)

It has been my experience that Band in a Box is regarded as the Amway of music software. Using it is looked down upon, sometimes as a form of “cheating.” (Come to think of it, I have gotten that here about Master Writer, a songwriting aid.)

Why have people got to be like that?

Okay, my bourbon-fueled philosophical musing is at an end… cool

Richard
_________________________
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

Top
#460210 - 03/03/18 12:19 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8728
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 8728
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Ryszard

It has been my experience that Band in a Box is regarded as the Amway of music software. Using it is looked down upon, sometimes as a form of “cheating.”

Maybe for some. But, the band always turns up on time. The drummer keeps tempo nicely and never plays over the top of the others. He also uses brushes when he's supposed to and only changes over the sticks when you actually want him to. And the bass player is never too loud and never loses his place on the chart while he's too busy checking for pretty talent on the audience. Is it cheating to get that? Nah.
_________________________
BIAB&RB2019(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#460234 - 03/03/18 01:58 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
Registered: 01/29/18
Posts: 14
Loc: Michigan
ZUrlocker Offline
Newbie

Registered: 01/29/18
Posts: 14
Loc: Michigan
In the case of Behringer, some of their reputation comes from having had some low-quality products early in their history. I'm not saying that reputation is deserved today, but it's something they occasionally have to overcome. And I think there's also a view among synth players (like guitar players) that the original designs from the early period (think 50's designs, 60s guitars from Fender, Gibson) are the only way to do things and anyone who tries to do something modern or derivative is misguided or worse.

Reminds me of Monty Python's "4 yorkshiremen"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7wM0QC5LE
_________________________
I wrote a rock opera! It's free at www.rock-opera.com

Top
#460246 - 03/03/18 02:21 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18116
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18116
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I agree with ZUrlocker, Behringer suffered early for not only quality, but also a reputation for 'copying'. I had a mixer that was nothing but hiss. However, I now own a Behringer X-Touch control surface, and I think it's great. Others agree, the build quality seems to have improved. Now, about the lack of manuals...

And shall we dare mention newer Gibson guitars?
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#460249 - 03/03/18 02:29 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11626
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11626
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I agree with ZUrlocker, Behringer suffered early for not only quality, but also a reputation for 'copying'. I had a mixer that was nothing but hiss. However, I now own a Behringer X-Touch control surface, and I think it's great. Others agree, the build quality seems to have improved. Now, about the lack of manuals...

And shall we dare mention newer Gibson guitars?



I have a Behringer Eurorack mixer and a headphone amplified hub that I have had for a number of years now and both work perfectly.

Ah lets not mention newer Gibson's ultra expensive and poorly made guitars.
_________________________
Politicians, like diapers, occasionally need to be changed. Usually for the same reason!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

Top
#460250 - 03/03/18 02:34 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4795
Loc: Florida
90 dB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4795
Loc: Florida
"In the case of Behringer, some of their reputation comes from having had some low-quality products early in their history."


No, their reputation was earned by ripping off other people's designs.




"In June 1997, Mackie accused Behringer of trademark and trade dress infringement, and brought suit seeking $327M in damages[14][18] but such claims were later rejected by the court. In their suit, Mackie said that Behringer had a history of copying products by other manufacturers and selling them as their own.[19] The Mackie suit detailed an instance, in which Behringer was sued by Aphex Systems for copying the Aural Exciter Type F—in that case Aphex Systems won 690,000 Deutsche Mark.[19] The Mackie suit also mentioned similar cases filed by BBE, dbx and Drawmer.[19] On 30 November 1999, the U.S. District Court in Seattle, Washington, dismissed Mackie claims that Behringer had infringed on Mackie copyrights with its MX 8000 mixer, noting that circuit schematics are not covered by copyright laws.[20][21][22]

In 2005, Roland Corporation sued to enforce Roland's trade dress, trademark, and other intellectual property rights with regard to Behringer's recently released guitar pedals.[23] The two companies came to a confidential settlement in 2006 after Behringer changed their designs.[24]"



Regards,


Bob




Edited by 90 dB (03/03/18 02:34 PM)
_________________________
Dyslectics Untie!


https://90dbband.bandcamp.com/

https://soundcloud.com/90-db



Top
#460265 - 03/03/18 05:25 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: 90 dB]
Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3905
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Ryszard Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 3905
Loc: Kennesaw (Atlanta) GA
Behringer’s quality issues were resolved over 10 years ago. Legalities that don’t affect anyone outside of the companies concerned don’t explain the degree of hostility I encounter when I merely mention them. It is as if they were an unpopular politician.

It is the degree of dislike I wonder about, not its origin.
_________________________
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."

Top
#460267 - 03/03/18 05:36 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4795
Loc: Florida
90 dB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/20/10
Posts: 4795
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Ryszard
Behringer’s quality issues were resolved over 10 years ago. Legalities that don’t affect anyone outside of the companies concerned don’t explain the degree of hostility I encounter when I merely mention them. It is as if they were an unpopular politician.

It is the degree of dislike I wonder about, not its origin.





"The Mackie suit detailed an instance, in which Behringer was sued by Aphex Systems for copying the Aural Exciter Type F—in that case Aphex Systems won 690,000 Deutsche Mark.[19] The Mackie suit also mentioned similar cases filed by BBE, dbx and Drawmer.[19] On 30 November 1999, the U.S. District Court in Seattle, Washington, dismissed Mackie claims that Behringer had infringed on Mackie copyrights with its MX 8000 mixer, noting that circuit schematics are not covered by copyright laws.[20][21][22]"



That speaks to the degree of dislike in the Pro Sound community. Don't believe me. Go ask Greg Mackie. grin



Regards,


Bob
_________________________
Dyslectics Untie!


https://90dbband.bandcamp.com/

https://soundcloud.com/90-db



Top
#460272 - 03/03/18 06:28 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18116
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
Matt Finley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/00
Posts: 18116
Loc: Hudson Valley & Lake George NY
I should point out that the problematic Behringer mixer I had was made 16 years ago. I will repeat, I think their quality now is OK.
_________________________
BIAB 2019 Win Audiophile; [& 2018 Mac UltraPak]. Software: Cakewalk, Adobe Audition, Ozone, Encore; Win 10 64 Pro. Hardware: custom i7, 16 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Focusrite 18i20(2), TCE Finalizer, Behringer X-Touch, Adam sub & monitors.

Top
#460320 - 03/04/18 03:39 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Matt Finley]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4727
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4727
Loc: South Carolina
Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
I should point out that the problematic Behringer mixer I had was made 16 years ago. I will repeat, I think their quality now is OK.


I agree. I worked with a band and now a Church that had X32's as well as owned a Behringer X32 digital mixer and it is an awesome mixer and worked flawlessly.
_________________________
BiaB Ultra Pak 2019:RB 2019 Build 2. Windows-7, 64 bit, Home Premium Version with an AMD Athlon II X2 215 Dual-Core Processor and 4GB DDR3 Memory.

Top
#460343 - 03/04/18 05:16 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4515
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
Notes Norton Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 4515
Loc: Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.
I've never owned a Behringer product, but a friend of mine has one. He plays at the same place that we do once a week, he has a mixer and powered speaeker. I've got to hear him, and haven't noticed any problems from the audience location, and I've never heard him complain about it.

I remember when musicians all dissed Peavey the same way. I've had some Peavey gear and I think it was all worth the money I spent for it.

Cheating?

I think the only thing that is really cheating in the music biz is auto-tune. I'm sure others will disagree.

Insights and incites by Notes
_________________________
Bob "Notes" Norton smile Norton Music
http://www.nortonmusic.com

100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Top
#460358 - 03/04/18 06:51 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Notes Norton]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11626
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11626
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: Notes Norton
.....................
Cheating?

I think the only thing that is really cheating in the music biz is auto-tune. I'm sure others will disagree.

Insights and incites by Notes


Although I use auto-tune I agree with you. I think that the worst cheaters are the rap/hip-hop guys that sample other people's music. YMMV
_________________________
Politicians, like diapers, occasionally need to be changed. Usually for the same reason!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

Top
#460379 - 03/04/18 08:56 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6705
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
jazzmammal Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 6705
Loc: Redondo Beach, Ca.
Originally Posted By: MarioD
I think that the worst cheaters are the rap/hip-hop guys that sample other people's music. YMMV


Not true Mario. That was going on way back when like the mid 80's or so when rap/hip hop started, everybody gets credit now and has for years.

Bob
_________________________
Biab/RB latest build, Win 10 64 bit, Intel 4770, 256 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA1XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Top
#460384 - 03/04/18 09:44 AM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: jazzmammal]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11626
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11626
Loc: Hamlin NY
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
Originally Posted By: MarioD
I think that the worst cheaters are the rap/hip-hop guys that sample other people's music. YMMV


Not true Mario. That was going on way back when like the mid 80's or so when rap/hip hop started, everybody gets credit now and has for years.

Bob


Since I don't keep up with rap/hip-hop I didn't know that. Thanx for setting the records straight.
_________________________
Politicians, like diapers, occasionally need to be changed. Usually for the same reason!

64 bit Win 10 Pro - the latest BiaB and RB - Roland Octa-Capture audio interface - a ton of software and some hardware.

Top
#460899 - 03/06/18 03:07 PM [Off-Topic] Re: Speaking of red-headed stepchildren… [Re: Ryszard]
Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 1640
Loc: Midwest
HearToLearn Offline
Expert

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 1640
Loc: Midwest
I liken it to just about anything that has done well. All of the companies mentioned seemed to get their worst reputation when they were REALLY growing.

Just like Nickelback, Britney Spears, McDonalds, Walmart. There seems to be a lot of haters...yet they are selling millions and billions anyway. Even Amway. I had to look it up...8 almost 9 billion last year. REALLY? Wow! They don't care that I didn't buy anything from them. They are too busy succeeding without me! lol

Rock on Behringer!
_________________________
"That's what"
-She

Top


PG Music News
Drum Notation Support in Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows!

One of the newest features added to Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows is Drum Notation Support!
•All the MIDI Drums have drum notation. Play the MIDI Drums and open the Notation window. Then, select the Drums track and you will see drum notation.
•Drum notation can be entered by a user on the Melody/Soloist track.

Learn how to enter MIDI Drums notation when you jump to this topic in our New Features video:
35:18 - New Features: New Track Type - Drum Notation

Customers LOVE the NEW Xtra Styles PAK 6!

Here's what they're saying:
"I can't get enough of the Xtra Styles!"
"These RealStyles are phenomenal!!"
"These are AWESOME!"
"Gypsy Jazz? Yippee!"
"I want them ALL!"
"The Country Xtra Styles are perfect for my songs!"
"Everyone should have these!"

There are 162 more RealStyles now available with Xtra Styles PAK 6 for Band-in-a-Box® 2018 or newer - that means there are more than 900 RealStyles available with Xtra Styles PAKs 1-6!

We're having a SALE! During the month of December, purchase Xtra Styles PAK 6 for just $29! (reg. $49) In fact, each Volume (6 total) is available for just $29 each - we're also offering a special price for a purchase of ALL Volumes 1-6 - for just $159 you can receive ALL 900+ RealStyles!

Review all the different Xtra Styles PAKs for Windows here. Mac user? Click here.

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 - Order in Time for Christmas!

Looking to put Band-in-a-Box® under the tree? It's not too late!

USA/Canada: Order before 12:30 pm Pacific time December 21st for Express delivery
Outside of North America: Order before 12:30 pm Pacific time December 19th.

Order online anytime at www.pgmusic.com and be downloading most products within minutes!

Until December 31, 2018 - save over 40% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Upgrade!

With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows, we've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some amazing Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2019 packages, but for more even more Add-ons (including 40 Unreleased RealTracks) upgrade it to the 2019 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.

Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.

Notation Enhancements in Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows!

There are Notation Enhancements in the NEW Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows! These include:
•A new button in the Print Options dialog which lets you quickly print a "chords only" fake sheet. You can also access this from the right-click menu on the chord sheet.
•A new track type (Drums) is now available for The Melody and Soloist tracks.
•Clicking close to a stave line will put a note on the stave line instead of between stave lines. (Previously, you had to click extremely close to a stave line to insert a note on The line.)
•Double-clicking on the Standard mode Notation window (or on the time line in Editable or Staff Roll mode) plays the song from the current time location. Previously, it played the song from the beginning of the current bar.
•Holding down the [Ctrl] key and pressing the zoom in/out buttons results in finest possible incremental adjustment in size.
•In The Notation Windows Options dialog, The clefs split point asterisk indicates that C5* is middle C.
•Pressing The space bar plays the song from the current time location, not the current bar.
•The clefs split point can be set by the spin controls.
•The right-click menu in the Editable or Staff Roll mode Notation window has an option to change the current beat resolution. Previously, the only way to do this was to right-click on the time line.
•There's a keystroke entry notation mode - the 'N' mode, which lets you enter a melody entirely using keystrokes. The keystrokes are N to enter a note, up/down cursor to change its pitch, and left/right cursor to move the time line.
•You can now edit any track in the Event List Editor. When The dialog opens, it will show you the MIDI data in the current Notation track.
•You can quickly enter forced accidentals from the right-click menu.

We talk about these new features within our Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows®! New Features, RealTracks, and other content! video:
25:45 - New Features: Easy Entering of Notation with the 'N' Key
36:48 - Change Beat Resolution From the Right-Click Menu
37:15 - Easier Entry of Notes on Lines
37:42 - Asterisk to Indicate Middle C on & Spin Controls
37:53 - Force Accidental from the Right-Click Menu
38:01 - Edit Any Track in the Event List
38:09 - Keystroke Note Entry Mode 'N' for Faster Note Entry
38:28 - Print Chords Only Fake Sheet
38:32 - More Control of Notation Size

Rather read about it?
-Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows® Upgrade Manual
-New Feature Summary - Notation Enhancements

The New Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows SongPicker!

With Band-in-a-Box® 2019, the SongPicker has been redesigned!
-The completely redesigned window shows information for up to 50,000 songs.
-The song list build is much faster. Approximately 150 songs get added per second.
-A progress bar will appear if the song list build takes longer than 3 seconds.
-You can see the chord progression for the selected song in the list. You can copy and paste it to a text file.
-Many filters are available. You can filter the list by subfolders, genre, feel, time signature, style, songs with melody, soloist, lyrics, key signature, tempo range, and the year of file dates.
-You can search songs that have similar chord progressions and/or melody fragments.
-Hotkey! ss+enter opens the SongPicker, ss2+enter opens the Recently Played Songs, etc.

Learn more about the updates with our New Features Video - we've made it easy to find the section you'll need:
2:55 - New Feature: Redesigned SongPicker
21:58 - New Features: SongPicker Enhancements
41:10 - Now Over 10,600 Titles in SongPicker

You can also read all about the new SongPicker within our Online Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows® Upgrade Manual.

RealBand 2019 Online and PDF Manuals Available!

Visit our Online Manuals support page for access to the latest RealBand 2019 for Windows program manuals!

RealBand 2019 for Windows User's Guide: Online Manual | PDF Download
RealBand 2019 for Windows New Features Guide: Online Manual | PDF Download

RealBand 2019 is included in every purchase of Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows! We're having a SALE on Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Upgrade purchases until December 31, 2018 - save over 40% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Upgrade! Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Online and PDF Manuals Available!

Visit our Online Manuals support page for access to the latest Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows program manuals!

Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows User's Guide: Online Manual | PDF Download
Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Upgrade Manual: Online Manual | PDF Download

Don't forget.... We're having a SALE on Band-in-a-Box® 2019 Upgrade purchases until December 31, 2018 - save over 40% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Upgrade! Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available

Forum Stats
28480 Members
58 Forums
55411 Topics
461605 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
MDelto, 546213, korelus, ckane, Brasso

28480 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Matt Finley 404
Pipeline 376
Noel96 282
jford 277
VideoTrack 259
PeterGannon 233
Al-David 171
fiddler2007 152
Jim Fogle 135
dcuny 126
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays