You need to be logged in to post
Options
Index
#465066 - 03/31/18 11:02 PM [RealBand Wishlist] get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
robbey10 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
The number 10 channel drum track is dated and annoying VST's are so different than the original midi driver that it is an annoyance to have to skip a channel for every 10th one. it would really bring Powertracks and Realband into the 21st century.

Top
#465167 - 04/01/18 04:22 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5474
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5474
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
-1

No. I could not disagree with this thought more.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2019 UltraPlusPak BiaB(637) RealBand(Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB SSD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top
#465192 - 04/02/18 05:22 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11595
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11595
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
That's not up to PGMusic, because it's part of the MIDI standard. And dropping support will mean every vendor that supports the MIDI standard would also have to change.

The standard would have to change first, and even then I suspect there would be an option for backward compatibility because of the preponderance of already existing content that relies on the standard.

-1 for me also.
_________________________
John

LaptopBeast HP Win7Pro64, 8GB
AudioBeast ASUS Win10Pro64, 16GB
VideoBeast HP Win10Pro64, 8GB

BB-RB2020/UMC404HD/Casio Kbds/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
http://www.sus4chord.com

Top
#466095 - 04/08/18 11:13 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: jford]
Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 10039
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
VideoTrack Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/05/12
Posts: 10039
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I have to agree with Jim and John. Sorry.
-1 also.
_________________________
BIAB&RB2019(Audiophile),Win-10Pro, SonarPlatinum, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, KorgX3R, RodeNGT2, AM802mixer, NS40M StudioMonitors, Pioneer Act. Mons, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Top
#466196 - 04/08/18 08:56 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15750
Loc: Australia
Noel96 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15750
Loc: Australia
robbey,

I'm not sure that I'm following when you mention 'skipping every tenth one'.

Unless my understanding is wrong, one doesn't have to use channel 10 exclusively for drums. It's particularly applicable if running a general midi synth VSTi/DXi but, other than that, if using a non-general midi synth other instruments can be assigned to channel 10.

Is your request about the fact that when a MIDI track is set to channel 10, the name "Drums" is automatically added?

Regards,
Noel
_________________________
LINKS TO MY BIAB/RB SONGS


Top
#466265 - 04/09/18 08:07 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11595
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11595
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
I'm not meaning to be snarky here. i just want to understand.

I believe that this is one of those MIDI conventions you should know if you are getting into MIDI work. Just like tracks and channels are different. Channel 10 doesn't have to be on track 10. Yes, if you import a MIDI file, it tends to match tracks to channels, but you are free (even in PowerTracks and RealBand) to move them around as you see fit. You can make track one be the drum track (I do that all the time), just like you can in all the other 21st century DAW's (which also support channel 10 for General MIDI drums).

And every 10th doesn't make sense to me unless you are using multiple MIDI outputs, since a MIDI port only supports 16 channels (so there can only be one channel 10), but you can put the same channel on multiple tracks.

Just trying to better understand this request.

_________________________
John

LaptopBeast HP Win7Pro64, 8GB
AudioBeast ASUS Win10Pro64, 16GB
VideoBeast HP Win10Pro64, 8GB

BB-RB2020/UMC404HD/Casio Kbds/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
http://www.sus4chord.com

Top
#470665 - 05/01/18 05:08 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
robbey10 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
Have you people tried others, I use Sonor for my final rendering, and you don't have every 10th channel blocked for drums nor does Abelthon or any of the new sequencer? With all the new VST's you put things where you want them and on the channel that you want them. So, if other sequencers can override that, I don't see why I should waste every 10th channel for the same drum track.

Top
#470666 - 05/01/18 05:20 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: Noel96]
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
robbey10 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
No you don't have to use it for drums, however when you don't the picture of the drums is all you can choose for that track and when you are recording the melody you will hear percussion instead of the instrument you have chosen if you are in reroute to midi default mode.

Top
#470755 - 05/02/18 08:02 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11595
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11595
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
I'm still not understanding "every 10th channel". There are only 16 MIDI channels to choose from per MIDI port, so there would only be one "channel 10". And again, that's not on PGMusic, that's the MIDI standard.

If you assign any track to MIDI channel 10, it's going to be interpreted from a MIDI perspective as drums. But you don't have to assign track 10 to channel 10. You can assign it to any channel.

It's been that way for 35 years since the standard was first adopted back in 1983. PGMusic is adhering to the standard, and that's certainly what I would expect.

Please provide some screen shots with more information as to what exactly the problem is. Or maybe someone else is seeing the problem clearly; I certainly am not.

And yes, most of us have used multiple DAW's. You'll see some of them in my signature line.

We would like to help you figure out your specific problem, but I'm pretty sure PGMusic isn't going to change and not support the documented standard for MIDI. And most DAW's I've seen let you assign whatever image you want for that track. There may be a default that pops up, but you can change it.

Even VST's must comply with those rules to be able to process the incoming data. The VST may choose to ignore some of the MIDI stream, but it still must recognize it and adjust accordingly.
_________________________
John

LaptopBeast HP Win7Pro64, 8GB
AudioBeast ASUS Win10Pro64, 16GB
VideoBeast HP Win10Pro64, 8GB

BB-RB2020/UMC404HD/Casio Kbds/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
http://www.sus4chord.com

Top
#470892 - 05/02/18 07:06 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5474
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5474
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Robbey10,

I believe you are confusing midi channels with midi tracks.

A midi instrument uses at least one channel but doesn't have to be limited to a single channel. While recording or composing midi data it is not unusual for midi guitar data to occupy six midi channels (one for each string), a piano to occupy two (left hand and rght hand). At some point though most people consolidate all of an instrument's data into one midi channel unless there is another need. Think about the piano again, you may want to have the left hand panned far left and the right hand panned far right or apply different effects. Then you will have to use two instances of the piano and they will need two midi channels.

Drums however are a special case though because drums don't have one, common sound at different pitches. Instead each note is a different instrument (kick, snare, closed high hat, open high hat, ride cymbal, crash cymbal and so on). That is why drums are assigned their own channel.

By the way, before the general midi (GM) standard was released each hardware manufacturer created their own standard. There was an informal agreement for drums to use channel 10 but some manufactures used channel 16. Microsoft released midi mapper to map midi channels to how your hardware works.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2019 UltraPlusPak BiaB(637) RealBand(Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB SSD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top
#473144 - 05/16/18 02:39 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 117
CoolBreeze Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 117
I think we're talking about multiple ports and exporting midi tracks. You can change all of that channel/program information in your DAW, so the only way it would be encoded would be on export.

Drums are expected to be on channel 10, but it's not mandatory that they are, so unless it's exported that way they you can use all 16 on one port for drums.


I'm not sure about the image thing, you should be able to change that.
_________________________
Windows 10 build 16299
2018 Ultra
Intel i5-3550 @ 3.3GHz
p8z77-v pro
RAM: 32GB
Roland V-Studio 100
Alesis VX49

https://soundcloud.com/dirtbom/

Top
#473224 - 05/17/18 07:57 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7886
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
silvertones Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 05/13/03
Posts: 7886
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
You are totally wrong and best pick up the midi spec book and start reading.
_________________________
John
ESI Gigaport HD+
Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be
15.6" Monitor
"The only Band is a Real Band"
www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php

Top
#473236 - 05/17/18 09:23 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: CoolBreeze]
Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
eddie1261 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/08/11
Posts: 4570
Loc: Akron, Oh
Originally Posted By: CoolBreeze
Drums are expected to be on channel 10, but it's not mandatory that they are, so unless it's exported that way they you can use all 16 on one port for drums.


Note, he said CHANNEL 10, not track 10. Every drum machine I ever had was hard coded to be set on MIDI 10 on boot up. You can move the drums to any TRACK you want. I usually put them on track 1, bass on track 2, just so the foundation tracks are at the top.


Edited by eddie1261 (05/17/18 09:24 AM)

Top
#477495 - 06/12/18 07:23 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: Jim Fogle]
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
robbey10 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 26
No, I am not confusing midi tracks for channels. There are 16 channels and 48 tracks in Pro tracks and Realband. If you load a VST which does limit channel 10 to percussion and you use Cayote are your input but Let's say Kontakt 5 with actions strings on channel 10 the midi will display a picture of drums, it will send a message to Coyote that it should choose a standard drumset and when you play the keyboard, you will hear drums. Until you playback where it will play out of the output that contains Action Strings. And in most modern DAWS this is not the case and hasn't been since the year 2003.


Edited by robbey10 (06/12/18 07:24 PM)

Top
#477576 - 06/13/18 08:59 AM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11595
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
jford Online   content
Veteran

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 11595
Loc: Pensacola, Florida
I don't understand using Coyote as your input. Coyote is a synth to which you output, not input. Coyote isn't sending anything to Action Strings; the information on the actual track is (channel assignment, notes, other controls). But it's not coming from Coyote.

Coyote is a multi-timbral synth that contains the standard 16 MIDI channels (and channel 10 is reserved for drums there also). If you rechannel your track to a different channel (not 10), Coyote will play using that channel and it won't be drums.

And you can set each and every track in RealBand to whatever MIDI channel you want. And if you assign your synths to different ports, you can have every track on the same channel, but it will only play through the assigned port (and that particular synth's sound).

So again, to eliminate channel 10 as the percussion/drum channel would require a change to the GM standard and changes to every single GM compliant synth out there (not just BIAB or RealBand or Coyote...). Kontakt (with which you would play something like Action Strings) is NOT GM-compliant and doesn't care which channel the data is coming in on (although you have to match channels to the track so it will actually receive and respond to the incoming MIDI stream) and won't play drums even if it is on channel 10, because it's not a GM-compliant synth.

Also, RealBand won't have a clue about what you have set as the instrument in Kontakt, so the track will NOT show an appropriate icon indicating that instrument (as it does for Multi-Timbral synths). That's the way it is, because it only sees it as Kontakt, not something like Action Strings played by Kontakt. If you set the track to channel 10, it will assume it is drums, because by the GM spec it is. You can change the displayed icon yourself if you want something differenet to represent the actual instrument being played.

Sorry, but I'm still confused by this request.
_________________________
John

LaptopBeast HP Win7Pro64, 8GB
AudioBeast ASUS Win10Pro64, 16GB
VideoBeast HP Win10Pro64, 8GB

BB-RB2020/UMC404HD/Casio Kbds/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Samplitude/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Noteworthy/NI Komplete/Halion/Garritan/IK
http://www.sus4chord.com

Top
#477654 - 06/13/18 05:51 PM [RealBand Wishlist] Re: get rid of the channel 10 drum track convention [Re: robbey10]
Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5474
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Jim Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 5474
Loc: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Originally Posted By: robbey10
Have you people tried others, I use Sonor for my final rendering, and you don't have every 10th channel blocked for drums nor does Abelthon or any of the new sequencer? With all the new VST's you put things where you want them and on the channel that you want them. So, if other sequencers can override that, I don't see why I should waste every 10th channel for the same drum track.


robbey10,

RealBand differs from Sonar and Ableton and any other DAW you can name. RealBand reserves the first eight tracks for Band-in-a-Box midi tracks by default. Other DAWs can not load native Band-in-a-Box (SGU & MGU suffix) files while RealBand can.

To remain compatible with Band-in-a-Box, RealBand needs to reserve midi channel 10 for drums.
_________________________
Jim Fogle
2019 UltraPlusPak BiaB(637) RealBand(Build 5)
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Audacity - Zoom MRS-8 recorder
i3 laptop, 64bit Win 7, 8 GB ram, 480GB SSD
Music at: http://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Top


PG Music News
New Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac Add-ons are Here!

Just released for Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Mac: Xtra Styles PAK 8 and Loops-with-Style PAK 1!

We've added 164 fantastic new RealStyles in Xtra Styles PAK 8! These are imaginative new combinations of our existing RealTracks library that fall into four categories: Rock/Pop 8, Jazz 8, Country 8, and Celtic 1. To celebrate the release of Xtra Styles PAK 8, ALL of our Xtra Styles PAKs 1-8 are on sale for just $29 each! Learn more & listen to demos here.

Also brand-new is our Loops-with-Style PAK 1 for Band-in-a-Box®, which gives you the chance to expand your loops collection with 100 new loops! We've taken the RealDrums and RealTracks source audio and remixed, remastered, and combined it to create these original loops. All of your favorite genres are covered like jazz, funk, rock, pop, electronic, hip-hop, and more! To show them in action, we've created 50 new RealStyles that each include two of the loops. Plus, if you use the loops in Band-in-a-Box, we've included intelligent versions of the loops that automatically switch at A and B part markers. Each loop has a matching sister loop that works perfectly for another substyle! Get started with Loops-with-Style PAK 1 for the introductory price of just $19 until December 31st (reg: $29). Learn more & watch a great video demonstration here.

Note: Xtra Styles PAK 8 and Loops-with-Style PAK 1 require the Band-in-a-Box® 2019 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Video - Band-in-a-Box® 2020 - Everything you need to know in under 6 minutes!* (plus the 49-PAK!)

It's HERE! Take a quick tour of the just-released Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows when you check out our latest video:
Band-in-a-Box® 2020 - Everything you need to know in under 6 minutes!* (plus the 49-PAK!)


Read more about this new version here, and check out our amazing upgrade pricing (up to 50% off during our special!) here!

Great New Content in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows®!

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows is here! Limited Time Special Offers Until December 31, 2019 - SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2020 for Windows Upgrade packages... and that's not all! When you buy version 2020 for Windows before December 31, 2019, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE!

Band-in-a-Box® 2020, Band-in-a-Box® VST DAW Plugin 2020 and RealBand 2020 - Over 50 new features!
- We have information about the program here.
- Specific information about the features is here.
- Ordering and info about the pacakages and pricing is available here.

Plus, there is a HUGE amount of new content...
- 202 new RealTracks, description and audio demos: click here.
- Xtra Styles Set 8 for Band-in-a-Box®, (description and video demos): Learn more...
- Loops-with-Style Set 1 for Band-in-a-Box®: product description and video demo.
- Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Learn more...
- Bonus 49 Pak (with 40 RealTracks)! Learn more...
- 2 new MIDI SuperTrack Sets - Learn more...
- 280 Drums RealCharts (previously had only 22, now have transcriptions for half of all of the 600 audio RealDrums)
- 5 Instrumental Studies Sets - Learn more...
- Two new all MIDI styles sets "Look-Ma! More MIDI" Sets 3 and 4 (30 MIDI styles) audio demos: Learn more...

Plus,the Online (or PDF) manual for the full program, or just the new features, are available here.

RealBand 2020 is Here!

RealBand 2020 is here, and is included free with Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows!

There are over 20 additions to RealBand, including intelligent Audio-Harmonies (1-4 voice), Scrub Mode, mixer enhancements, open MusicXML .musicxml and .xml, easier transpose, RealTracks, RealDrums sound improvements, and more!

RealBand 2020 New Features include:

Darker Grid Lines
Grid lines in Tracks and Audio Edit windows are drawn in a darker color instead of white.

Auto-hide Grid Lines
RealBand will auto-hide grid lines when they are within a certain number of pixels of each other.

Audio Scrub Mode
The new audio scrub button in the Audio Edit window lets you click and drag to hear a section of audio.

Shift key for moving multiple volume sliders and pan knobs
If moving a volume slider while pressing the Shift key, then any other selected tracks' sliders will also move. This applies to Tracks and Mixer windows.

...and more!

For the complete list of new features included in RealBand 2020, click here, and choose the "RealBand 2020" Tab.

Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows - Upgrade Today to Save Up to 50%!

Just released: Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows with over 50 new features, 202 New RealTracks, new RealStyles, 15 new MIDI SuperTracks, 170 new Instrumental Studies, 30 new MIDI Styles, 280 RealDrums Transcriptions, the 2020 Free Bonus PAK, 2020 49-PAK, and new Xtra Styles PAK 8!

We're having a SALE on Band-in-a-Box® 2020 Upgrade purchases until December 31, 2019 - save up to 50% when you purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows Upgrade!

We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some amazing Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2020 packages, but for more even more Add-ons (including 40 Unreleased RealTracks) upgrade it to the 2020 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.

Check out our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.

Learn more about all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2020 for Windows at: www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.new.htm

If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!

Happy Thanksgiving!

Today our friends in the USA are celebrating Thanksgiving!

Our hours are not affected - we are here until 6pm PST!
Technical Support is available until 4pm.

We hope everyone has an amazing Thanksgiving!

Stay In-the-Know With the Band-in-a-Box® Newsletter!

Hoping to be notified when Band-in-a-Box® 2020 is released? There are a few ways to stay informed!

PG Music Newsletter: Click here to subscribe
(If you've registered with us, or purchased from us, you're already on the list!)

Facebook: Click here to "Like" our page!

Twitter: Click here to Follow Us!

We also announce a new version release on our Forum... stay tuned!

Forum Stats
30529 Members
65 Forums
61249 Topics
517132 Posts

Max Online: 2434 @ 11/14/17 12:37 AM
Newest Members
desmonco, PxJ, Karda, ebowmagoo, JubinMenez

30529 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
VideoTrack 313
Matt Finley 237
Pipeline 173
Noel96 161
MarioD 148
PeterGannon 140
Torrey Bliss 135
Jim 124
Janice & Bud 121
rayc 119
Today's Birthdays
bluestu, J. Rich, Mel Laraway