I have the Waves LA-2A which is supposed to be a legend for vox. I always get noise with it in the quiet parts of my vocal track. I don't crank it, I use a preset and tweak a little. Noise issue aside, I don't hear the magic, either. I also have Waves Gold which includes the Neve 1073 and experience the same thing with it. I've auditioned a Fairchild 670, same thing. Renaissance vox is okay noise wise, but a very processed sound. I do blues and other roots music, so I don't want a processed sound, but that's what I always get if anything. I'm never happy with the reverb, either (Waves Renaissance), I use it sparingly, you can't tell it's there unless you A-B. Ambience free reverb has worked a little better, but it's still ho-hum.
Maybe my problem lies elsewhere. Maybe my recording isn't good and I don't realize it. My singing isn't that good, but sometimes I get lucky and it is (I think) passable. Any help appreciated.
Windows 10, Intel Core I5 10400, 16 gig ram, Scarlett 6i6, Komplete keyboard, Sony Acid Music Studio 11, BIAB 2020 UltraPlus Pak
But seriously, that doesn't sound right. Plugins such as that should not create the kind of noise you are speaking of.
It sounds more like the original recording is noisy. If you add effects to a noisy recording it will sound horrible. I would start with a good solid audio interface, a good condenser mic, mic shielding of some sort, etc. to get a good clear, pristine recording. That is where you need to start.
Some of the best tools I have seen are free. I would google Variety of Sound and download their entire kit. Some cool stuff in there. (Right click on image to get a better view in a different window.)
I have attached a screenshot showing three of their freebies in the full kit that go well with vocals.
Or you can spend $1,000.
There is a lot to be said for free.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
Perhaps you can post a sample isolated vocal clip of 15 - 30 seconds as an example for other users to hear. If you use an example vocal taken from a song you have published online some of the forum users can compare the isolated vocal against how the vocal sounds in the finished song. Then those with good production skills can offer advice concerning recording technique, editing, use of effects or mixing that can help you get closer to achieving your goal.
I'm sure if you wish you could reach out by private message to users you feel comfortable with.
I'll add to the above that good vocal recordings start with the space you are recording in.
Then you have a mic choice. My mic 'locker' consists of the following:
ElectroVoice PL80 (over time, it is becoming my fave of all my mics. It's a dynamic mic with very little off-axis sensitivity)
ElectroVoice PL84 - I bought this for $25 on Craigslist, New Old Stock from a guy. Looks brand new. Nearly same size as the PL80, but it's a condenser, and you know what - quite noisy. Not in it's off-axis pickup, it just has lots of hiss compared to the PL80. I regret buying it as I will probably never record with it.
ElectroVoice (yes I'm partial to EV!) SRO-RE11 (this is probably from the late 60's/early 70's) My first church had a grip of these mics and they gave them away to us sound engineers when they replaced them all with Shure SM58s. This mic can give a vintage thin kind of sound without any EQ.
Samson something or other USB/XLR mic. Sounds pretty much like an SM 58. I use it now and then, but the PL80 knocks it out of the part most of the time.
PreSonus M7 Large Diaphragm Condenser - got it for $15, with a 15' XLR cable. I figured I was buying a 15' XLR cable for $15 and got a free backup mic. Never have used it.
CAD M177 Large Diaphragm Condenser - I've made most of my vocal recordings with this mic. Doesn't have great off-axis rejection, so I have to record in my make-shift vocal booth with this one. Has a high pass filter switch on it which is always engaged when I record pretty much anything with it - vocals no exception.
Once you have your mic of choice (I wouldn't necessarily advise seeking out any of the above - they aren't necessarily popular and easy to find microphones - just what I've come across over the years), then try to get a decent pre-amp, either built-in to your audio interface or an external mic preamp. A good mic pre-amp can make a crap mic sound decent, but a noisy pre-amp will make every mic through it sound like crap.
Here's some other tips that are hard to go wrong with besides having a pretty dead space to record in: 1. Use a pop filter. Always. Or a big old foam ball/cylinder designed for use with your mic.
2. Don't record anything with your mic positioned in front of your computer screen - you will comb-filter the living daylights out of your recordings. The computer screen is too close of a pure reflecting surface and will put a time delayed reflection back at your mic that is nearly as strong as the direct signal, which will result a flaky sounding recording that you cannot fix. There's no fix for comb filtered recordings.
3. Use a high pass filter on the mic if it has one, and even if it does, always, always, always add a high pass filter in your DAW at the very front of the processing signal chain, and vary the corner frequency upward from about 50 Hz until the recording starts to sound thin to your ear. Leave the high pass filter corner frequency there. In fact, you should do this on nearly every mic recording you make whether it's vocals or something else - with the rare exception being kick drum, floor tom and mic recordings of bass guitar amp cabinets. Seriously, this practice will take mixes to the next level of professional sounding mix over home-studio mix faster than any other, if you are minding the store on the above. At least it did for me.
4. Use reverb in your headphone monitor while you record vocals. Helps most people that tend to sing slightly flat to pull their pitch up a little. If that's not enough, use a synth or organ line playing the melody to help you track vocals on pitch) You can throw that melody line away in your mix, because you probably don't want it in the final mix - it's just an aid to help sing on pitch.
5. Resist the urge to use chorus or artificial harmonies on your vocals until you've checked off everything above.
Thanks, everyone, I don't get on here often, but whenever I do, I always get great help.
Jim, I will post some audio and have it up by Monday night. Thanks!
RSN, wow, what a great post! I didn't know about the computer screen thing, but I just got a much bigger monitor and that could be a problem. I sort of knew about cutting out bass, but I completely forgot about it. As to mics, all I have is a Studio Projects B-1 and an sm57 clone. My room is untreated. I have rigged up comforters in the past, but I didn't do that on this most recent attempt at recording.
I switched long ago from a mixer and m2496 sound card to a scarlett 6i6 on the advice of users here. I've used Acid as a DAW for 12 years and can't seem to learn a newer and better DAW. But one thing is that Acid will only run in 24 bit with the Scarlett. 16 bit gives me very bad hum when recording. It seems to be fine in 24 bit, but that has always made me wonder about Acid and the Scarlett together. When I post the audio sample, I will do some recording in Reaper as well. I don't know Reaper well, but I can make a simple recording for test purposes.
Again, thanks everyone!
Windows 10, Intel Core I5 10400, 16 gig ram, Scarlett 6i6, Komplete keyboard, Sony Acid Music Studio 11, BIAB 2020 UltraPlus Pak
I switched long ago from a mixer and m2496 sound card to a scarlett 6i6 on the advice of users here. I've used Acid as a DAW for 12 years and can't seem to learn a newer and better DAW. But one thing is that Acid will only run in 24 bit with the Scarlett. 16 bit gives me very bad hum when recording. It seems to be fine in 24 bit, but that has always made me wonder about Acid and the Scarlett together. When I post the audio sample, I will do some recording in Reaper as well. I don't know Reaper well, but I can make a simple recording for test purposes.
Again, thanks everyone!
The studio Projects B1 is a very nice mic. The preamps on the 6i6 should be up to the task. There should be no electrical hum difference recording 16 vs 24 bit. Hum must be something else. Cakewalk and Tracktion 6 are completely free DAW software that migh be easier for you than Reaper.
If you’ve been recording in front of the computer screen with the B1, that’s almost a guarantee for a crap sounding recording. No reflective surfaces within several feet of the mic. Period. Otherwise, particularly with most condenser mics like the B1, you will get comb filtering on the recording.
Wow Rockstar_not. What a great post. I had no idea about the computer screen. My dog house sized room has my tube valve amp a foot from my screen. Time to make some serious changes. I need to do my vocals in a studio and accept that it's not possible in my dog house sized life in Hong Kong. Not to mention the TV, dogs, family and fridge....
Last edited by lambada; 05/20/1805:11 PM.
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487 BIAB 2021 (Build 818) Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi) VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
Plug ins..... less is often more. Especially with vocals.
However, you make an interesting point about the "noise" in the vocal track. Some of the so called "vocal warmers" accomplish their job by ADDING noise and distortion to the track at very low levels. If you're hearing distortion or noise, shut everything off and add it back one thing at a time.... by itself to see what the source of the noise is. Once you find it, you'll know better how to proceed. But.... if the noise is being generated as a warmer to the vocals, you may want to leave it alone and simply edit the vocal track with either a volume envelope or edit to mute between the vocal phrasing like you might do to eliminate vocal breath and tongue clicks & lip smacks and such things.
BTW.... yeah, I bought a really nice condenser mic, and got some top dollar plug ins to use to make things sound better..... but all it did was clarify what was there to start, so I'm waiting anxiously for the release of the Ozone TALENT plug in to solve the issues I still have.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/21/1803:38 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Wow Rockstar_not. What a great post. I had no idea about the computer screen. My dog house sized room has my tube valve amp a foot from my screen. Time to make some serious changes. I need to do my vocals in a studio and accept that it's not possible in my dog house sized life in Hong Kong. Not to mention the TV, dogs, family and fridge....
If your mic is 1’ away from your computer screen that is a recipe for comb filtering and no processing can un-comb filter a signal. What size is your room? My recording space and mic space is about 11’ x 12’. I’m lucky to have ways to manage reflections in that room including a closet door I can open with lots of coats and blankets and comforters in the closet.
I will try to make some audio demos of recordings in front of the computer screen vs in front of my closet opened up.
Okay, here's the audio via youtube. The same vocal clip dry, with LA2A, then LA2A and IK EQ bass cut, then LA2A, IK EQ and reverb. If you just want to get to the noise, just listen to the endings of the last two runs of the clip. I used the 150 bass cut on the mic as well. Thanks all for help!
Okay, here's the audio via youtube. The same vocal clip dry, with LA2A, then LA2A and IK EQ bass cut, then LA2A, IK EQ and reverb. If you just want to get to the noise, just listen to the endings of the last two runs of the clip.
Listening on my computer speakers the noise was pretty low level. Like I said above, when you put instruments into the mix that will be buried well below the threshold of the listener being able to hear it.
HOWEVER, it is there and therefore is cumulative to the entire final mix levels.... so, to get a "cleaner" vocal mix, use the volume riding envelope or in a DAW selectively AUDIO/EDIT/MUTE the empty space and it's gone. It takes about 5 minutes or less to edit a track in this manner.
In most cases, I use this on the majority of my vocal tracks and guitar tracks to get rid of the noise and the amp hiss or hum from the gain level I use on the distorted guitar parts. It's simply a part of cleaning up the tracks.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
I listened with some pretty nice in ear monitors and I honestly heard no difference in any of the segments. Are you sure you exported with effects applied?
I do hear some room reflections in the recording. I would work on eliminating that before messing about with plugins
Thanks again, Herb and Scott. I should've mentioned that I put a comforter over my head to do the recording. It went almost to the floor, and I had about the same space inside that one of those portable booths gives you (VOMO or Isovox 2). It's interesting that you didn't hear a lot of difference in the takes, Randy. I often ask myself if plugins are doing very much at all.
Scott, I forgot to use a high pass filter. You talked about corners, do you mean the left and right sides of the frequency graph? I did lower bass with an EQ until it thinned, as you suggested. But I didn't do anything to the high frequencies.
My biggest gripe with all my recordings (besides the actual singing) is that they seem metallic, almost electronic. Of course, that Ozone TALENT plugin would solve everything! Or Ozone Jawbone, which would emulate how we hear ourselves singing.
Windows 10, Intel Core I5 10400, 16 gig ram, Scarlett 6i6, Komplete keyboard, Sony Acid Music Studio 11, BIAB 2020 UltraPlus Pak
Thanks again, Herb and Scott. I should've mentioned that I put a comforter over my head to do the recording. It went almost to the floor, ....... I often ask myself if plugins are doing very much at all.
My biggest gripe with all my recordings (besides the actual singing) is that they seem metallic, almost electronic.
I don't do that. I sing into an open mic on a stand in the room. Of course, to each his own. The blanket mutes the room.... I like the room.
If you don't like the sound of your own voice, you need to keep working on the process. There's a sweet spot that you have to find. Most folks can sing well enough. Listen to Tom Waite and Willie Nelson among others who really don't have a superb voice, but none the less, stuck with it and pushed through the barriers and became singers who set new levels on the bar to success and singing.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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