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I have a very small budget. I'd like to get better acoustic guitar recordings while being able to use the same mic for other things as they come up. I've been reading reviews and all of these below seem to be comparable in quality. Can any one here make any recommendations? Here are the one is been looking at.
Sennheiser e614 supercardiod $99 might be best for live/stage.
AKG P170 cardioid $99 might be most versatile because it's simply cardioid.
CAD GLX1200 $99
ElectroVoice PL37 cardioid $69
Or maybe get a matched pair.
Samson CO2 Stereo Pair $108 Amazon
CAD CM217 pair $99. Has very good reviews.
Runner ups;
Behringer C2 pair $59
Behringer C4
Behringer B5
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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What I have found is that most condenser mics will do a really good job for the average home recording studio.
I've heard $100 mics side by side (A/B) with $2000 mics and to be completely honest, I heard very little difference in them. Certainly not enough to justify paying $1900 more for home studio use.
In fact, many years ago on the old Cakewalk forum, a friend there picked up a $59 condenser mic and used it for vocals and acoustic guitar and the results were very impressive. Hard to believe it was under $100 and sounding that good.
If you ask 10 people, you will get 20 recommendations so set your budget and search the music store sites. Find one you like for whatever reason, and look for the best deal.
My only recommendation is that you stay away from anything that is USB connected. The mic should be a condenser that uses phantom power and doesn't have a USB connection. Straight up old skool mic.
The PL 37 or the Behringer mics are all in that price to value range.
Another suggestion.... buy from a store that offers at least a 30 day or more full refund with no questions asked. Try it and if you don't like it, pack it up and send it back.
Also: understand if you don't already know.... that miking an acoustic guitar is part science, part art, and sometimes part luck to get the right balance of tone. So give yourself some time to play around and get it right.
Let us know what you buy, and post a song with it in there.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 10/02/18 02:41 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Another all purpose mic is a Shure SM57: Mic alone, $99 USD: https://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/shure-sm57-dynamic-instrument-microphone?pdpSearchTerm=shure%20sm57Mic with boom mic stand, $109 USD: https://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/shure-sm57-stand-cable-package?rNtt=shure%20sm57&index=2I have dynamic mics like the SM57 for recording guitar amps and I use this inexpensive B-800 condenser mic for record vocals and acoustic instruments: https://www.ebay.com/itm/BM800-Condenser-Microphone-Mic-Audio-Studio-Sound-Recording-Dynamic-Shock-Mount/302636193127?hash=item467685d567:m:mSuDpcfWjlGxDaoFgCPdTcw Don't be afraid of the price, it's around $20 USD. It sounds fantastic for both vocals and instruments. I replaced the stupid mic cord that came with it with a real XLR mic cord like this one for $15: https://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/daddario-planet-waves-classic-series-xlr-microphone-cable-lo-zI hope this helps.
Me, it's not about how many times you fail, it's about how many times you get back up.
Cop, that's not how field sobriety tests work.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I reluctantly ended up ordering the Behringer C-2 Pair. They should arrive in 3 - 5 days plus another few days for me to really try them out. I tried ordering 2 iSK Pearls with Shock Mounts and a few other accessories to make the 100 dollar free shipping but the transaction failed 3 times. My bank handled it with 3 charges and 3 equal returns. I emailed iSK and used the contact gadget on their website but got no reply after 5 days. Anyhow, I wanted a low frequency roll-off switch, cardioid, not super cardioid and both the iSK Pearls and the Behringer C-2s have that. Plus using them in stereo might be useful at times.
Most of the bad reviews I read on the Behringer C-2s seem to be from misuse, bad shipping, and people who probably don't have phantom power since they indicate that the mics don't work at all. There are a few that seem like legitimate dislikes and a few failures too.
I figured if I don't like them for any reason I can return them and will probably get a single AKG P170.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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"Plus using them in stereo might be useful at times."I'm sure you already know this, but you also have the option of using two mics and EQ'ing them differently, but you must be aware of phase cancellation. https://www.uaudio.com/blog/stereo-miking-acoustic-guitar/Regards, Bob
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After experimenting recording my acoustic guitar with the Behringer C-2s in many configurations I ended up sending them back for a refund. I don't think they are terrible but after comparing them to my Shure SM86, Shure Beta 58, Sennheiser e838, AKG D880 Emotion, Sony ECM MS-907, Behringer B-2 Pro and a few others in my collection they just don't compare in sound quality. They were more sensitive than the dedicated vocal mics and certainly could pick up the sound well. But, have a slightly harsh tone, just slight, and sounded somewhat lifeless, no warmth. But, not really all that bad. It's just that I get a much better sound from any of the others listed above. In fact, for recording acoustic guitar in my room the e838 and Sony ECM MS-907 were probably the best but for separate reasons.
Last week I bought an AKG P170 and immediately could hear a good quality, warm, full range sound. It's easy to move around to find a good spot and easy to post EQ to fit a mix or EQ for solo/singer/songwriter. It doesn't have a low cut switch but that's okay.
To my surprise the Sony ECM MS-907 (stereo/mid-side) mic sounds very good. I've had that mic for some 20 years and had never recorded acoustic guitar with it. I almost did and probably could have stuck with using that alone for my personal recordings. But, it's not easy to focus in on a mono recording when that's all I want. It also has a fairly low SPL handling, which doesn't bother me, and a permanent sharp low cut/high pass at around 100 htz. That said, it is a very clear, detailed and warm sounding. I put it close up to the 20th fret/edge of sound hole and turned it sideways so the left side picked up the high strings and the right side pick up the low strings. Panned them left and right and had a really cool stereo sound. So, I'll likely be putting that one into service more often. Plus, for doing scratch tracks like picking up a singer with an acoustic guitar just to grab a basic song it works quite well.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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After experimenting recording my acoustic guitar with the Behringer C-2s in many configurations I ended up sending them back for a refund. I don't think they are terrible but after comparing them to my Shure SM86, Shure Beta 58, Sennheiser e838, AKG D880 Emotion, Sony ECM MS-907, Behringer B-2 Pro and a few others in my collection they just don't compare in sound quality. They were more sensitive than the dedicated vocal mics and certainly could pick up the sound well. But, have a slightly harsh tone, just slight, and sounded somewhat lifeless, no warmth. But, not really all that bad. It's just that I get a much better sound from any of the others listed above. In fact, for recording acoustic guitar in my room the e838 and Sony ECM MS-907 were probably the best but for separate reasons.
Last week I bought an AKG P170 and immediately could hear a good quality, warm, full range sound. It's easy to move around to find a good spot and easy to post EQ to fit a mix or EQ for solo/singer/songwriter. It doesn't have a low cut switch but that's okay.
To my surprise the Sony ECM MS-907 (stereo/mid-side) mic sounds very good. I've had that mic for some 20 years and had never recorded acoustic guitar with it. I almost did and probably could have stuck with using that alone for my personal recordings. But, it's not easy to focus in on a mono recording when that's all I want. It also has a fairly low SPL handling, which doesn't bother me, and a permanent sharp low cut/high pass at around 100 htz. That said, it is a very clear, detailed and warm sounding. I put it close up to the 20th fret/edge of sound hole and turned it sideways so the left side picked up the high strings and the right side pick up the low strings. Panned them left and right and had a really cool stereo sound. So, I'll likely be putting that one into service more often. Plus, for doing scratch tracks like picking up a singer with an acoustic guitar just to grab a basic song it works quite well. Working with acoustic guitars is an art form to start.... and using 2 mics is an even harder form of art. You end up with cancellation of frequencies and yep.... additions too depending on the mic placement and the frequency of the note being played at a given point in time. I experimented using 2 mics on my acoustic and determined that for me, without spending an inordinate amount of time experimenting, using a single mic placed where it picks up the neck and strings as well as the body resonance well, is the best bet. And... I'm still trying to get a good sounding acoustic track that meets my desire for quality. So far, I'm ok with the results.... just not overly excited yet. Just curious if you tried using just one mic of that B-C2 pair. And if you did, how did that sound? Or.... was the overall quality of the c2 just not up to snuff? The problem with using 2 mics is demonstrated in the chart below. Guitar open tuning is 82 to 330 hz. Time periods and wavelength are all in the distance we normally place the mics from the guitar and that's compounded by the fact that sound is not coming from one specific point on the instrument.... such as you have with a horn. Guitars are tough, pianos are even more entertaining. The higher the frequency the more tricky it is to avoid comb filtering and get a good sound on the track. http://www.soundoctor.com/freq.htmms note: this chart didn't copy well so I posted the link instead.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 11/02/18 03:51 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Obligatory SM58 plug here!
Seriously though, in my experience, I generally care more about the brand then the price. A low price mic may always be low price, but a good brand is almost always a safe choice.
I can't say I have done as much recording as others, but for all the live shows and events I've worked over the years I keep coming back to Shure.
They are companies that have their strengths elsewhere, but I consistently had issues using Behringer, Samson, and Line 6 Mics.
Interesting to hear about the Sony though. I would never have had thought to even try, they really make good everything don't they.
C-sharp when you cross the street… or you’re going to B-flat.
Mikke - PG Music
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SM58 is a great workhorse to have. Does a LOT. I think we have 4 or 5 of these and beat on them year after year.
SM57 is much the same, yet different. I like the 57 better for certain things, acoustic guitar being one of them.
Double micing an acoustic is standard practice here, and phase issues can often be fixed easily by sliding one track just a hair (and I mean a hair .. not 120 resolution but using 3840 or so).
Sometimes it's just a matter of looking at the wave forms while zoomed in and aligning them for the applicable tracks. Mic distance, etc, can be a factor in phase issues but can also be fixed after the fact by sliding the track. Or by using a simple phase correction plugin.
Also just because you record 2 mics does not mean you have to use them both. <grin>
Another example is using 2 mics on 12 string acoustic can add a lot of effect. Nice chorusey sound that phase can actually accentuate at times.
Guess my point is, why not double mic it, you still have all options available later. Some of the best acoustic tracks I've ever recorded used both mics .. and some of them used just 1 of the 2 we recorded.
Nothing to lose unless you mix both mics during the recording and actually write both mics to disk combined (instead of separately), which means you are doing it wrong.
Additional note; condenser mics can benefit greatly from a good preamp.
Actually all mics do, but to me, especially true for condenser mics.
Many sound much better when used with a dedicated preamp (even a VTB1) compared to a regular mixer preamp.
If you invest in a condenser, I suggest investing in a nice preamp as well to get the most benefit.
Last edited by rharv; 11/02/18 01:56 PM.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Oktava MK-012 and a capsule. Great things about these mics, they have interchangeable capsules for all kinds of situations. They are not Neumanns, but at the price point they beat most competitors.
P.S. Nothing is wrong with sm58/57, but I like Oktava more
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I noticed everyone is writing about close mic technique.
What do you folks do about the sound we hear a few feet away? For example, you can't really hear what an electric guitar sounds like until you are a few feet from the amp. Micing a sax at the bell doesn't really give you all the tone we are used to hearing. Do any of you try to get that sound from a listener's perspective? If so, how do you do it?
2b
i5-3210 laptop. Win 10 Home. 2.5ghz, 64 bit. 6gb RAM. Focusrite Scarlet 2i2.
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"Just curious if you tried using just one mic of that B-C2 pair. And if you did, how did that sound? Or.... was the overall quality of the c2 just not up to snuff?"
*
Yes, in various locations. And, as I said earlier;
“I don't think they are terrible, . . . It's just that I get a much better sound from any of the others listed above.”
*
I also did several/many dual mic configurations with them. Mostly to 2 separate tracks for panning/mixing options. I just did't like the sound of them on acoustic guitar compared to some of the dedicated vocal mics in my collection.
For a 2 mic recording I can now use the AKG P170, which sounds great, and the Behringer B-2 Pro (large diaphragm), or any others I have and feel like I'll get a much better sound in the end. A few days ago I recorded several passes of the 12th fret, 15th fret and the lower shoulder area with the P170 and the piezo/preamp to 2 separate tracks and get a very nice sound that way. The guitar is a Yamaha FSX830C with the ART preamp system. It actually sounds really good live where I take advantage of tapping/thumping on the soundboard a bit for getting the piezo to put out some of that tappingthumping to the PA system at times. But, recording using the onboard preamp I roll off all the lows, mids at a specified Q/sweep, and leave the highs flat. So, I'm only/mostly recording the thin sparkle of the piezo and blending that in with the mic recording.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Obligatory SM58 plug here!
Interesting to hear about the Sony though. I would never have had thought to even try, they really make good everything don't they. Yes, I am still debating whether to just stick with the Sony Mid/Side mic for stereo recordings. It sounds really, really good and since its all in one mic it's easy to move around to find a nice spot with out perceived phase cancellations. I have little 1/8" stereo to Left/Right 1/4" adapter to get it onto 2 tracks at once. Keep in mind that with the Mid/Side arrangement the left side includes the center and the right side also includes the center. I can't remove the center. But I can pan the left and center to the left and the right and center to the right. Non-the-less, it sounds very nice like this. * Also, I'm not against SM58s and 57s. I have used and owned them in the past. I don't currently own either one and don't feel the need to since I feel they are the standard of mediocre. I own 2 Beta 58S and a SM86 that, to me, for what I do, I think are at least a grade or 2 above the SM58/57. Even then, for my own voice live I prefer the Sennheiser e838 and when I need supercardoid I grab the AKG 880 Emotion. My wife uses the SM86 and sounds great on it. A Beta 58 is usually in my gig bag as a spare.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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You already have way more mics than I expected. To call the SM 58 and 57 the standard of mediocre means that you are putting way too much hope in a mic making some kind of magic, in my opinion. Both of those mics are outstanding and very often do way better than more expensive condensers in a home studio situation, where control of reflections is not really well executed for the most part. They are much more forgiving than most cardioid condenser mics because of their better off-axis rejection. The list of excellent acoustic records made with these mics - and entire albums, is well known. That probably doesn't need to be rehashed. What does your anti-reflection absorption situation look like in the room? I would concentrate there before buying another mic. Especially on a limited budget. As for the mid-side mic, you should be able to use a matrix in your DAW to resolve this to pure stereo. https://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/Those are just my opinions, but I would say you have plenty of mics to work with and tweak - but it does depend somewhat on your room - all the more-so with a less-cardioid patterned condenser.
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I noticed everyone is writing about close mic technique.
What do you folks do about the sound we hear a few feet away? For example, you can't really hear what an electric guitar sounds like until you are a few feet from the amp. Micing a sax at the bell doesn't really give you all the tone we are used to hearing. Do any of you try to get that sound from a listener's perspective? If so, how do you do it?
2b I do this with some very expensive in-ear monitors, with earmuffs over top. I hear pretty much what the mic is picking up. I got the in-ear monitors from my former employer, Westone, which is not something that is in most home-recordist's budgets. But hey, it's the way I do it when I'm not in a hurry. Main thing in home studios is controlling reflections; both cutting them down and also having a piece of panelling you can throw on the floor to CREATE reflections. -Scott
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You already have way more mics than I expected. To call the SM 58 and 57 the standard of mediocre means that you are putting way too much hope in a mic making some kind of magic, in my opinion. Both of those mics are outstanding and very often do way better than more expensive condensers in a home studio situation, where control of reflections is not really well executed for the most part. They are much more forgiving than most cardioid condenser mics because of their better off-axis rejection. The list of excellent acoustic records made with these mics - and entire albums, is well known. That probably doesn't need to be rehashed. What does your anti-reflection absorption situation look like in the room? I would concentrate there before buying another mic. Especially on a limited budget. As for the mid-side mic, you should be able to use a matrix in your DAW to resolve this to pure stereo. https://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/Those are just my opinions, but I would say you have plenty of mics to work with and tweak - but it does depend somewhat on your room - all the more-so with a less-cardioid patterned condenser. Okay, maybe mediocre isn't the best description. Maybe medium priced or medium grade would have been better. What I mean is they are likely near the top of the $100 mic catagory. But, for the price range of an SM57/58 there is a lot to chose from. If fact, I prefer a Sennheiser E835 for anything a SM57 or 58 could get used for. But, that's just me. Going just above that price range seems to get significantly better quality. Anyhow, after using SM57/58s off and on for the last 40 years or so I seem to always like other microphones better for what I do. And, considering what I already have, I would buy one at this point since I've got it covered with other mics. My room itself isn't too, too bad. I have tall book shelves loaded with books and gadgets to the left and right, minimal absorption on the wall behind my station, a 8 x 10 thick carpet covering part of the wall some 6 - 8 feet behind my back, thin carpet on the floor and a thick quilt canopy to stand under for vocal recording. I often use several shower floor mats from the 99 Cents Only store for movable absorption but they mostly just reduce reflections off walls, the ceiling and where the walls and ceiling meet. I think my biggest dislike is the ceiling. I have some ideas for that but haven't got around to it yet. I currently don't see a need to separate out the mid/side features of that little Sony mic. I would use it for what it does and it seems to do it quite well. But, I know there are some slick techniques for that when needed. I've never experimented with them myself though.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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Forums66
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