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#495227 - 10/11/18 12:45 PM [Beginners Forum] Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track?
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 361
Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 361
Hi fellows.
I watched Joanne Wilson-Cooper tutorials. They are good, but are mostly focused on using Realband. She has shown couple of tunes she made with BIAB which cover basics.

I was wondering if anyone can suggest a more complex, complete backing track tutorial, from Intro to End. Not random bits of the program examples, but a video of single song (backing track) made in BIAB from start to finish, without use of RB?

P.S. Hopefully 2017-2018 versions.

I thank you in advance,
Mike.

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#495242 - 10/11/18 01:37 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Hi fellows.
I watched Joanne Wilson-Cooper tutorials. They are good, but are mostly focused on using Realband. She has shown couple of tunes she made with BIAB which cover basics.

I was wondering if anyone can suggest a more complex, complete backing track tutorial, from Intro to End. Not random bits of the program examples, but a video of single song (backing track) made in BIAB from start to finish, without use of RB?

P.S. Hopefully 2017-2018 versions.

I thank you in advance,
Mike.



Any song in particular you have in mind?
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#495250 - 10/11/18 02:03 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 361
Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 361
DeaconBlues09,

Sounds tempting already. I am not picky smile Pop, Rock, Latin, Country, Folk, Blues, Fusion...
What I want to see how people create interesting intros, breaks..., utilize stops, rests, holds, endings in one project / one song scenario. From A-Z.

Not just a chip from a cookie, but the cookie itself smile Like watching Bob Ross create a painting sort of a deal.

Thanks.

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#495259 - 10/11/18 02:12 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Online   content
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Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
DeaconBlues09,

Sounds tempting already. I am not picky smile Pop, Rock, Latin, Country, Folk, Blues, Fusion...
What I want to see how people create interesting intros, breaks..., utilize stops, rests, holds, endings in one project / one song scenario. From A-Z.

Not just a chip from a cookie, but the cookie itself smile Like watching Bob Ross create a painting sort of a deal.

Thanks.


Oh, I thought you meant a backing track for a cover song. For what you describe, what you can find on PG Music's YT channel. There are tutorials going back for years that still hold up.

FWIW, I used to travel quite a bit on public transportation, and when I first purchased BiaB in 2016, I loaded up every single video from the past five years onto my tablet and learnt a ton from watching almost all of them at least twice!
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#495269 - 10/11/18 02:24 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 361
Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 361
I know there are tons of videos. I watched quite a few....but find it a bit surgical, I want to see example of how whole project is created.
I am looking for a video similar to which Joanne made for her song, but with one using more advanced/compex techniques as described above.

A person making a backing track (on BIAB, not RB) for his/her song and sharing the process.

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#495342 - 10/12/18 12:44 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 08/09/17
Posts: 492
Loc: Florida
Samuel Davis Offline
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Are you talking about a song done completely in BIAB? I think most of us use multiple programs in conjunction with BIAB. Some prefer Real Band since it comes with the program. Myself I export everything to Cubase.
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#495348 - 10/12/18 01:29 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
DeaconBlues09 Online   content
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Registered: 03/21/17
Posts: 394
Loc: Merkaz, Israel
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
I know there are tons of videos. I watched quite a few....but find it a bit surgical, I want to see example of how whole project is created.
I am looking for a video similar to which Joanne made for her song, but with one using more advanced/compex techniques as described above.

A person making a backing track (on BIAB, not RB) for his/her song and sharing the process.


Hey,

At the risk of coming across like an a-hole, at some point you just gotta dive in and start experimenting. All the information is literally out there. We live in astonishingly incredible times, where dozens tutorials are posted free to view on the internet, as well as the manuals--that are now readily available online.

You simply need to absorb each bit of information and get experiment as you go along. In fact, when I acquired this program, my intention was not to record songs, but to have a jam partner, and use the notated realtracks to learn licks from. However, once I started messing around with the program more and more, and diving deeper into its capabilities and functions, I became so fascinated with the program that I started watching videos and reading and re-reading the manual until I got to know the program rather well. Now with Reaper, I started using it to collab online with artists that wanted someone to play live bass or guitar on their track so I got into that as well, because using Reaper tracks made it easy to share and collab back and forth, and the recording process is very simple and accessible.

All that said, after I acquired all this knowledge, I still wasn't really interested in recording songs! In fact, I have recorded exactly two songs the entire time I've had the program, and both were for the Xtra Styles Pak 5 contest, because I wanted to win for the $150 in PG Music cash (although I'd be lying if I didn't admit that once I got down to it, I enjoyed the whole process immensely!).

To conclude, you gotta just do it. Start with some sort of vision, and whenever you get stuck, hit up the forums here and you'll get all the help you need at each step.

Oh, and one more thing, I've personally observed that, for me at least, the number one procrastination technique is trying to learn more instead of doing. The reason that this technique is so seductive is that you can pat yourself on the back for acquiring more knowledge while avoiding the self-loathing that comes along with avoiding doing what you know you should be doing, e.g. making music.
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#495368 - 10/12/18 05:14 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 361
Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 361
Samuel, Deaconblues...

Of course, I understand that usually track/tracks go elsewhere after BIAB.

I can get around BIAB without major problems. I just want to see a workflow on whole complex backing track from start to end in BIAB. By "END", I mean before it goes other places like DAW.

Deaconblues, of course I experiment.., this is all what it is about for me. I do not believe that watching a workflow of someone else will diminish my desire to be creative smile

As per my initial request, if someone knows a good video, similar to Joanne Wilson-Cooper, but of more compex arrangement done in BIAB from start to end, kindly post.

Thank you.

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#495374 - 10/12/18 05:51 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 1917
Loc: Ontario, Canada
BlueAttitude Offline
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Registered: 11/30/07
Posts: 1917
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Have you seen the one Floyd Jane did? If not maybe it will be what you are looking for. It's mostly about songwriting but he also gets into the mechanics of building the backing track for the song he is composing.

It's a sticky post, second post from the top on the user showcase forum: "Announcing... The Birth of a Song – Extended Version! (with Floyd Jane)"

Maybe this link will work: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=454428#Post454428
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#495515 - 10/12/18 03:44 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 361
Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 361
Dave,
Thank you for the post! Not quite what I was looking for, but enjoyed it and actually picked up couple of interesting points, especially how Floyd Jane came back to BIAB to make several takes of Solo guitar/s to audition and use in DAW after main tracks where laid

It always interesting to see processes of musicians and not robot speaking reps. Robots speak the truth, but so is the manual.

Strange that BIAB was in town for so long and there are only a sprinkle of videos that actually show whole process of a single project in depth.

If anybody knows of any other complete BIAB project videos, kindly share.

Thank you,
Mike.

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#495529 - 10/12/18 04:59 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 2531
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 2531
Loc: Sacramento, California
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
I just want to see a workflow on whole complex backing track from start to end in BIAB. By "END", I mean before it goes other places like DAW.

If it's going to a DAW, why do the work in BIAB?

I do most of my work in the DAW. I generate the tracks in BiaB, typically creating multiple takes for each instrument. I just keep regenerating that track, and save each new take with a different name (BASS_1, BASS_2, etc.).

If I had a solo that I wanted a bunch of takes for, I might create a separate BiaB file with only the chord progression the solo plays over - say, 8 bars long - and set it to repeat a bazillion times. I'll export that out as a .wav file, and slice it up in my DAW.

Once I've got my .wav files generated, I fire up the DAW, and start slicing and dicing, choosing the best takes. I can always fire up BiaB and render some more tracks if needed. Easy peasy.
_________________________
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My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#495541 - 10/12/18 05:46 PM [Beginners Forum] Re: Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 361
Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 361
David +1 Thank you:) I am getting there.

But nevertheless, I like to get my "bones" be as close as possible to what I want before moving to DAW. Especially things like:
Distinctive intros, style changes at bars, bridges, use of holds, stops for breaks, interesting endings....etc and most importantly to see it done in one project/one song.

Or even as you mentioned, regenerating single instruments and saving them as A,B,C... Question arises right away. How do "re-generations" affect changes at bars/ mutes, style changes. Interesting stuff.

Just curious how people do things, to gather some ideas of workflows etc.

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#495598 - 10/13/18 01:09 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 2531
Loc: Sacramento, California
dcuny Offline
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Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 2531
Loc: Sacramento, California
Originally Posted By: Rustyspoon#
Question arises right away. How do "re-generations" affect changes at bars/ mutes, style changes.

It's the other way around. Each regeneration still follows the changes, holds, shots, parts, and so on that are indicated on the track. BiaB simply has the option of generating a slightly different track using material from the selected RealTrack.

To regenerate a track, go to the instrument, Track Actions, (re)Generate this RealTrack, and then Track Actions, Save track as .WAV file. Each regeneration follows the same changes as indicated by the part markers (A/B) so the verses/choruses have different feels.

However, I generally won't change styles in the BiaB chordsheet. Instead, I'll generate different RealTracks for an instrument. For example, I might generate bass tracks in the styles Bass, Acoustic, Bowed HeldSimple and Bass, Acoustic, Bowed Held. Then in the DAW, I can slice and dice those tracks into a single bass track.

Similarly, I may generate the piano tracks Piano, Electric, Rhythm JazzRock Ev16 100 and Piano, Electric, Rhythm JazzRockHeld Ev16 100. In the DAW, I can slice and dice so the piano switches between held and rhythmic chord tracks. I'll also generate a couple different pianos (acoustic and electric, simple holds and rhythmic) so I have options when I'm arranging the song.

To create a solo, I may generate six or more tracks by the solo instrument. Then I'll build the solo by taking my favorite bits from each solo. The various phrases might not even be in the same order. I may like the first few notes of one phrase, and then glue them onto a different ending.

I also keep an ear out for distinctive patterns. If there's something that I particularly like in one of the tracks, and can copy and paste it throughout the track so it becomes a repeating motif.

These are all things that (for me) make more sense to do in my DAW, rather than BiaB. You can do the same thing in RB, but I happen to be more comfortable with my DAW.
_________________________
-- David Cuny
My virtual singer development blog

Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?

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#495612 - 10/13/18 03:58 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4706
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Online   content
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Registered: 04/07/13
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Loc: South Carolina
Here is an oldie but goodie that may interest you. This link does not have all six videos but you may find the others by searching. These videos also use to be located in tutorials here on the PGMusic forum. I haven't searched to see if they are still up. Worthwhile to watch though.


Band in a Box and Realband by Dfizzbom
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#495667 - 10/13/18 07:37 AM [Beginners Forum] Re: Is there a good tutorial on making a complex backing track? [Re: Rustyspoon#]
Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 361
Rustyspoon# Online   content
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Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 361
Charlie, thank you for the link! I liked how the guy prepped his drum fills /rolls ahead of time at the end of his project to slice them later.

David, the more I think about your post, the more I like it. Thank you for detailed info! It seems very reasonable scenario for what I am doing. I probably set my expectations high for BIAB as far as track assembly program. Probably I have to re-think approach, to use it mainly as engine and use more DAW muscle to get things situated.

This is very similar to how I used to do backing tracks from hardware arranger boxes years ago. I extracted part variations from box to DAW as audio and then fooled around with them. I stepped out of song writing for several years, now trying to get back the "lost years" smile

Again,
Thank you for your input!

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