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I brought up the VSTi issue during the first RB beta test two years ago and brought it up again this time. Hey, a brand new program to test I thought, this must be part of it by now, right? Nope. I sincerely appreciate Peter and his dedication to these programs and us users but still... He posted here in the open forum that he was aware of the problem and they were working on it. Two years. Must be something really difficult about this and I have no clue what it is. Trust me Scott, a lot of people want this.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Quote:
Which FX won't load?
My DDMF EQ's and NY Compressor, and a few of the Modern Plugins that I use for drums...there are a few more, but these are the main ones. 
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Hi JCS,
I tried a VST "IIEQ.dll" plugin that I downloaded from DDFM, and it worked great. Are you sure you are selecting "Add VST plugin"?
Hi Roy,
That's good to hear - glad you got it working.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Hello Bob,
What VST plugin are you having trouble with? I have never encountered a proper VST plugin that does not work in RealBand or PowerTracks.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Hello Andrew, the free IIEQ works fine here also, but the IIEQ Pro, LPEQ, ColourEQ, and NY Comp will not load. I will keep at it tho, and I have selected "Add VST Plugin" from the list.....quick question about that, how do I remove them? Do I edit a text file? And as a side note, the DDMF VST's will not show up in the Kristal Audio Engine either, including the free IIEQ. Anyway, Thanks for the quick response, and look for a post about the double hit problem later this afternoon...
Last edited by jcspro40; 12/23/09 11:38 AM.
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Inside the FX window is a button to 'exclude' a plugin. This removes them from the available list without removing them from the system.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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Thanks for that rharv!
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Quote:
Hello Bob,
What VST plugin are you having trouble with? I have never encountered a proper VST plugin that does not work in RealBand or PowerTracks.
Then you've never used one that can create it's own parts probably because they're all fairly expensive.
I'm referring to the very well known tempo lock problem with VSTi's that can create their own rhythms like Jamstix, BFD, some of the guitar ones, some effects like delays or phasers that can be locked to the tempo of your song so they pulse along with the beat. I have Jamstix, it loads fine as an instrument so I can use the great sounding kits to play prerecorded drum tracks but the biggest part of JS is the "brain" that will create and modify a completely new drum part on the fly based on a very cool drum pattern creation display. It works much like the Biab styles except it's drums only. You can pick a style and then tell it to change virtually any part of the kit according to certain parameters like changing the attack on the ride, add some ghost hits to the snare, a double back beat on the kick, etc all within any style you choose and they have pretty much any drum style you can think of based on famous drummers just like Biab's soloists. That requires some further VST work in RB.
Ralph at Rayzoon commented that PG's VST implementation must be incomplete if those functions don't work. The symptom is the drum track tempo starts to run away as soon as you hit play and whatever pattern that's supposed to play begins to randomize to the point it's just a mishmash in a few seconds.
I thought there was something wrong so I corresponded with Rayzoon's tech support who told me the problem was here so then I corresponded with PG's tech support. This was maybe three years ago. After a few days they emailed me to say this was more complex than they thought and would get back to me sometime later. It was about a month or so when they said nothing could be done at this time, sorry. I commented during this last beta that Peter said two years ago that he was aware of this problem and you guys were working on it. Not a peep since.
There's a lot of frustration about this because the Jamstix brain and sounds with some Real Tracks and/or some Biab midi tracks would be awesome, same with Steinberg's Virtual Guitarist. Now of course, the workaround is to use another DAW and D & D those tracks into it but that sure seems clunky considering virtually any DAW you've ever heard of except for PT/RB has no problem with this including several freebies like Savihost. You may recall that Mac passed on the last PT 12 beta test because of this issue. Real Band of course is an entirely different animal with a lot of very cool features in spite of this glaring problem.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Quote:
Quote:
Hello Bob,
What VST plugin are you having trouble with? I have never encountered a proper VST plugin that does not work in RealBand or PowerTracks.
Then you've never used one that can create it's own parts probably because they're all fairly expensive.
I'm referring to the very well known tempo lock problem with VSTi's that can create their own rhythms like Jamstix, BFD, some of the guitar ones, some effects like delays or phasers that can be locked to the tempo of your song so they pulse along with the beat. I have Jamstix, it loads fine as an instrument so I can use the great sounding kits to play prerecorded drum tracks but the biggest part of JS is the "brain" that will create and modify a completely new drum part on the fly based on a very cool drum pattern creation display. It works much like the Biab styles except it's drums only. You can pick a style and then tell it to change virtually any part of the kit according to certain parameters like changing the attack on the ride, add some ghost hits to the snare, a double back beat on the kick, etc all within any style you choose and they have pretty much any drum style you can think of based on famous drummers just like Biab's soloists. That requires some further VST work in RB.
Ralph at Rayzoon commented that PG's VST implementation must be incomplete if those functions don't work. The symptom is the drum track tempo starts to run away as soon as you hit play and whatever pattern that's supposed to play begins to randomize to the point it's just a mishmash in a few seconds.
I thought there was something wrong so I corresponded with Rayzoon's tech support who told me the problem was here so then I corresponded with PG's tech support. This was maybe three years ago. After a few days they emailed me to say this was more complex than they thought and would get back to me sometime later. It was about a month or so when they said nothing could be done at this time, sorry. I commented during this last beta that Peter said two years ago that he was aware of this problem and you guys were working on it. Not a peep since.
There's a lot of frustration about this because the Jamstix brain and sounds with some Real Tracks and/or some Biab midi tracks would be awesome, same with Steinberg's Virtual Guitarist. Now of course, the workaround is to use another DAW and D & D those tracks into it but that sure seems clunky considering virtually any DAW you've ever heard of except for PT/RB has no problem with this including several freebies like Savihost. You may recall that Mac passed on the last PT 12 beta test because of this issue. Real Band of course is an entirely different animal with a lot of very cool features in spite of this glaring problem.
Bob
What Bob says here - ditto.
However, let's start with something even much simpler. How about using a delay that locks to tempo of the song? My favorite delay for 'composition' purposes, as well as it's excellent analog tape delay emulation, is a freeware called 'bionic delay' Don't let the 'freeware' title fool you - I learned that lesson long ago. It doesn't even have time controls, delay functions are purely note values. You simply lock it to repeat how often on a note value basis with a radio button and voila - no calculations necessary. Nearly all my mod effects that I use work this way. The classic series from Kjaerhus, etc. Link to bionic delay: http://www.interruptor.ch/vst_overview.shtml
Link to Kjaerjus' classic series delay: http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/classic-delay.php
Once you work this way - by note value link to host tempo, you will not go back to calculating these out on a calculator and entering ms values. I'm an engineer, I like calculating things, but only when necessary to do a better job. In this case, there's no advantage calculating manually when tools are available to do that work for you and allow you to think musically rather than computationally right out of the box.
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Whatever, I'm quite certain that development knows of the issue, James Chandler Jr. told us as much during beta testing last year. Has to do with a timing issue and certain of those types of plugins is all I know or remember right now.
--Mac
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Oh - yes, we're aware of the timing issue with Jamstix. Hopefully we'll be able to support that feature.
Andrew
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Andrew, I appreciate the problem tha must create for you guys. It is probabily a pain when a few yell over some plug that does not work. I am glad you want to solve it. One point i would like to make on this is, it is not just jamstix. I have several other VSTis that do not work for the same reason. So this issue touches more than jamstix users. Having said that we know you are aware, and hope it gets resolved. We appriate your product and your close attention to the users. Rob
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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I think they are aalso aware of a few other p;l.ugins that need the timing issue resolved.
Besides that, I have a feeling that if they can resolve it for any one or two, they've likely gotten it right for all.
--Mac
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That would be cool for sure, and i do not mean to seem impatient, just adding a thought. I am sure it is a rather large undertaking to make a product like this that has to take into consideration so many different systems and personal setup, not to mention the plethora of personal views and wants. When you take all that into view it is a truely impressive project that is very impressive.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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It's a problem with advertising too, Rob. Every DAW advertises full VST support including PG. When you imply that it's no big deal if a DAW doesn't work with every VST out there, you're missing a very big point. Steinberg invented VST, their plugins are pretty expensive like $3-400 and really add a lot to music creation. How can a company advertise full VST support when they can't work with products from the originator of it, Steinberg? Now, I'm not saying that PG products don't work with any Steinberg VST's, only the ones that require a tempo lock with the host which is a lot of them. Basic instrument plugin's are no problem including high end synths like Sampletank, Garritan or all the cool stuff from Native Instruments.
Even Andrew who as we all know, is very helpful and certainly knowledgeable, missed my point at first when he said every VST he's tried works fine. Sadly, I don't think this is really on the radar screen.
I'm a big booster of PG Music and there's no reason why they can't be on the same playing field as the big boys. This incomplete VST support makes them look a bit second rate to a pro. A hobbyist having fun at home, no problem but pro's need everything to be there and while a lot of them love the Real Track concept, this forces them to still have to work in two similar but separate programs to get a tune done if they really need one of those plugins. This is one reason for all the talk about how do I get my RB tracks into Sonar, Reaper, whatever else. Real Band is pretty close to being a complete DAW that can handle a complex project start to finish and this would be a step in that direction.
Not to mention it's borderline false advertising as it is now.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I just checked my email prior to going to bed and saw this: Read this list of features and think about how much fun it would be to create some very killer drum tracks with this and then realize that gee, it doesn't work in your favorite program, Real Band. See what I mean? I'm going to do the beta but I have to use Sonar. Btw, I just checked the website, this is there so I'm not giving anything away here. Rayzoon is pleased to announce that Jamstix 3 is now in a public beta for Jamstix 2 owners. www.rayzoon.com/jamstix3_beta.htmlWe now also offer a discounted pre-order here for just $39: http://www.rayzoon.com/jamstix3_preorder.htmlJamstix 2 users who are eligible for a free upgrade to Jamstix 3 (purchased after 05/11/2009) will automatically receive a separate mail with download links and license key when Jamstix 3 is released and do not need to buy the pre-order. Jamstix 3 is scheduled for release in Q1 2010. The major changes from version 2 are as follows: CHANGES FROM VERSION 2 larger user interface with improved graphics load-on-demand sample management reduces memory usage, speeds up kit loading and allows kits with higher detail and more articulations new ‘Song Wizard’ allows you to quickly develop a song structure based on your specific needs (Intro, Verse, Chorus, Pre-Chorus etc.) a new top-down virtual kit displays the current kit with correct drum and cymbal sizes and also allows rearranging them, which also affects the limb calculations new styles, new players and a new stock kit new 'Intro' style supporting cymbal intros and drumstick/hihat count-ins new 'Freestyle' offers wide range of genres in one style similar to the Jamstix 1 Free-Jam mode built-in mixer now controls up to 8 stereo channels and also features a new ‘delay’ effect bar editor now supports multi-event selection/editing time signature support has been expanded up to 7/4 (14/8) audio outputs can now be reduced to one (stereo) for minimal CPU usage. the ‘brain’ display now auto-arranges elements horizontally and vertically to use screen space more efficiently the new kit display allows adding/changing and removing sounds via a right-click context menu drum module mode is now activated by depressing the current jam mode button kit piece editing now uses articulations for faster workflow improved ‘alternative sound’ logic for missing kit pieces groove A.I. elements can now be ‘frozen’ in their current state to exclude them from re-composition as well as ‘hidden’ to reduce cluttering modified styles can now be saved as style ‘presets’ modified drummers can now be saved as drummer ‘presets’ improved groove fill algorithm added ‘Extract From Player’ option to combine elements from multiple players style and player extraction tool now also support composition and play filters added new accent period feature to have accents added in specific bar intervals only Jamstix 3 supports all existing Jamstix 2 styles, players and expansion Paks and can also load Jamstix 2 song, part and bar files
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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jazzmammal
my songwriting pardner has jamstyx.
and yes its a very very nice product , but to imply that rb is second rate in some way
is going too far imho.
everyone kvetching on bout this is a bit much imho.
cos lack of timing support wouldnt stop a true pro from doing a great song.
look how many classic zillion selling songs were done before plug ins.
this is a hot topic to you and many others..and its very understandeable.
i fully understand.
but it wouldnt stop a true pro from doing a great song. imho.
i'm not defending pg. but i feel strongly a true pro AE would be able to do
a great song irrespective.
actually he would prolly use the built in real traks as a guide..
then bring in top session musicians to augment.
it is mainly little guys like you and i that need this.
but there are ways round it.
the big guys have gear coming out their ying yangs ..lol.
retired puter engr....powertracks on amd......NICE !
"what is the black art of audio engineering ?"
my silly songs...motagator.com/bmanning
see my tips in the tips section.
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I don't recall seeing the word, "full" in front of "VST Support" in any of the PGMusic advertising literature.
--Mac
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That is true mac it does not say "full", but saying VST support implies that it works with VST technology. Another point is that no host works with every plugin perfectly, or even at all. But this is a big issue in that this does not work with a lot of VSTi plugins. I would not go so far as to call PG products second rate, but other than BiaB which as we all know is not a DAW, but a auto accompaniment program, the two DAW programs while very good are hardly ever mentioned in the same conversations as Sonar, Cubase, Protools, and yes even Reaper. Now i understand that PTPA is a low price entry level sort of offering, and that RB is a bundled product with BiaB, and is sort of a new idea, so it has not caught on as of yet compared to these other program. Me personally i use RB almost everyday, but still do not use it to track new songs completely yet. Some of this is due to it still lacking some of the basic VSTi function others have. This would make the product stand up with the others i feel.
I first bought PTPA in version 10, and you might remember that version 11 was when VSTi support came in "fully" Version 10 had DX support, and you were forced to use Edirol VSC or a hardware synth. So VSTi is young here. The same was true with Sonar and especially the MC product they make, which i compare to PTPA. They first added VSTi about three versions ago, and the first offering was with a wrapper, and was a tad buggy. PG says that they do not wrap, but it is native support. So they are closer to a solution that way, and i suspect that it will get done, and have full faith in the developers to solve the riddle.
Development is aimed at Rt and Rd, and this is both innovative and powerful. But "Full" is important as well IMHO due to the fact that no matter how many RTs you have they tend to sound the same a some point due to the fact that they are wave files. Don't get me wrong, i love RTs and RDs. But on some tracks i want a different feel and Jamstix, PS fretted, and some of my other VSTi plugs give me that, and with RB i can't use them fully, and i wish i could.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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A lot of you have seen me brag on Real Band all the time, I love it. It does so many very cool things and is much easier to navigate around too. It needs this but I worry that maybe it simply can't be done for whatever reason, otherwise it would've been by now.
I'm not saying RB is second rate, I'm saying it can be perceived as second rate by very experienced types who have heard of it and decided to check it out.
Manning you missed a big point too when you said that lots of classic songs were produced before plugins. Yes, that's true because the pros had the original hardware devices that cost a ton of money that the plugins are designed to emulate like a hardware delay that locks with the beat. Jamstix is a virtual drummer that I can direct just like a real cat in the studio and btw, it sounds just great too. Same with Steinberg's Virtual Guitarist. Real Band is a great app but if someone already has VG that they paid $400 for, they're going to want to use it doncha think?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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"The Tracks view is possibly the single most powerful addition in 2024 and opens up a new way to edit and generate accompaniments. Combined with the new MultiPicker Library Window, it makes BIAB nearly perfect as an 'intelligent' composer/arranger program."
"MIDI SuperTracks partial generation showing six variations – each time the section is generated it can be instantly auditioned, re-generated or backed out to a previous generation – and you can do this with any track type. This is MAJOR! This takes musical experimentation and honing an arrangement to a new level, and faster than ever."
"Band in a Box continues to be an expansive musical tool-set for both novice and experienced musicians to experiment, compose, arrange and mix songs, as well as an extensive educational resource. It is huge, with hundreds of functions, more than any one person is likely to ever use. Yet, so is any DAW that I have used. BIAB can do some things that no DAW does, and this year BIAB has more DAW-like functions than ever."
Convenient Ways to Listen to Band-in-a-Box® Songs Created by Program Users!
The User Showcase Forum is an excellent place to share your Band-in-a-Box® songs and listen to songs other program users are creating!
There are other places you can listen to these songs too! Visit our User Showcase page to sort by genre, artist (forum name), song title, and date - each listing will direct you to the forum post for that song.
If you'd rather listen to these songs in one place, head to our Band-in-a-Box® Radio, where you'll have the option to select the genre playlist for your listening pleasure. This page has SoundCloud built in, so it won't redirect you. We've also added the link to the Artists SoundCloud page here, and a link to their forum post.
We hope you find some inspiration from this amazing collection of User Showcase Songs!
Congratulations to the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
We've just announced the 2023 User Showcase Award Winners!
There are 45 winners, each receiving a Band-in-a-Box 2024 UltraPAK! Read the official announcement to see if you've won.
Our User Showcase Forum receives more than 50 posts per day, with people sharing their Band-in-a-Box songs and providing feedback for other songs posted.
Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
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Forums66
Topics81,590
Posts734,779
Members38,501
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Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
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