OK, so you've been using BIAB to create backing tracks for solo gigs. The question of how to deliver the trax arises occasionally. Here are a few old ways, plus a new one I just discovered (at the end)
1) some people use a laptop and deliver the tracks directly from BIAB or their DAW of preference.
Advantages of using BIAB or a DAW: ... BIAB is made to emulate live players by making changes on the fly. ... with BIAB or RB You have little/no extra processing to do to your files ... with BIAB or RB you can use jukebox in conjunction with a USB foot pedal for hands free operation ... with any DAW you can embed MIDI commands in the file to control gear (assuming your gear is MIDI controllable) ... you can set the song up to include lyrics, chords, sheet music etc... hands free
Disadvantages of using BIAB or a DAW ... requires a computer, and all the setup time associated with that. In venues like open mic where people move on and off the stage very quickly, a computer based deliver would be impractical
2) some people use a tablet, MP3 player or phone to deliver MP3s
Advantages of tablets and phones: ... they are highly portable ... you probably already have one ... there are all sorts of accessories available for mounting them to a mic stand etc ... with some tablet apps you can view chords, lyrics or sheet music ... would work well in venues where you had very little time to set up
Disadvantages: ... no hands free operation that I'm aware of ... depending on app used, probably can't use MIDI to control gear
3) I just discovered that you can use Looping pedals for this purpose too... and the Digitech JamMan Stereo has some useful features:
Advantages:
... if you play guitar, the JamMan fits nicely on your pedal board ... If you don't play guitar, it's small and easy to bring on stage ... it sets up as easily as any pedal ... it stores files in high quality WAV format ... it has stereo outputs in case you want to route L and R to different PA speakers ... the pedal has 4 buttons: PLAY, STOP, NEXT SONG, PREV SONG, which makes delivery totally hands free ... accepts an SD card to allow 16 hours of playback time (or 198 songs, whichever comes first) ... if you like looping pedals, it can also be used that way ... it allows direct recording of songs, or use of a library program that stores and rearranges songs on the unit ... If you prefer stomp boxes, this approach to delivering trax is most compatible with what you already do.
Disadvantages:
... no way to use MIDI to change patches or effects on MIDI compliant gear. ... no way to display sheet music or lyrics
IF, and that's a huge if, I was going to play live again. I would absolutely play WAV files from a tablet and play whatever instrument the song calls for me to play along with it. If you build your sound files correctly, there is no need to play them back in RB. Do your mixing at home. I have had people tell me "Oh, the room changes the sound" and all that yada yada, but no, it doesn't change it enough to matter. This isn't Red Rocks or Hollywood Bowl you are playing with your solo or duo glorified karaoke show, right?
One argument to that is that someone makes a request and you have to scratchpad it out on the fly. Not an issue for me. Unless they are delivering that request in a Masarati to the home they just bought me, Eddie don' do no requests. Eddie will do 85% original music, 15% old classic country covers. (I Fall To Pieces, in a medley with I Can't Help It If I'm Still In Love With You that I call "I Can't Help It If I Still Fall To Pieces", Cold Cold Heart, Old Flames and Old Habits connected, titled "Old Flaming Habits". And oh yes, my CDs are for sale over to my right. I'll even sign the cover for you!
I DO like that idea of using the loop pedal to record, but I wonder about at what level of fidelity it records. Have you actually done this, Pat? Does it sound as good as high sample rate WAV files? I will have to follow your link and read up on that. Besides it's an opportunity to buy a new toy.
Edit: I just did a quick scan of the specs and it appears to use an SD card for storage, so logic says I could record in my studio, dump to an SD, stick that SD in the Looper and just play back data that I know has the fidelity of what I recorded, and just use it as a dedicated playback device. That's kind of what you described. In fact that's exactly what you described. So, the next step in the logic path is whether I would invest $250 for something that would be used as a playback tool, but for nothing else (at least to me), or just use the iPad I already have. Not a level playing field though because everybody has different stuff, methods, and specific end game. As it is I will have days of experimenting and learning how to use the Boss VE-2 harmonizer I just bought to sing harmony for me.
Last edited by eddie1261; 12/15/1808:17 AM.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
I DO like that idea of using the loop pedal to record, but I wonder about at what level of fidelity it records. Have you actually done this, Pat? Does it sound as good as high sample rate WAV files? I will have to follow your link and read up on that.
I have done it. Obviously, playback quality varies with the speakers and device used for amplification. It sounds different through a guitar amp than it does through a PA or the computer's speakers. The ad says "CD quality", which I believe is 16 bit, not 24 bit. But a 16 bit WAV should sound better than the average MP3.
Quote:
Besides it's an opportunity to buy a new toy.
exactly my thinking, Eddie... new toys.. Christmas time.. it all works together to keep the old guys entertained ;-)
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Edit: I just did a quick scan of the specs and it appears to use an SD card for storage, so logic says I could record in my studio, dump to an SD, stick that SD in the Looper and just play back data that I know has the fidelity of what I recorded, and just use it as a dedicated playback device. That's kind of what you described. In fact that's exactly what you described. So, the next step in the logic path is whether I would invest $250 for something that would be used as a playback tool, but for nothing else (at least to me), or just use the iPad I already have. Not a level playing field though because everybody has different stuff, methods, and specific end game. As it is I will have days of experimenting and learning how to use the Boss VE-2 harmonizer I just bought to sing harmony for me.
Regarding the price of $250: I rarely buy music toys at full price. There are just too many kids who buy stuff with daddy's money, then sell it later for a pittance to get cash for the latest video game. Especially looper pedals... lots of people buy them because they look cool, then they quickly realize that looping is a one trick pony that can go bad very quickly and make them look stupid on stage. Find one on Craig's list and make a lowball offer. Chances are the seller just wants to unload it because he isn't thinking outside the box enough to see that the device has a much more interesting use than looping.
side note: the Jam Man supports an SD card, but as a separate purchase. Another side benefit of buying one on Craigs list or ebay is that the previous owner might have already added the SD card, and you basically get it for free.
in the past I have learned songs, and practiced my parts at the computer (sitting down)
Then when I get to band practice or the gig, my muscle memory is confused, because now I'm standing up (maybe not a big deal for other people, but it has been my experience that practicing in the same posture as I'll be playing makes a big difference in repeatability)
The Jam Man makes it very easy to put a bunch of practice songs in order, and step through them while standing in front of my pedal board. That way I can also practice the repetitive motions of stomping on pedals in a timely manner. That might seem like something that doesn't need practice, but to this ol' man every action needs to be choreographed in order to flow seamlessly later on stage. Any pause or moment of confusion throws me a curve that I might not recover from.
So, I'm finding this device to be useful and easy to use. Even if I don't play gigs, its good for recreational practice.
If you build your sound files correctly, there is no need to play them back in RB. Do your mixing at home.
I have to offer a side note to this. When I use RB on a laptop, I DO mix everything down in advance. But there is something to be gained by streaming from a sequencing program: MIDI control of all your gear. It's like having a dedicated sound man.
When I just use stomp boxes, I have to keep notes about the settings and make manual changes between songs...adjusting gain, EQ, reverb, Key for harmonizers, amount of reverb etc etc. There's lots of opportunity to miss something or get it wrong.
With MIDI, you can take all the time you need to get all the settings right once, then save the settings with the sequence. Forever after, all the changes happen magically without me ever having to look down, find the right pedal in a sea of pedalboard madness, and stomp it at exactly the right moment.
I don't mind complication when I have time to think about it leisurely... but on stage I really do like things to happen automatically... and with perfect timing.
Midi can also control stage lighting if you like that sort of thing (I don't)
Goodness.All that! I just have my finished backing tracks on my mp3 player which is in a holder clipped to the mic stand.The cable goes back to the PA mixer.Running order is preset.Any changes can be done on the fly just by pressing Up or Down.It wont play the next one until Im ready and press the little button on the front. :-) Wendy
BiaB2022PLUS,927. every extras pack I can find ;-),Sonar7XL,Win 10
Then when I get to band practice or the gig, my muscle memory is confused, because now I'm standing up (maybe not a big deal for other people, but it has been my experience that practising in the same posture as I'll be playing makes a big difference in repeatability)
Hi Pat,
To someone who is just starting out, that is just SUCH good advice. Many years ago I taught this guy to play guitar until he was good enough to perform. He was offered a place in a band and it was only when he got to the first rehearsal that he realised he didn't have a strap. Someone lent him a strap and then he discovered that he couldn't play standing up! I've also seen people who've rehearsed without a mic, have problems when they can't look at their hands and keep on-mic at the same time.
Hope the gigs are going well. Do you still find time to animate?
Then when I get to band practice or the gig, my muscle memory is confused, because now I'm standing up (maybe not a big deal for other people, but it has been my experience that practising in the same posture as I'll be playing makes a big difference in repeatability)
Hi Pat,
To someone who is just starting out, that is just SUCH good advice. Many years ago I taught this guy to play guitar until he was good enough to perform. He was offered a place in a band and it was only when he got to the first rehearsal that he realised he didn't have a strap. Someone lent him a strap and then he discovered that he couldn't play standing up! I've also seen people who've rehearsed without a mic, have problems when they can't look at their hands and keep on-mic at the same time.
That sounds like my own learning curve!
Quote:
Hope the gigs are going well. Do you still find time to animate?
Cheers, ROG.
I stopped accepting gigs a while ago because my fingers were splitting, which made it too painful to play guitar solos. I had a couple of gigs in a row where the finger tips were split and bleeding, but I tried to bluff my way through anyway. It was embarrassing to play badly so I pulled up the brakes hoping to resolve the issue with my fingers. Diet helps somewhat. They are good enough now that I am gearing up again to play.
I have time to animate, I just don't do it. In time I'll get back to it, but lately I've been more interested in other things.
Goodness.All that! I just have my finished backing tracks on my mp3 player which is in a holder clipped to the mic stand.The cable goes back to the PA mixer.Running order is preset.Any changes can be done on the fly just by pressing Up or Down.It wont play the next one until Im ready and press the little button on the front. :-) Wendy
This is similar to what I use, a SONY MP3/WAV digital player/recorder about eight years old. But yours sounds like the controls are more foolproof. Sometimes when I perform at a show the sound person pushes the play button. Some of them have trouble doing this (don't say it). What model MP3 player are you using?
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
I wouldn't use a sequencing program to play live BECAUSE of the tracks that offer variables, where a prerecorded WAV never changes, notes never hang, etc. Plus I am lazy and if I can walk in with a mixer, 2 powered speakers and an iPad, I am happy. A guitar, a keyboard, a mic, a stand, and a bag of cables. One trip on a dolly. Boom.
All moot though since my plans are that I will never play live again. I just want to write songs.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023? 2. Send it to us.
I agree with Pat about Craig's List. Don't overlook DJ equipment there as well. My Son in law gave me some gear when he sold off his DJ business and one piece was hardware single rack sonic enhancer with bass boost that I don't recall the brand and model at the moment but can get the info off the unit if anyone is interested. It creates and restores harmonics to MP3 files and it does up the sound quality at a noticeable level.
The other unit is a dedicated dual SD player. It has big buttons and knobs designed to be used in the dark environment of live gigs. The model I have is discontinued (except for places like ---- Craig's List) but here is the old web page description.
I do a few solo gigs at senior homes and I use a Jam Man. Here's what I do.
I play standards from the 30's through the 60's. The gig lasts an hour, so I don't need as many songs as some of you would. I have the song order set and I don't have to take requests. I create the songs on BB and mix them to the looper.
I run two outs from the looper to two channels on my mixer. I could just as easily make it one channel.
The SD cards work great. Also, having the looper and being able to change songs with my foot (Loop Up)allows me to keep eye contact with the audience.
If I had to do 3 or 4 hours and take requests, I would do it with a tablet or laptop. But the looper is more convenient than hunting for the next song. And I don't have to take my hands off my guitar or turn around.
As you know Pat, I mix all my backing tracks at home in a DAW, save as a WAV file, compress as a high quality mp3 file, and use a laptop on stage.
Finished songs vs BiaB: Although BiaB plays the track differently every time it has a lot of ragged endings and if you can't add song specific licks to a BiaB track very easily
WAV or mp3 files vs live synth tracks: With WAV or mp3 files there is less to go wrong on the gig. Two computers loaded with your audio files and your gig is fail-safe.
Laptop vs tablet or iPod type player: With a laptop, the keyboard is always present so calling up the next song on the spur of the moment is instant. Type a couple or few letters, hit enter and the song starts. If the dance floor is full and I need another fast one, a 5 second delay between songs is too long. With the keyboard always present, I can go to the next song instantly.
MP3 vs WAV files: I back up my almost 600 backing tracks to the cloud. 192mbps mp3 files take about 10 minutes to upload, WAV take forever. Plus they take up much less room than WAV files in the cloud. But the cloud is an off-site backup. There is a lot of work in my backing tracks, if a fire, tsunami, tornado or whatever happens at my home, all my work won't be lost.
Many years ago, I used to feed sequences on the gig into a rack of hardware synths. This worked fine until one of the synths failed on the gig. Software synths can crash too. Fortunately as long as I didn't touch the rack of synths, the synth would work, if it got jarred it would boot up again, reading samples from a floppy disk.
That's when I went computer with mp3 files on a laptop. Since 2002 I've had 2 computer failures and I gig for a living. In both cases I switched the USB->AUDIO interface to the always up and running spare computer and continued the gig without a glitch.
There is more than one right way to do this, and since gigging as a duo with my own generated backing tracks since 1985, this is the way that works best for me.
I do a few solo gigs at senior homes and I use a Jam Man. Here's what I do.
I play standards from the 30's through the 60's. The gig lasts an hour, so I don't need as many songs as some of you would. I have the song order set and I don't have to take requests. I create the songs on BB and mix them to the looper.
I run two outs from the looper to two channels on my mixer. I could just as easily make it one channel.
The SD cards work great. Also, having the looper and being able to change songs with my foot (Loop Up)allows me to keep eye contact with the audience.
If I had to do 3 or 4 hours and take requests, I would do it with a tablet or laptop. But the looper is more convenient than hunting for the next song. And I don't have to take my hands off my guitar or turn around.
Hope this gives you some ideas.
2b
Hey, 2B... glad to hear that somebody else has discovered the Jam Man as a delivery device for trax! Based on the manual, they clearly had this use in mind when they designed the product. I find it interesting that I couldn't find ANY youtube videos showing the product being used for any purpose other than real-time loop creation. I'm curious to know how you made the decision to use a looping pedal in this way.
The JamMan Stereo Looper is certainly a quality. The specifications are of high level: the 24-bit conversion and the sampling frequency at 44.1kHz are a guarantee. The SD memory card extends the possibilities of the JamMan Stereo
24 bit yep
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
If you normally lug around any 19” rack gear you might want to consider something like this that I have just bought. Cost £169 in uk from DV 247 also avl on amazon etc. This is a 1u 19” rack digital Audio recorder records direct to SD card or usb stick, I use this for external rendering of my biab when I am using external synths or my Yamaha Clavinover . You could use this to play your backing tracks direct from SD or USB sorted into sets as continues play of a folder is allowed be it a hidden command (there are a few of them) Product description The DRP-1 from Gemini is a standalone digital rackmountable recorder that allows you to record and playback from one convenient device. Its single rackspace design ensures discreet integration into your rack setup, making this handy recording device ideal for DJs, musicians, bars, clubs, schools, houses of worship and anywhere else high-quality audio recording is a must. The DRP-1 is also great for front-of-house applications, even as a backup recorder for the most sophisticated FOH setups.
For true recording versatility, the DRP-1 features a USB port and SD card slot, allowing you to record directly to a thumb drive or memory card. And to ensure your file format suits your specific recording needs, the DRP-1 gives you the option to record in a variety of MP3 formats or in WAV at 44.1kHz/16-bit. For added flexibility, you can also choose to record in Stereo or Mono mode. And once your recording is complete, it's easy to download the file to your PC or Mac - just use the included USB cable to connect the DRP-1 to your computer, or simply eject your media storage device and hook it up to your computer directly.
To ensure total connecting convenience, the DRP-1 has a host of inputs and outputs, allowing you to hook up microphones, keyboards and other electronic instruments with ease. Or, if you're recording a full band, go direct from your mixer and capture true soundboard audio. On the back, the unit features a stereo RCA line input, stereo RCA line output, XLR/¼-inch combo mic input and balanced XLR outputs. On the front, the recorder provides ¼-inch stereo line inputs, a ¼-inch mic input and a ¼-inch headphone jack with dedicated volume control.
Navigating through files and folders on the DRP-1 is easy thanks to its large, bright full-color LCD screen and Search jog wheel. During recording, the display screen indicates information like file format, track time, file number and amount of space left on the SD card. Just a thought
If you battle with remembering chords and lyrics (like me) another option is to use your the Wav files rendered from biab or whatever daw and make play along karaoke style mp4 video files with scrolling chords and lyrics.
You can then copy these over to your phone or iPad and mount that on your mic stand. Then you have everything you need at your fingers right in front of you.
My YouTube channel has hundreds of these types of videos and people absolutely love them... they do take quite a bit of setup work though so if you have a huge repertoire or are doing some live jamming then it won’t suit you. I am also not sure if the sound quality of the mp4 files matches up to the other methods mentioned here. J
LyricLab A.I assisted chords and lyric app. Export lyrics and import directly into Band-in-a-Box 2024. https://lyriclab.net Play-along with songs you know and love, download SGU files https://playiit.com/
Pat,I was playing in a duo. I was playing bass lines on my 7 string but my partner wanted me to take some leads and keep the bass line going. I had always been intrigued by loopers and I had a little extra cash, so I thought this would work.
That duo fell apart. When I started doing senior homes, the Jam Man was the easiest way for me to take my backing tracks. It works better than the BB Jukebox function and it is easier to find songs if I preset the order. That's how I did it.
You can put a bunch of songs on SD and you have some memory on the unit itself for requests you know you are going to get. I carry a list of song locations in my song book in case anyone wants something I hadn't planned on.
One other thing is that I don't have to squint at a screen to find my next song and I don't have to take my hands off my guitar.
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