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#515115 - 01/04/19 04:37 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deciding on a New Mixer, Which is Best? [Re: MarioD]
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1166
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
MountainSide Offline
Expert

Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 1166
Loc: Lake Keowee, South Carolina
I agree with MarioD on this one. I run 5 "hard" snyths and lots of "soft" synths. All of the "hard" synths feed into a MOTU Midi Express. From my controller keyboard, I can access each "hard" synth and all of my "soft" synths through my DAW tracks with no wiring changes just by assigning each track to a synth. All audio feeds into my MOTU 828 MK3. No external mixer needed.

Jeff
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Win10x64, Intel i7 7700k@4.6Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB current builds, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive Touch, Kontakt 5.8, SampleTank 4.02

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#515128 - 01/04/19 06:17 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deciding on a New Mixer, Which is Best? [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Houston, Texas
cooltouch Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Houston, Texas
Charley, I bow to your vastly superior experience in this arena, but honestly I expected such a response from you. One thing that I neglected to mention in my previous post is all those mixers save one came out of churches. So no smoke residue and probably fairly low dust environments. Makes me wonder what they upgraded to. Heh. Probably XR12/16/18/32.

My DAW is built around Cakewalk Sonar Platinum (now Cakewalk by Bandlab). I have a free copy of Studio One v3, which I actually like quite a bit. It has some distinct user-friendly advantages over Cakewalk. But I frequently use Cakewalk's musical notation window for composition and editing, whereas Studio One lacks any musical notation capability. Yes, one can purchase Notion v6 (or later?) and use it as a rewire device to export musical notation into SO, but why do I need to go to all the extra expense? And not only that, I don't find Notion particularly easy to use. So I'll keep muddling forward with Cakewalk, and hopefully I can fix this problem I'm having with it not wanting to play with my external MIDI devices.

I guess it's time to go get my ducats lined up and think about who and where to purchase the XR12 from.
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Michael

My Music:
https://soundcloud.com/michaelmcbroom/albums

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#515130 - 01/04/19 06:37 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deciding on a New Mixer, Which is Best? [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4903
Loc: South Carolina
Charlie Fogle Offline
Veteran

Registered: 04/07/13
Posts: 4903
Loc: South Carolina
Good luck with your decision. My guess is the channel count of those mixers in a church setting, the need was likely for more channels/routing than less so I'll guess the upgrade to X32. The X32 provides 16 busses/monitors as well as Matrix's for streaming and broadcasting. Use of the Scenes/Snippet/Cues are also a highly desired for churches that do a lot of productions. My X32 went to the Church I attend. I still get to program it and fix all the 'issues' with what button to push on occasion.

I think choosing the XR12 is a great choice for you and that you'll immediately see a noticeable improvement in the tracks you record. Being able to eliminate a guitar hum (gate) and compression to vocals as they're recorded, apply a de esser during recording, slight EQ - all without any latency or strain on your CPU will give you cleaner tracks to work with and help tame and control your ambient room environment. You'll not have to take time in your DAW working to fix things from the start before you even begin to mix because they will no longer be there. You'll continue to get the benefit of that great Delta interface and I think you're good for another 17 years of great recording in your home studio. I'm a bit jealous....
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#515164 - 01/04/19 08:40 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deciding on a New Mixer, Which is Best? [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 715
Loc: West coast
chulaivet1966 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 715
Loc: West coast
Originally Posted By: cooltouch
Mario, the fact that you're using a MIDI hub got me to thinking. Maybe I should look into getting one too. I have a couple of Midisport 2x2s and a Roland adapter, which might work okay, but to be honest, I've had some difficulty getting any of them to work in my DAW. Dunno what the problem is, but I suspect it's a configuration issue. Originally I thought that one of my instruments was defective, but when I had the same problem with another instrument, that indicated to me the problem lies elsewhere. One of these days I'll figure out where that elsewhere is.


That was my thought when you had mentioned your issue.
I'm curious if using multiple midi patch bays is problematic more often then not.
I would think those configuration fur balls would be long addressed/resolved by now.
The 'chaining' of multiple midi patch bays is just another "fuzzy" factor for me.

EDIT: when I'd commented that all midi devices may not be able to be chained for some reason?
My currently chained modules have 1/4" stereo analog Ins & Outs which is how how I chain them up....I've never had luck using the 5pin din outs/thru's to chain my modules.
Manifestation of user ignorance and ability to configure correctly.....absolutely.

I also have a JV880 (not that I actually need it with what I currently use)that is not in the chain because it does not have 1/4" inputs.
I did give the 5pin din configuration path a try using the midi ins/outs/thru's when I got the JV880 but no luck and much frustration.

But....everything has been working well with my current system now so you won't find me trying to fix a working toaster.

Carry on....



Edited by chulaivet1966 (01/04/19 09:24 AM)

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#515179 - 01/04/19 09:19 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deciding on a New Mixer, Which is Best? [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Houston, Texas
cooltouch Offline
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Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Houston, Texas
chulaivet, actually I have only one Midisport 2x2 active at this time. The other is a spare, as is that Roland adapter. I bought the Roland because somebody convinced me that the Midisport was defective, but I have the same problem with it too. I'm pretty sure the Midisport is ok, because it used to work just fine. Which has led me to wonder if maybe a Windows update may have caused the problem I'm having. Cuz one day it was working fine and then the next day it wasn't.

If it is a windows compatibility issue, I don't hold out a lot of hope. M-Audio's most recent driver for the Midisports is already several years old. But I must also remind myself that I had the same problem with the Roland too. So I'm hoping it was user error of some unknown type. Just haven't figured out yet what it might be.
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#515193 - 01/04/19 09:58 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deciding on a New Mixer, Which is Best? [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 715
Loc: West coast
chulaivet1966 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 715
Loc: West coast
Originally Posted By: cooltouch
If it is a windows compatibility issue, I don't hold out a lot of hope. M-Audio's most recent driver for the Midisports is already several years old. But I must also remind myself that I had the same problem with the Roland too. So I'm hoping it was user error of some unknown type. Just haven't figured out yet what it might be.


That got me slightly curious.

I'll hold out some hope that your issue is a configuration one that can be resolved.

DELETED LINK: that was not the M-Audio site....and I don't trust those third party driver sites....sorry for my haste.

My DAW is still on Win7 so I've had no PMO's (pvss me off's :))

Do update us on your quest....carry on.


Edited by chulaivet1966 (01/04/19 10:06 AM)

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#515241 - 01/04/19 01:21 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deciding on a New Mixer, Which is Best? [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11913
Loc: Hamlin NY
MarioD Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 11913
Loc: Hamlin NY
chulaivet, download the driver for your Midisports. Then delete the current driver and install the one you downloaded.

https://m-audio.com/support/download/drivers/midisport-windows-driver-v6.1.3

Occasionally updates messes up drivers and you have to reinstall them.

In my DAW my MOTU midi express 128 shows up in the MIDI input and output listings as express1, express 2 etc. Each one is independent of the others. This should be the same in BiaB and RB. Yours may read midisport1, midisport2 etc.
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#515252 - 01/04/19 01:56 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deciding on a New Mixer, Which is Best? [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Houston, Texas
cooltouch Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Houston, Texas
Welp, I just ordered a Behringer XR12. Time to start making room for it in my rack and figure out the best way to wire it into my system.
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Michael

My Music:
https://soundcloud.com/michaelmcbroom/albums

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#515267 - 01/04/19 02:41 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deciding on a New Mixer, Which is Best? [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 715
Loc: West coast
chulaivet1966 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 715
Loc: West coast
MarioD
Thanks....appreciate the link.

cooltouch
Excellent....you do realize some pics will be in order. smile

Back to it....

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#515374 - 01/04/19 10:50 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deciding on a New Mixer, Which is Best? [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 170
Paj Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 170
XR12 or something similar (which everybody makes now) + control surface (say "Thank you, Mario.")


You just can't beat the price-features-routing-performance-footprint quotient for these mixers. If you already have a touchscreen system, you may not even need an additional control surface.


Paj
8^)

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#515403 - 01/05/19 04:47 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deciding on a New Mixer, Which is Best? [Re: Paj]
Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Houston, Texas
cooltouch Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: Paj
XR12 or something similar (which everybody makes now) <...>


Hm, while this might be generally true, I did do quite a bit of research into these types of mixers and I found that the XR12 was rather unique in terms of value for its price point. The only other mixer I've found close to the XR12's price point is the Soundcraft Ui12, which actually costs more, and is one of those 12-channel mixers that really isn't. The XR12 has 12 inputs, all of which are available as 1/4" TRS, whereas the Soundcraft only has eight inputs near as I can tell, four of which are 1/4" TRS. I need those 12 TRS inputs.

I plan to rack-mount this mixer. The XR12 comes with rack ears. The Soundcraft has an odd-looking form factor and I doubt it is rack-mountable. Even if it were, this would make certain features, like its USB inputs, inaccessible.


Edited by cooltouch (01/05/19 04:53 AM)
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My Music:
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#517305 - 01/12/19 03:37 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deciding on a New Mixer, Which is Best? [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Houston, Texas
cooltouch Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Houston, Texas
Well, I just thought I'd post a follow up to all this. The XR12 arrived a couple days ago. I spent most of yesterday getting frustrated trying to set it up with my DAW, but today, with the helpful coaching from a couple of folks over at the Behringer forums, I was finally able to get it to sync with my DAW. I'm playing around with a mic -- one of my trusty Shure SM94 condensers -- on the four XLR channel inputs and it sounds pretty good, once I had the gate configured for vocals. Prior to that, it was way down in volume. Now the volume is great. Tweaked the EQ some for my voice to sound its best and I'm all set to record voiceovers! . . . or some such.

Ok, well I guess it's time to say goodbye to my trusty old Mackie 1202VLZ Pro. It's been good knowing ya old feller, but it's time to move on.


Edited by cooltouch (01/12/19 03:40 PM)
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My Music:
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#517601 - 01/13/19 04:48 PM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deciding on a New Mixer, Which is Best? [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4680
Loc: South Carolina
RobH Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 4680
Loc: South Carolina
The true advantage of using an audio interface over a mixer is usually clarity. Also you mentioned mixing in the mixer and not the DAW. If you mix in the mixer and the send to the DAW a stereo mix you can’t change it as much. Maybe some overall EQ, or compression but if you record each track dry to he DAW then you can mix and master with greater options. Maybe the drum track or tracks need a certain fix the is different from the bass, or piano or guitar panning has far more options in the DAW.

If you Mike drums or have more than one guitar or several vocal tracks each group can have their own fax buss. But if you do all that in the mixer you are stuck with that. What ever our decide on make sure it gives you simple but many options for mix down and mastering. As Charlie said a good mixer with multiple in/out can rock. Here’s the $64 question is this to track just you or a group of players?
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#517907 - 01/15/19 01:26 AM [Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)] Re: Deciding on a New Mixer, Which is Best? [Re: cooltouch]
Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Houston, Texas
cooltouch Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Houston, Texas
Hey Rob, this is getting hooked up to my DAW and, for the foreseeable future, at least, it's just gonna be me. I use my DAW for music composition primarily. Most of the time I use MIDI instrumentation to flesh out my compositions. The only reason why I'm even hooking up the external instruments I have is because they're all MIDI and I'll need to get their audio into the mix. I don't need to have them all hooked up at once -- this is just the way I'm used to doing it. In fact, I'm finding that I'm two channels short of 1/4" hookups to get all of them hooked up.

Just today I was kicking around the idea of keeping my 12-channel Mackie and using it for some or all of those instruments, so I'd still have some room on the XR12. But then I remind myself that I don't need them all hooked up at once.
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Summary of changes for build 625 (March 19, 2019):

This is a cumulative update patch, which works from any 2019 build. VST DAW Plugin update to 1.13.5 (Mar 7) is included in this patch.

Improved: Faster program bootup.
Improved: The SongPicker has sorting added. Each column can be sorted in forward or reverse order by clicking on the column.
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Fixed: Band-in-a-Box might prompt user to re-activate their license. Users who are still getting a message such as "program can only used on one computer" at bootup, can repair their license with this small .exe.
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Fixed: RealDrums picker might crash if no RealDrums are selected.
Fixed: The letter R cannot be used in note based lyrics.
Fixed: Audio base tempo would not be applied until song was reopened or Audio Edit window open prior to playback.
Fixed: The SongPicker displayed a dark grey background after rebuilding.
Fixed: Various minor typos in StylePicker and Titles database as reported.
Improved: LD harmonica RealTracks will now work better over major chord progressions.
Fixed: Look Ma More MIDI .SGU demos were not loading from StylePicker.
Improved: Strings, Rhythm PopCountry Sw 120: gaps are filled more appropriately.
Fixed: RockEven16 Drums sometimes played an ending bar in the middle of the song in the B section.
Fixed: Various RealDrums transcriptions had issues with bars displaying incorrectly.
Added: RealDrums transcriptions
Fixed: Guitar, Electric, Background ModernFunkSingleNotesBob Ev16 11 transcription partially incorrect.
Fixed: _SONGBRD demo was at an incorrect tempo.
Added: RealTracks Transcriptions
Fixed: Guitar, Acoustic, Rhythm FastPowerRockQuinn Ev 160 - some chords incorrectly played.
Fixed: Synth, BellPad, Rhythm 80sPopMelodic Ev 120 was not playing back properly.
Fixed: Bass, Electric, PeruFestejo68 Sw 120 now plays m7b5 chords more accurately.
Fixed: Bass, Electric, PunkFuzzPicked8ths Ev 165 and Bass, Electric, PunkFuzzPickedA-B Ev 165 were playing a few incorrect chords.
Improved: Several acoustic strumming guitar audition demos.
Fixed: Guitar, Electric, Rhythm ModernPopHardHighMurray Ev16 075 was playing incorrect chords in certain instances.
Fixed: Charango, Rhythm AndesHuayno Ev16 085 and Electric, AndesHuaynoA-B Ev16 085 were not playing all chords
Fixed: A few RealStyles (e.g. _longing.sty) previously had parts on the melody track, and would therefore delete any existing melodies.
Fixed: _Arabian demo incompatible with localized BB versions.

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Video - Fold & Unfold Your Song Form in Band-in-a-Box® for Windows

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Band-in-a-Box® 2019 for Windows Build 623 Now Available

An update is available for Band-in-a-Box® Version 2019!

Learn more about this update & download it here.

This is a cumulative update patch, which works from any 2019 build. VST DAW Plugin update to 1.13.5 is included in this patch.

Summary of changes for Band-in-a-Box® Version 2019 build 623 (March 7, 2019):

Fixed: The SongPicker might crash if clicking on a control when there is no song selected.
Fixed: Changing the Soloist track type to Drums did not work.
Fixed: Rendering errors with styles that had long medley & multi track names.
Fixed: The MIDI Monitor and Drums Window would not display in the language selected.
Improved: The VSTSynthFont64 performs faster when reverb is enabled.
Fixed: Holds not working properly for Piano, Electric, Rhythm Fusion styles
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Summary of fixes for the VST DAW Plugin (1.13.5)

Fixed: Quiet right channel when testing audio in standalone plugins.
Fixed: DAW sync issue in Cakewalk.
Fixed: DAW sync issue with non 4-bar song form.
Added: Option in preferences for plugin playback in sync with DAW.
Removed: Option in preferences to Keep BBW Open (no longer needed).
Added: Audio playback through DAW driver (sync option will highlight track in red when clicked).
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